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VW Derf

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 3, 1996
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
2010 Blue Graphite Pearl Golf Variant
I must appoligise, but I've been swamped with work and have been unable to monitor anything regarding the forums in the last little bit (nor email). Anyways, I haven't had a chance to investigate things too much, but it seems clear from the feed back I've been getting that the opening up of the discussion areas is not working.
Theirfore I've removed it and we will have to consider other options.

I hope to get time to review some of these items and dedicate more time to the forums soon. Anyways hang in there guys, we will think of something.

Remember, the main reason we are here is for TDIs, Yes we have grown a bit beyond that, but we are main common interest is TDIs, and lets not loose all that we have gained in the past due to differences of opinion, religion, politics, etc.

Fred
 
M

mickey

Guest
It's pathetic that it would even be POSSIBLE to lose anything over those sorts of differences. I've always thought that differences make us stronger. I guess I was wrong.

-mickey

p.s. Ric, this does NOT mean you can post your surveys in the other sections!
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
I agree, my original vote to open that up was a mistake. Time to get back to hardcore TDI stuff and toss all the other BS out the window back where it belongs.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
<font color="blue"><font size="2">
Thank you, Fred. It was a wise decision on your part to eliminate the discussion forum. Yeah, it was fun at first but it just got way out of hand.


Let me know if you need another moderator. I'm interested in keeping this place spam-free & will do my best to do so.
</font></font>

Thanks for the Forums,
-Lawson

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2000 Yellow New Beetle 1.9T Manual
 

dparnell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Herron Island, WA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Too many jumped into the sillyness stage---it would have eventually died down. As I said earlier, the forum is becoming BORING.

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Forum's only distributor for nasty pills and suppositories
 
M

mickey

Guest
My job might be open. I thought I was "moderating" conversations among friends, and ADULTS. Apparently I was mistaken. I'm a bit disillusioned right now.

-mickey
 

BIGJOHNO

Veteran Member
Joined
May 2, 1999
Location
Frozen Tundra
TDI
2010 Golf (Black) mine; 2011 Golf (UGM) hers
Wow. It seems I missed something. From your other post in the 2001 thread mickey, I'm guessing the problem came from TS "Jesus Christ is Savior" post. I didn't get a chance to read it, and I don't know what happened.

As a person who loves this forum, I like mickey always liked the General Discussion forum best. I hope it can be brought back sometime, as I truely value the insights of people coming from a different perspective, and I have come to enjoy talking, discussing, arguing with folks here about other subjects. It will be missed (again, I didn't see people acting like crybabies, so I don't have that perspective -- I'd better get my computer back up and running!). I hope it comes back in some form. I just can't talk about TDIs all day, and many of the folks here are very interesting.

That said, to see mickey, whom I've come to respect and admire (though we disagree on many issues) as one of the more open-minded individuals on the forum, threaten to give up his moderator-ship and be mad at the forum, something REALLY BAD must have happened in that forum. Maybe we just need to wait until after the US election, and people will simmer down.

John
 

TDI Steve

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 1999
Location
LI, NY
TDI
2000 Golf
I must say I am dissapointed.

I am sorry that so many people have been offended by posts. I share in mickey's view of differences uniting people. Although I did not read much of what Steve preached, I did read the discussions that resulted from it and felt they were handled well (for the most part) and maturely. I don't think his post should have been started in the manner in which it was. It was somewhat out of the blue and ignorant to the opinions of others. However it was still a topic that could have led to interesting discussions.

I think topics such as those could be done without. Perhaps it would be better simply to be stronger as a moderator (sorry, mickey, you were definately out of line allowing the posts to continue and almost encouraging the ensuing flames) and to set some stricter guidelines (i.e. religious discussion is acceptable, however it should be treated as a university discussion where you would leave your prejudices and personal beliefs at the door. Your personal beliefs shouldn't be preached, however you should be able to explain what it is you believe- don't ask, don't tell, but encourage questions.)

Perhaps any post of a certain length should be read and approved before actually being posted for public viewing.


I also would be more than willing to help moderate the forums. It'd give me some sense of worth around here considering my lack of technical knowledge!
 

mbciii

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2000
Location
Somewhere Over the Rainbow
I cannot possibly disagree more.

This Bulletin Board has become a community. People have met face to face, we have gathered from far and wide, and come to know each other.

There are leaders, there are followers, there are the educated, and the still learning. We have nice people, mean people, bright people, and idiots like me. There are men, women, and gentle folks of all races, religeons, and creeds. There are southerners, northerners, east coasters, west coasters, Brits, Germans, French, Spanish, a Belgian or two, and even a couple of folks from Canada!

And like any healthy community, there are places of business. A store, a pawnshop, a garage, a chamber of commerce where community leaders meet.

And up until tonight, there was a bar! The bar was big, and boisterous, and rowdy, and occasionally the cops had to come and break up a fight. But it did good business, most of the patrons were honest, happy people; and they met there after their long tedious work days to blow off some steam.

Fred - you are responsible for closing the community bar. Have you ever seen what happens to a small town when the entertainment leaves? I'll save you the pain of learning the hard way - the fun people, the ones you smile and wave to on the street, the hearty ones that you can count on...... leave. Oh sure, people still come into town to conduct their business, but the street life dies. And soon, somewhere, someone else opens a decent little bar, and everyone goes over there, and that community begins to thrive.

Canada, Europe, and the United States are peopled by folks who are used to democracy.

They want some say in how they live, and when they are denied it?

You didn't even ask. You just killed the bar.

Congratulations.

Goodbye.
 

gestalTDIesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2000
Location
Boston Metro West
TDI
2000 Indigo Golf GL
holy cow! my server is down for one day and all hell breaks loose. i don't know what i missed but i feel bad that a whole section got axed. i liked the general discussion section for a laugh and as a way to 'get to know' the other members through non technical disscusions. it's obvious that some people can't be mature about the freedom that an open forum gives; i find it very sad, actually (especially considering most of you are my 'elders' as i'm at the younger end of the scale).
i respect your decision, fred, and i hope some day we can have something like that section again. but if that is not ever to happen again, i will still think this is a great site.

...HEY, i have an idea- what about a general discussion section that one would have to sign in separately at first (then it becomes a 'cookie') allowing seamless use, until one's behavior becomes extreme, at which time he/she will recieve a warning. failure to heed warnings will cause the person to be locked out of the general discussion area until further notice.

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-joe
'00 Indigo Golf GL TDI
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I have an idea let's take these topics over to the Vortex!! They never moderate the posts, and just think of what we can stir up over there with surveys like "wiping" and so on.

All kidding aside the post's were getting a bit, well out there.

I have to support your decision Fred, you being the boss and all.

DB
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Fred did not just arbitrarily kill the section, he was getting bombarded by emails from "outraged" members. If you do not like the content stay out of the section. No one forces you to read anything, much less wants to hear about how it offended you. Some people become offended much too easily. I agree that the section was getting out of hand, some posted to threads simply to identify their true nature. I accept responsibility also as a moderator of the section, I have had major server and hardware problems this week and was not able to do some clean up in there, my attitude was, it's just the springer section. Well I support Fred in his actions, it's his site. If you have donated something to him, you may have some right to voice your opinions. But in the end, he is the boss. I plan to be much more proactive in the other sections I moderate, if it does not pertain to the subject matter, it gets deleted.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Don't blame Fred, blame me for trying to convince him to give this a try in the first place, he did not want to do it but just went along with us asking to try it out. Unfortunatley with freedom comes responsibility, irresponsibility means less freedom and as ususal in life, a few bad apples affect us all.

I'm all for the moderators blackballing a few problem posters (at their own discetion with no questions asked)and getting rid of their diatribes, 99% of the people here are first class, only a handful are bent on pontificating their personal hatred out to all and contribute nothing to VW TDIs. Shut them down and out and things will go on as normal.
 

**DONOTDELETE**

New member
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Fred

Thanks for taking out the garbage.

I support you 100%. I think most will agree that things were way past being out of hand. Unfortunately you probably won't hear from the majority for obvious reasons.

It's an excellent site and you have taken a needed step to keep it that way.

------------------
Louis
2000 GLS Golf TDI Auto
1982 Diesel VW pickup
1998 Ford F-150 (lease is almost up :) )
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mbciii

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2000
Location
Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Well, now finally, I am offended.

If you study the archives, you will see I kept mostly to the technical sections. I certainly am not one of those who "abused" (if anyone did - by my estimate - they did not!) the "General Discussion" section.

But I enjoyed it! It strengthened our community, and breathed life into it.

"It lent color, to what would've otherwise been a stuffy affair"

So what are you left with?

The security of control. Fred can turn off the lights to the little bar anytime he pleases.

Disregard the fact that he could've just as easily ignored the e-mails he was recieving.

I can not, and I will not submit to any form of censorship. When it occurs in my sphere of influence, I will do something about it.

When there is nothing I can do except protest, than I will protest.

When I do not believe my protests gain anything - Then I shall take my leave of you poor, gray, timid souls.

"Those who would trade their liberties for security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin.

Not that I expect Fred to know who that is.

P.S. Fred got another e-mail tonight. It was my request to be removed from the rolls of TDI Club.

Goodbye
 

funkag

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2000
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Fred,

You did what you needed to do and everyone should respect that. I certainly do. The worst thing for all of us would be to lose this site all together. Considering how much we all tinker with our VWs, without this site many of us would be "rideless" within a week.

I don't offend easily (if at all), but lots of people do, so you did the right thing.

-Greg
 

dparnell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Herron Island, WA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Fred, you OVEReacted, you screwed up---take responsibility. I personally would can't imagine it because I have never done so
. Fact, the topic got out of control---it would have probably returned to norm eventually. Should the few ruin it for the many? mbciii is right---the section allowed interaction on a NON tdi basis---personalitotes emerged, humor became the medium of exchange, it WAS entertaining. To abrubtly make such a major forum change was @ best poor judgement. I'm with Mickey and mcbiii---disillusioned.

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Forum's only distributor for nasty pills and suppositories
 

dparnell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Herron Island, WA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
v, if you only have the right to say something if you donated something---well the best I can do for you is to say that you have LOWERED youself in my eyes. The bigger the donation, the bigger the voice? SAD! GFS!!!!

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Forum's only distributor for nasty pills and suppositories
 

ittrad

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver
What about a link to a seperate system for "chat"? Let us not forget that this IS Freds. It's his sandbox. It is not a democracy. Yes we Canadians do know who Ben Franklin is, but we also know that Freds is not a democracy. It's Freds. Why is that so hard to understand?

Cut the guy some slack... he tried to please alot of people by giving them the general forum.. people complained. He took it away. People complained.

You can please some of the people some of the time....

Jamie
 

ittrad

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbciii:
Well, now finally, I am offended.
<snip>
"Those who would trade their liberties for security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin.

Not that I expect Fred to know who that is.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, and one more thing.. the forum is hosted in Canada. We're communists. Didn't you hear?

Sheesh!

jamie
 

VW Derf

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 3, 1996
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
2010 Blue Graphite Pearl Golf Variant
As I've said many times I enjoy the community closeness that has come about. My problem that this format obviously wasn't working. As soon as time permits I will work together with others and try and come up with a better sollution. This last attempt at dealing with the issues did not have the intended results. (A place where people can chat and talk about things while not offending others).

I thank you all for your input and we will try something again. Unfortunatly, time is very tight at the moment, so it will have to a little wait a bit until I dig myself out from my work
.

Send any creative comments my way. It may help us figure a way to allow the best of both worlds. I'll try to reply, but can't guarentee it.

Fred
 

hotrodtdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2000
Location
Can Am Border
is this the new tdi general discussion for members? tis true it is fred's sandbox. personally the stuff was getting downright ridiculus. i think its great if you want to say your a mormon, christian, gay or whatever just dont start preaching your lifestyle or religion. fred, please consider another forum but set up some ground rules and if you dont play fair, kick em out! my 2 cents.
 

VW Derf

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 3, 1996
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
2010 Blue Graphite Pearl Golf Variant
PS, before people jump to conclusions, please re-read my original comments:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Theirfore I've removed it and we will have to consider other options.
... Anyways hang in there guys, we will think of something.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by VW Derf (edited November 02, 2000).]
 

TDI Steve

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 1999
Location
LI, NY
TDI
2000 Golf
I think we should maintain a list of screen names... (aol and aim)

AIM has the ability to import/export buddy lists. If someone were to maintain a file to download this would be easy enough.
Another button on top "Download Buddy List (163 members)" or "Buddy List 12/21/2000"
Chats can be saved, and even posted here (perhaps a forum where all can read but only moderators post- so that "classic" chats could be saved for all to get some perspective on the humor and views of our members, without posting anything offensive?)
 
M

mickey

Guest
Ease up on Fred, folks. People like me thrive on controversy and "lively" conversation, but Fred isn't that sort. The poor guy just wants to talk about TDIs! And he hasn't killed the section permanently, it just needs some re-thinking.

Here is MY proposal:

Any section of the forum can be password-protected, just like the Moderator's section. How about allowing Forum members access to the New and Improved Jerry Springer section as long as they agree to these RULES:

1. The only topics that are not acceptable are those which would reasonably be considered "tasteless" or "offensive" to a MAJORITY of the members of society at large. The decisions will be made by the Section Moderators.

(Effect: Butt-wiping, puking, projectile diahrrea and other unpleasantries would be eliminated.)

1a) This means that many topics ARE acceptable that will inevitably be "offensive" to a minority of people. These topics include, but are not limited to: Race relations, abortion, politics, religion, international relations, fingernail length, and anything else that people in polite society tend to talk about amongst themselves. By accepting and using a password to access this section you are ACKNOWLEGING THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THERE MAY BE SUBJECTS DISCUSSED THAT DO NOT INTEREST YOU PERSONALLY, and which you may even find "offensive" should you choose to read the relavant threads. You agree that it is the RIGHT of forum members to discuss whatever subjects they wish, subject to the above guidelines. You agree that while you may not agree with the opinions expressed or the beliefs professed that you RESPECT THE RIGHT OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS OR BELIEFS, AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE WHO EXPRESSED THEM. Contrasting points of view will always be welcome, provided they are presented calmly, politely, and without rancor.

2. Persons posting on any subject whatsoever agree, by the use of their Section Password, that not everyone will agree with everything they say. They agree that they will refrain from name calling, fighting, threatening, or any other behavior that steps outside the bounds of polite and reasonable discussion should any other member disagree with them.

3. Personal attacks or insults will not be tolerated! Good natured "kidding" is acceptable, but members are enjoined to exercise caution in regards to with whom and how they "kid." You acknowlege and accept that not everyone shares or understands your sense of humor. You agree that you will promptly apoligize should you get the sense that any comment of yours may have been taken as an insult.

4. Last of all, and most importantly, CHECK YOUR HYPERSENSITIVITY AT THE DOOR! There are ADULTS in this section. They will talk about things that you don't necessarily want to hear. If you cannot trust yourself to mingle with them and still manage to adhere to the Rules your only recourse is to STAY OUT of the General Discussion section altogether. It is not the job of the Moderators to censor the membership to suit your individual whims.

How's that? Could it be any plainer? Anyone who doesn't accept these standards will simply have no access to the section at all. They will be welcome to stick to the TDI Forum and talk about oil until they're blue in the face if they like. But if they venture into The TDI Tavern (I LOVE the "bar" analogy!) they do so with the full understanding of exactly what they're getting into.

I really think this can work. If anybody can't handle THAT...well, good riddance to them.

-mickey

[This message has been edited by mickey (edited November 02, 2000).]
 

murraywest

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 1999
Location
Portland, Oregon, USA
My edit will reflect better overnight judgement on my part, but with the understanding that name calling can happen in any area...




[This message has been edited by murraywest (edited November 03, 2000).]
 

T5TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 1999
Location
Cornwall England
TDI
T5 Transporter 2.5
I agree mostly with Fred. If it had been left as it was I think it would just have been a downward spiral.

It would be deadly boring to have nothing but TDI discussion alone on the site. I think it would be hard for the major contributers to keep their enthusiasm going answering endless questions on crush washers and cleaning materials!

It's really nice to know more about the folks you almost feel you know. I'm sure the reason so many came to this site and stayed was the friendly almost gentle way the site ran.

We don't pay for this site, Fred has even avoided advertising, so absolutley NOBODY has the right to critisise Fred. It's his site and he invites us to visit it. If we don't like it, we don't visit it.

If I was Fred I'd be tempted to start another site by invitation only and leave this one to the wolves.........

[This message has been edited by Brodie (edited November 02, 2000).]
 
M

mickey

Guest
Uh, oh. Time to go night-night! The Brits are turning out!

-mickey
 
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