70 MPG/1100/1200 Mile Club

Lug_Nut · Sep 10, 2007

Ernie Rogers said:
Looks like we could accept an MPG claim as certifiable if the travel distance is greater than 400 miles, or the fuel used is at least 5 gallons.
There you are, the basis for a somewhat sane goal. 400 miles on less than five gallons, or equivalent.
Why not make it a contest? I propose we set aside all old records, and only recognize mileage accomplished from this date forward.
Ernie Rogers

I am in favor of this defined minimum distance / minimum fuel limitation for claims. I also have no issue with relegating prior claims created before adoption of this min mile / min gallon rule to a 'pre-rule', foot-note.
My 83+ mpg in the 2003 Tour de Sol (google Kyoto Codex) was for a distance under the proposed 400 mile threshold and would not have been a valid entry under the proposed rules above.
Phoenix 42 and Velvetfoot drove my car to a 78+ mpg result in the 2005 Tour de Sol (google Kyoto Camel). I managed to get myself banned from competing for asking for rules clarifications. Ph-42's and V'foot's result would have met Ernie's proposed 400 mile distance rule as the TdS organizers had a 500 mile minimum distance for that year.

Certifiable? I suppose I could be termed 'certifiable'...

no_rs · Sep 21, 2007

question for you guys in the mileage olympics.

is there a mpg penalty via drag created by the alt pulley for running with any elecrical accessories on: like the cd player, lights, (various for driving, city, daytime, night and high beams?) heater blower, a/c.?

over the last 5 years my best mpg happens in late spring and early fall when I commute 95 miles rt w/o lights, heat or air, windows closed.

any data?

thanks
Bill K

SpamJ · Sep 21, 2007

I'm sure there is a slight penalty, window's would probably be the worst offender followed by air.

I drove around with the scan guage last weekend to see how I would have to drive to make these kind of numbers. I'm looking at 40MPH, without any other changes, that's some kinda patience, which I think Ernie was trying to get across to me.

It's fun to dream though.

Fix_Until_Broke · Sep 24, 2007

Check this out for some detailed analysis of that very topic.

Lug_Nut · Sep 25, 2007

Each 746 watts of energy requires 1 hp. No system is 100% efficient at conversion. Being generous and projecting a 67% efficiency of converting mechanical motion into alternator DC, it's not far off the mark to figure closer to 1 hp at the crank, with losses from belt, alternator pulley cooling fan whipping up the air, AC to DC conversion, heat (alternator, voltage regulator, wiring resistance) to produce about 500 watts of electrical energy.
The coolant glow plugs consume 750 by themselves when they are all on.
Then consider that it takes about 10 hp to maintain steady road speed of about 60 mph. A 500 watt electrical load will require about 10% more fuel (to produce the added 1 hp at the crank) to keep 60 mph than zero electrical load.
55 watt headlights operating at 75% DRL intensity? .165 hp or 1.6% lower fuel economy(at 60 mph) than with headlights off.

no_one_of_consequence · Oct 12, 2007

Second entry

Well, I did what it takes.

Driver: no_one_of_consequence
Miles: 1100.44
Gallons: 16.25
Model year: 2006
Model: Jetta A4
Tranny: 5M
Fuel type: ULSD

MPG: 67.71

Longest range tank but not my best tank...MPGwise

SpamJ · Oct 13, 2007

Wow, well done, this is quite a feat, any special driving style? I see you have done better mileage.

no_one_of_consequence · Oct 13, 2007

Spamjohnson said:
Wow, well done, this is quite a feat, any special driving style? I see you have done better mileage.

Just dare the devil long enough after the bell at 1000.

Fix_Until_Broke · Oct 13, 2007

Congrats n.o.o.c. - Way to go, especially in a PD engine!

I've got to get on those stickers

no_one_of_consequence · Nov 20, 2007

third entry

So here we are... Half tank was awesome seen numbers above 75 MPG for the tank. Then I was stuck in a 1 hour traffic jam. In the last quarter was able to make a come back and making numbers of 80 MPG for the last 200 miles. From what I can see, these new tires ROCK, cause I can do 50-65 MPH P&G and still get something like 80 MPG! I noticed some tail wind on some occasions but certainly not for the whole tank. Today’s numbers are 1.5 L better than the previous attempt, but still short of the 70 MPG.

Driver: no_one_of_consequence
Miles: 1103.55
Gallons: 15.879
Model year: 2006
Model: Jetta A4
Tranny: 5M
Fuel type: ULSD

MPG: 69.49

Fix_Until_Broke · Nov 20, 2007

Fix Until Broke said:
I've got to get on those stickers

Which reminds me, I've got to get on those stickers (still)

Great work!

MethylEster · Nov 20, 2007

How much is the parasitic drag from the power steering pump worth ? Anyone considered disconnecting it to achieve a higher MPG ??

timeline · Nov 23, 2007

What tire sizes for you over achievers??

no_one_of_consequence · Nov 23, 2007

timeline said:
What tire sizes for you over achievers??

This is my current choice:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=194874

Fix_Until_Broke · Nov 23, 2007

Stock - 195/65/15 Michelin Energy MXV4+ at ~52 psi all 4 corners.

I think I'll see what I can find for same width (or narrower) but taller and still a LRR tire for when these wear out. (may not exist?)

timeline · Nov 23, 2007

Fix_Until_Broke said:
Stock - 195/65/15 Michelin Energy MXV4+ at ~52 psi all 4 corners.

I think I'll see what I can find for same width (or narrower) but taller and still a LRR tire for when these wear out. (may not exist?)

New beetles have 16" rims.

Currently running Michelin privicy 225/50/16 and getting poor milage.

Should I go up to a 195/60/16 and will they fit?

Fix_Until_Broke · Nov 23, 2007

I think the 195/60/16 will be ~same diameter as the 225/50/16 (~0.5" more diameter)

I think Ernie Rogers is running 205/60/16 Michelin Energy MXV4+ on his beetle which do fit and are a bit taller than stock. See post 24 in this thread - line item #6 for more info on his setup.

timeline · Nov 23, 2007

Great. That's what I needed to hear.

Cheers
G

no_one_of_consequence · Dec 7, 2007

Hi everybody,

In a few days I will venture into a long range trip to Cancun, shy of 1200 miles each way. I know that an airplane ticket is cheaper, but there is no challenge, right? Any tips with something I’m missing will be greatly appreciated. So, this is what I will do to get well into the 70’s:

Trip will be in two legs 600 miles each with an 8 hour brake. = hope is enough.

Family is flying. = I’ll have all the time to get there and less weight.

I’ll take some luggage with me, about 80lb fastened in the front seat. The trunk will be empty but I’ll keep the safety equipment including a 205/16/55 spare, also two EMPTY baby car seats on the rear bench. = hooping for better weight distribution.

Front tires at 48 (max 51) and rear tires at 40 (max 44). Remember that I have taller rear tires 205/16/65 vs 205/16/55. = reduced rolling resistance.

Radio antenna removed, but will not mess with the mirrors. = little bit less drag.

Recent oil change as recommended. = ??

Clean and waxed car = ??

Fully vented tank = 16 gallons of useful fuel.

My trusty jerrycan. = just in case.

Scangauge.

Pulse and glide w/o key off.

I selected the best route considering traffic and overall terrain elevation. Although there is a 6000ft height differential it will not be a piece of cake. Most of the down grade is a 20 mile four lane stretch, snaking between the mountains which are foggy most of the time. Flat roads are about 800 miles. I hope that average speed will be 55 mph, which will be about right considering that going trough some parts of the mountains are difficult.
I will warm up the car for 15 miles, fill up the tank and then go off.

Wish me luck!!

no_one_of_consequence · Dec 14, 2007

Driver: no_one_of_consequence
Miles: 1175.69
Gallons: 15.82
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta A4
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD
MPG: 74.31
Cost: 31.32 USD equiv

This was the first time I drove at the sea level using scangauge and I was surprised, irritated and frustrated while I saw mpg go down like a stone

. For you guys that live at the sea level and get awesome MPG my RESPECTS.
Now I realise how dense is air

and the hit it takes to FE. Let me explain, I normally drive with P&G assuming that fuel usage during the pulse will be lower than during the glide, therefore the lowest fuel usage at idle is a must. Typical of most of my tanks reported is a fuel co nsumption at idle between 0.6 and 1.0 L/100km and also for the first part of my trip about 500 km, but as soon as I was at sea level I started to see pretty bad FE 3.5 to 4.0 L/100km instead of what I expected for that road condition (3.0 to 3.3 L/100km) , I blamed the crappy road (that wasn’t), wind (calm) and even the tires (I stopped to check, but they were fine). I tried every possible driving trick but fuel consumption remained very high eg. at idle between 1.0 and 1.5 L/100km

. I spent about 300 km trying to find out what was the problem, indeed at mid day it was at worst. For the last 600km I ended with a flat but driving slowly in a lonely road at 2 am in the morning. I ended up blaming thick moist hot air!!!
Manifold pressure was higher at idle (14ish instead of 12ish) but apparently the turbo worked fine the whole range up to 30.

My recommendation about long range hypermiling … as the old saying goes fellows don’t try this at home

Fix_Until_Broke · Dec 14, 2007

Wow - congrats NOoC. Great work! And I know you know how much work it is.

Do you mean liters/hour for idle consumption instead of liters/100km? I didn't follow that part.

I may have to give that pulse and glide thing a try. It's kind of what I do on my commute, but on a macro scale and my glide is with the engine off.

Any more information about the trip?

wjdell · Dec 14, 2007

no_one_of_consequence - if you believe the sea level lowered your mileage - by what percent do think that was

based on .6 1.0 lt @ idle to 1.0 1.5 lt idle - that is a ave of .45 lt. - a 35% reduction.

can't be that much -- my lifetime is 42.6 I am at 36 ft above sea level. That would be like me getting over 57 mpg if your calcs are correct. I think Ernie once gave a figure but I can not remember what it was. Maybe it was a combination of things, elevation and fuel but still.

My elevation is 36 ft
Ave yearly temp 72F
Humidity seems like its always a min of 70% - now as I write its 97% Temp 72 F

Would a 6% drop in mileage be close

no_one_of_consequence · Dec 16, 2007

Fix_Until_Broke said:
Do you mean liters/hour for idle consumption instead of liters/100km? I didn't follow that part.

Nope, L/100km, ´cause that is related to the distance traveled. If the figure is high then is less efficient. L/h makes no sense for this.

Click to expand...

BioBob · Jan 3, 2008

New Rules?

Having finally completed my first 1000 mile tank, I'm not ready to try for another high mileage tank real soon. The fact that I achieved 67.33 mpg has me thinking about 70 however.

I read with interest the comments from Ernie, Lugnut,
and Fix, relative to a shorter distance. I think a fixed distance would attract more competitors, and therefore, be a lot more fun.

Should we start the New Year with a new set of rules,
and a new competition?

I'm sure you three Amigos could swap a few PM's and
come up with a format.

If that sounds like a challenge, you read it right.

Let the games begin !

BioBob

PS: I'd be happy to chip in on the cost of the stickers Fix.

no_one_of_consequence · Feb 17, 2008

Here is the fourth 1110 mile tank. Taller rear tires looking good, considering that my best tank without TRT was in october, the average of the other three yield about 3.6 mpg higher.

_miles_____gal____mpg___ date
1100.44___16.25___67.71___oct_07
1103.55___15.87___69.49___nov 07
1175.69___15.82___74.31___dec 07
1111.63___15.76___70.40___feb_08

AudiLikeA4 · Feb 17, 2008

How much does a .681 swap cost? Is the benefit that great? Isn't there an issue with cruise using the .681? I don't use it often but...

Fix_Until_Broke · Feb 17, 2008

ALA4 - The 0.681 swap is ~$350 for the gears plus ~1 hour installation top. The beneift in fuel savings will not practically pay for itself with the cost of the gears. It helps fuel economy a few percent.

There were issues with cruise control on your car (A4 with PD engine), but I think I heard somewhere recently that Rocketchip had a solution to that. - Check with Jeff since you have RC2+ already, maybe it's already in there?

Search for the 5th gear change/0.681 and you will find much information

AudiLikeA4 · Feb 18, 2008

Fix_Until_Broke said:
ALA4 - The 0.681 swap is ~$350 for the gears plus ~1 hour installation top. The beneift in fuel savings will not practically pay for itself with the cost of the gears. It helps fuel economy a few percent.

There were issues with cruise control on your car (A4 with PD engine), but I think I heard somewhere recently that Rocketchip had a solution to that. - Check with Jeff since you have RC2+ already, maybe it's already in there?

Search for the 5th gear change/0.681 and you will find much information

Even at 45k miles per year? Thanks for the info, I will contact Jeff as I had the RC done over 2yrs ago.

no_one_of_consequence · Apr 12, 2008

I guess the most I can get from it is 1100 under "normal driving".

miles_____gal____mpg___ date
1100.44___16.25___67.71___oct_07
1103.55___15.87___69.49___nov 07
1175.69___15.82___74.31___dec 07
1111.63___15.76___70.40___feb_08
1112.25___16.02___69.42___apr_08

Driver: no_one_of_consequence
Miles: 1112.25
Gallons: 16.02
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta A4 PD
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: D2

MPG: 69.42

frederal · Apr 19, 2008

I can do 1200+ mpg on a 2005.5 Jetta TDI

You can definitely achieve 1200 miles to a singel tank of fuel in 2005.5 or 2006 Jetta TDI. If you don't believe it take a look at this you tube video I just made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxcSlG7C4o
you will see I have driven 154 miles since a fill-up, and computer estimates 1195 to empy. I was averaging over 75 mpg on the tank at that time. The one hour trip read almost 95 miles to the gallon. The tank holds 14.5 gallons but I can get 15.5 in it if I top it off all the way. Even if it is off by 15% it can still do 1209 miles if I am only at 78 mpg!!!. Who needs a hybrid like a prius with its ****y 40 mpg when you can get over 80 mpg at 40 mph in 5th gear on a Jetta TDI with cruise control on. Under the same circumstances the Prius might get 40-45 mpg. Note: I use high grade diesel from Amoco, my engine oil is Shell Rotella-T 5w40 full synthetic , tires are inflated to 40 psi, a fuel additive known as PS Diesel Kleen with "Slick Diesel" in it.
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70 MPG/1100/1200 Mile Club

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