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Old April 15th, 2018, 08:20   #1
speedy223
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Default BEW rev issue. sluggish past 3000-3200 in high gears advice appreciated

Have a TDI Golf 5 spd 04. BEW PD.

starts instantly. runs along just fine seemingly till you get on it.
if you drive it slow and pokey you wont even notice, get up to 80 in 5th no problem. if you go to floor it you lose RPMs. the higher the gear the more noticeable it seems.

3rd gear if you accel slowly you can make it up to 3500. 4th 3200 or lower. if you floor it it pretty much loses get up and go at 3000 period no matter the gear after 2nd.

no check engine lights.

i have had them go into limp mode before and am familiar with it. this is not limp mode, no key reset required, just wont behave under heavy load.

i have vag com. i checked boost specified and actual on a few runs spot on.

i checked the MAF on block 3 handily called EGR something and it is spot on. goes up and down as requested. well over 500 into the 800's i believe but again spot on when watched on a graph.

i bought car as is with this condition,got a nice deal. used to ALH's , do have one BEW but it has always behaved itself so i have no troubleshooting experience with it per say and am not a mech by trade.
i would like to learn how to check stuff without just throwing parts at it so any troubleshooting advice is greatly appreciated.

i plan to change fuel filter even though supposedly it was just done by PO.
any other suggestions...

last but not least since fueling seems suspect is there any way to verify this or do you just have to pull lift pump to check screen and change filters 3 or 4 times till you know they are good. i guess i mean is there fuel pressure specs and a way to check a car only symptomatic under load.

thanks in advance for any advice. again, i am trying to up my knowledge of troubleshooting rather than just throw parts at it so if there is something i need to check or verify please let me know.
either way any advice is appreciated even in the throwing parts line if it just helps me narrow down on the problem.

vagcom doesnt seem to have any measures that address fueling under load. if it does i would love to learn how to check it. still a novice user of it.

updated to say that it wont even redline parked in neutral. pegs at about 4k floored.

Last edited by speedy223; April 15th, 2018 at 11:30. Reason: adding info
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Old April 15th, 2018, 11:33   #2
speedy223
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checked the cam. seems ok but does have one worn lobe so will be changing it but the lifter looks ok all other lobes have decent chamfer but the second farthest one away from the cam gear is worn till chamfer is down and is slightly misshapen to the eye. lifter looks good.

could that be the cause of my problem? i intend to change it but want to get it running reasonably well before i do unless that is likely to be the problem that is causing it to not rev above 4k at idle or 3000 under load.

also, i noticed that there were white marks on the recently changed belt by PO. possible that it is a tooth off and causing these symptoms since it does appear to be a mark and pray job.

anyway to check without the tools which i dont have in hand yet but will be getting?

will it run a tooth off? any advice appreciated yet again.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 15:52   #3
OlyTDI
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Did you just purchase it? If so, you may be on to something with the TB job.

If you've experienced it working correctly previously and now it is acting up, I'd confirm lift pump working (should hear a whoosh coming from under the rear seats on key turn) and change out the fuel filter. If both are confirmed okay, look elsewhere. Sure sounds like fuel starvation but other than clogged filter, I don't think you can accelerate in a manner that exceeds fuel availability, even if the lift pump is toast.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 19:23   #4
speedy223
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thanks for the reply. here is the continuing update.

Fuel filter: changed. no change whatsoever.

Lift pump makes noise, i pulled it, cleaned the filter, reinstalled it. no change.

Ran a cleaner through it when i changed the filter ( what i refilled it with)

only problem noted so far is the second to last cam lobe (closest to tandem pump, furthest from cam) is worn, lifter under it looks perfect still.

timing belt looks 3k old like PO said but has white mark on it so i think he did a mark and pray type job. (yes i just purchased it, from a guy who said it was done 3k ago and ran fine for 1500 miles then started acting up, didnt ask him who did it, he also said his mechanic said it needed a cam and he didnt want to spend the money on it so he was selling it, got it cheap enough to afford cam/parts and still not do bad and the guy was not dishonest about it needing work at time of sale)

i am just wanting to be sure that one worn cam lobe could cause all of this before i do the job, if it is something else i want to fix that first then do the cam.

any chance tandem pump is failing and how would i verify that? it just seems like a fuel issue but granted have no way of knowing/verifying that just yet.

would one worn cam lobe on a perfect looking lifter cause these symptoms?

would one tooth off run on a BEW PD engine with symptoms noted or would it just not really run at all?

any way to check without TB tools for BEW? i notice there is no timing thing in vag com for a PD engine like an ALH. i have not timed a PD TDI belt but i have done several on an ALH. i will be ordering the PD tools soon but currently only have ALH tools.

any feedback continues to be appreciated. i would really like to learn a bit more as i go along. I plan on changing cam in near future but want to verify it is causing my problem first, i would much rather change it after fixing this problem so i can tell if I did a good job with it easier if that makes sense. seems like a way to create 2 problems unless i can verify that is the issue.

again symptoms are: wont rev past 4k neutral/ clutch in (more like 3800 average) when floored

will drive fine when you slow poke it and you can hit 3500 in 3rd gear if you accelerate slowly

4th and 5th you basically stop at 3k period. can get up to 80 in 5th but sluggish past 2k and if you try to hard you feel it stumble occasionally. it is not limp mode in the usual way, no key reset required, tries to boost the whole time, just wont go. i have experienced overboost triggered limp and this is not that.

actual boost checks out on vag com, actual Maf checks out on vag com. new fuel filter, new tank of fuel, lots of diesel Kleen, lift pump in tank hums, it was pulled and cleaned. no check engine lights. noted to have the worn cam lobe described above with good lifter.

anyone who can shed light or offer ideas is welcomed.

Last edited by speedy223; April 15th, 2018 at 19:33.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 22:26   #5
Wilkins
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BEW Timing is set by the Cam position because the camshaft runs the unit injectors. It’s called torsion value for some reason, do a search and you will find lots of threads. No idea if that is the problem but worth checking out. I think if the timing is far enough out it reads zero though so be careful how you interpret what you see.

For what it’s worth my car ran ok without a lift pump at all.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/PD_...very_check.pdf Is a description of how to troubleshoot PD fuel problems.

Good luck
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Old April 16th, 2018, 05:23   #6
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Hopefully someone else will chime in, but that cam lobe (near the TP) wearing is weird (not saying you're wrong).

I believe it's usually the lobes near the TB that wear badly. That's what I found when mine went anyway.

I agree with Wilkins, that you should do some more trouble shooting, before you start throwing parts at it. Test the tandem pump. Find Dan's post in the BEW specific forum.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:43   #7
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Since you have the other BEW, log the MAF and compare. The engine should Rev freely to redline in neutral and if not, it likely the MAF.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 07:31   #8
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Group 4 under Engine will give you the timing(torsion value). I have mine set at 0.0. Do you know the condition of the turbo and the actuator?
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Old April 16th, 2018, 07:55   #9
speedy223
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thanks for the replies. i did do that. i didnt actually swap mafs but i checked my other BEW revs to 5100 or so in neutral no problem. unplugged the maf and it did the same, still revved to 5100, at neutral. so i ruled out the maf, also logged the sick car's maf and it was matching spot on, 800's and so on.

torsion value which i am slowly understanding a bit more after a lot of reading is 0.0. seems to imply it is a brand new belt and i guess on properly?

no idea about the turbo, except for the fact that i ran it and it matched actual and specified just fine. runs seemingly fine until you hit the magic rpm and it was not failing to provide actual specified boost for instance in a 5th gear run even though it limits at 3200 or so rpm wise the actual boost was graphing as a straight line that dropped back down when i let off . the gas. when i was driving it with just a regular scan gauge it was going up to 17 psi or so and then hanging out at 15 psi or thereabouts until i let off and it would drop back down. still wouldnt go past 3k though give or take a 100.

on that note about to leave for work and am going to put my scan guage on my working bew and watch the boost and fuel flows (GPH) at higher rpms and compare if possible

thanks for the replies. please keep them coming, bew is a bit trickier to check at least for now since my other one has as stated before behaved itself perfectly.

i will check mechanical timing when i get tools and probably do cam at same time. think i am not changing the belt since it looks brand new and torsion value is 0.0 which seems to corroborate that.

keep the advice coming please

Last edited by speedy223; April 16th, 2018 at 07:57.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 08:59   #10
Carlos_TJ
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0.0 torsion value is either center of adjustment range OR completely out of range (+/-7.00)

I would loose the cam sprocket bolt and bump the cam timing and measure again to see what the number is. (See torsion adjustment threads for more details on how to adjust)

Another way to know if the Engine torsion is zero is to insert the Indexing tools. This is more involving because more parts need to come off.

Last edited by Carlos_TJ; April 16th, 2018 at 09:28.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 09:56   #11
andreigbs
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Agreed: have to check mechanical timing. If it is out of time, it will also affect fuel delivery.

Verify by lining up crankshaft, insert lock pin and verify that cam is where it needs to be accordingly. This is much easier on PDs than ALHs, as are timing belt jobs.

Anyway, once that is done, I (personally) would advance cam timing, as read by torsion value, to about +0.5 which made a difference on my BEW.

Out of curiosity, I would check the injector balance numbers at idle. The closer to each other (and closer to 0) they are, the more balanced they are. Wonky numbers or large variation of -/+ more than 2 would concern me.

First things first: verify mechanical timing, make sure tensioner hasn't slipped or been put on wrong (common occurence).
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Old April 16th, 2018, 10:42   #12
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DanG144 put together a nice thread. Also has info for tandem pump check.
PD fuel system
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Old April 16th, 2018, 12:41   #13
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Thats why i was suggesting loosen the sprocket bolts and give the cam a light light bump. If the torsion reads "-1.0" or "+1.5" you know your original "0.0" was true. If it still reads "0.0" or the car refuses to start, it was waay out of optimal time.

Just sayin'
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Old April 16th, 2018, 18:19   #14
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Take the good BEW out and watch what the MAF reads under a WOT pull. It seems like it should be well over 800, but mine runs fine so I never have need to check it either.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 21:54   #15
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man this is pure gold. thanks a bunch for the info. i wont be able to do this till wednesday afternoon as i am working but this is why i love this forum.
i had no idea it would go back to 0 once it went further out of range.

i wont be able to check mechanical timing till my tools arrive but i can bump it a bit and see if it moves as described.
i still plan on checking mechanical timing once tools arrive and of course replacing the cam but as mentioned just want to make sure i am not working on 2 different problems as that can get confusing for an inexperienced mech like myself.

i will read the tandem pump thread through as well thanks for the link.

i have warmed a bit to the BEW after seeing how much nicer a timing belt job will be but still love my alh's too...

thanks again for the info, will post back when i have some more info to add.
will definitely put the final fix once i have it and look forward to learning more as i go along.
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