Volkswagen Touareg R Rendered; Will Use Diesel V8, Likely Hit U.S. by 2012

TDIMeister

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Volkswagen Touareg R Rendered; Will Use Diesel V8, Likely Hit U.S. by 2012


A little late to be added to the News, but better than never.

The awesome V-10 TDI, which reminded us of a powerful marine diesel more than anything else, was uprated from the 313-hp base variation; all iterations have since been discontinued because they couldn’t meet current emissions standards. But there is a worthy successor to this engine: The Audi-engineered, 340-hp, 4.2-liter diesel V-8 diesel. That TDI is available in the European Touareg, but it isn’t likely to come here in that spec. Instead, we hear this engine will be fortified for use in the upcoming Touareg R, and our suspicion is that output will be somewhere close to 380 hp. It will put every other diesel in this category to shame—with the exception of Audi’s titanic, 500-hp, 6.0-liter twelve-cylinder, which powers the €130,000-plus Q7 V-12 TDI. But that monstrous Audi isn’t for sale here, and so the VW will rule the diesel-UV roost in the U.S.
 

Dunno513

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As always... more power output for the US market... (they must have read the latest obesity reports) :rolleyes:

Can't wait to see the MSRP on this overpriced VW....
 

T_D_I_POWER

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Audi needs to install its 4.2 V8 TDI in R8 for production. That would be one blast car to drive.

Btw, isn't the 4.2 V8 TDI the most powerfull production 8-cyl. Diesel engine?
 

mysql

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You sure a v8 tdi would be a blast to drive in a sports car? The small powerband, slow "throttle" response, and low rpms seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
 

NoJoke

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Audi needs to install its 4.2 V8 TDI in R8 for production. That would be one blast car to drive.

Btw, isn't the 4.2 V8 TDI the most powerfull production 8-cyl. Diesel engine?

If they do that and its convertable...I'll buy it!!!
 

algaediesel

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You sure a v8 tdi would be a blast to drive in a sports car? The small powerband, slow "throttle" response, and low rpms seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
Haven't tdi and similar engines powered most of the Le Mans winners of the last few years? I recall drivers raving about the copious amounts of power and tourque, while at the same time having a huge fuel consumption advantage over the gas powered cars they were destroying. The power band is so wide with the diesels that the transmission can be run with fewer gears (and is thus far more reliable) than the gas engined competitors. Sounds like exactly what I want.
 
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nicklockard

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As always... more power output for the US market... (they must have read the latest obesity reports) :rolleyes:

Can't wait to see the MSRP on this overpriced VW....

Agreed. Enough is enough. What is with the obsessive peen envy of the American consumer?
 

mysql

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Haven't tdi and similar engines powered most of the Le Mans winners of the last few years? I recall drivers raving about the copious amounts of power and tourque, while at the same time having a huge fuel consumption advantage over the gas powered cars they were destroying. The power band is so wide with the diesels that the transmission can be run with fewer gears (and is thus far more reliable) than the gas engined competitors. Sounds like exactly what I want.
You want a V12 twin turbocharged diesel engine in a prototype vehicle? I have a sneaking suspicion that you aren't going to be getting anything remotely like that in your wagon.
 

LRTDI

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RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
If VW kept the diesels under $35k people would buy them. V10s and $55k just seems nutz to me.
 

thebigarniedog

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If VW kept the diesels under $35k people would buy them. V10s and $55k just seems nutz to me.
It's called brand confusion ..... why would I buy a VW for that price when I can buy an Audi for around the same price? Certainly an Audi is considered a luxury brand, whereas the VW is the German Chevy (except it actually works, unlike most Chevys).

The Toureg is just a purposeless vehicle. The engine is just too damn big, it gets crappy fuel economy, doesn't seat enough people and it is way over-priced for the VW label. At least it looks like an easy vehicle to service though :eek:.
 

wolfskin

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The Toureg is just a purposeless vehicle. The engine is just too damn big, it gets crappy fuel economy, doesn't seat enough people and it is way over-priced for the VW label. At least it looks like an easy vehicle to service though :eek:.
I'm no fan of SUVs in general, but in all fairness, as SUVs go, the Touareg (btw, is that word really impossible to spell right?) is a pretty reasonable proposition.

In Europe it's available with the 3.0L V6 TDI, or even the R5 TDI, both of which give it quite reasonable FE, it's a pretty capable off-road vehicle, a rather good tower of caravans, small boats and such, and when it's not loaded up with a bunch of expensive glitz, it's actually affordable compared to other SUVs.

Now when you spec it out with a V8/V10 engine and the interior of a luxury cruiseliner, I agree, It stops making sense pretty fast.
 

T_D_I_POWER

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You sure a v8 tdi would be a blast to drive in a sports car? The small powerband, slow "throttle" response, and low rpms seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
It's all in the gearing to take full advantage of the monsterous Diesel torque. To put things in perspective, both R10/R15 TDI engines have only 5500 rpm limit, and 5-spd gearbox.

The critics have said before that Diesel powered engines with its narrow power band etc. won't ever win any FIA sanctioned international races and championships. Yet Audi and Peugeot proved them wrong....As well as Seat TDI in the BTCC proved the critics wrong.

http://www.seatsportuk.co.uk/sport/

I'm pretty sure Audi Sport boys can make it fun and a blast to drive.

If not there's always the 500 bhp V12 TDI with 700+ lb.ft torque

scruber said:
I believe Ford still holds that trophy.
Thanks
 

algaediesel

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You want a V12 twin turbocharged diesel engine in a prototype vehicle? I have a sneaking suspicion that you aren't going to be getting anything remotely like that in your wagon.
The point of my first post was that TDI engines can compete with gas engines of similar spec at very high levels of performance. I don't want the V12 TDI in an R8, I want the V8 TDI. That would be realistic and viable. The prototype V12 would surely tear an R8 appart! My response was to your implication that the existing gas engine is the better alternative in the R8. From what I've seen of the numbers, the "mass" produced TDI V8 is certainly worthy and in my opinion, preferable.

As an aside, Supercars are dead if gas engines are the only alternative. They have no chance of meeting future Euro C02 restrictions. According to "Fifth Gear", even the tiny Lotus Elise, in current form, is putting out nearly twice the C02 that is proposed for the near future. Scarey stuff for segment. I don't have or really want a super car (my dream is a pristine Vanagon Westfalia Syncro), but I love seeing and hearing them on the road once in a while.
 

TDIMeister

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Yup, an R8 V8 TDI is a completely feasible idea, much more so than the V12 demonstrator was, and would be an awesome interpretation of a Diesel supercar.
 

pleopard

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When looking at specific power output (output per liter of displacement), the 4.2L V8 TDI puts the Ford Powerstroke to shame.
 

Scott_DeWitt

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When looking at specific power output (output per liter of displacement), the 4.2L V8 TDI puts the Ford Powerstroke to shame.
The PD170 16V has even better power to displacement than the 4.2 tdi, the 1.9 Pd160 is a close second to the 170.
 

DnA Diesel

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no more...
The PD170 16V has even better power to displacement than the 4.2 tdi, the 1.9 Pd160 is a close second to the 170.
Both of which are still less than the specific power output of BMW's 3.0L 335d, either in Euro-spec or N.A.-spec trim. I am surprised at how much lower in specific power the Merc is putting out than the other Germans...it's right down into pick-up truck territory? :eek:

BMW 740d N57 (Euro) - 306hp/3.0L = 102.0 hp/L
BMW X3 23d N47 (Euro) - 204hp/2.9L = 102.0 hp/L
BMW M57TU2D30 (Euro) - 286hp/3.0L = 95.3 hp/L
BMW 335d/X5 35d M57Y (N.A.) - 265hp/3.0L = 88.3 hp/L
MB BlueTec (Euro) - 265 hp / 3.0L = 88.3 hp/L
VW PD170 - 170 hp / 2.0L = 85.0 hp/L (out of production?)
VW PD160 - 160 hp / 1.9L = 84.2 hp/L (out of production?)
VW 4.2TDI - 340 hp / 4.2L = 81.0 hp/L
VW 3.0TDI (Euro) - 240 hp / 3.0L = 80.0 hp/L
Audi 3.0TDI - 225 hp / 3.0L = 75.0 hp/L
VW 3.0TDI (N.A.) - 221 hp / 3.0L = 73.7 hp/L
Audi 2.0 TDI - 140 hp / 2.0L = 70 hp/L
MB BlueTec (N.A.) - 210 hp / 3.0L = 70.0 hp/L
GM D-Max - 397 hp / 6.6L = 60.2 hp/L
Ford 6.7PS - 400 hp / 6.7L = 59.7 hp/L
Dodge Cummins - 350 hp / 6.7L = 52.2 hp/L
 
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TDIMeister

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The newest euro BMW x35d and x23d (x being general series and not specific models) are now making over 100 HP/L at 306 and 204 HP (DIN), respectively. They use VNT turbos for the HP (small) stage, whereas the older models have WG turbos on both stages.
 

DnA Diesel

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no more...
The newest euro BMW x35d and x23d (x being general series and not specific models) are now making over 100 HP/L at 306 and 204 HP (DIN), respectively. They use VNT turbos for the HP (small) stage, whereas the older models have WG turbos on both stages.
True, TDIMeister, but I didn't add them to the list in fairness because I didn't know if they had gone into full production yet, and were available on the market?

You're right, though...the specific output is astonishing, all the while doing so as an EU 5/6-compliant 'clean diesel.' Not sure if the U.S./Can-spec N57's and N47's, once they hit the shores will still be above 100hp/L with the SCR/DEF gear on them to make them T2B5-compliant. :( <- sad-ish...they're still a blast to drive (I swear they under-rated the 265 hp on the 335d)!

Cheers
D
 

fordt

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Great, another big diesel for the "near future"--I've been trying to buy a diesel Touareg for 2 years now! First the idiots at dealerships let me spec out a 2010 but then find out they can't order it, THEN the "new, lighter" 2011 is supposed to come out and NO dealer has any idea when or where they will show up...!!!
 
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