Timing Belt

Yes, I am wondering about my timing belt replacement. I have a 2002 Beetle with the ALH engine. I have 282,000 miles on it and I need to have the timing belt done again. I was looking at purchasing the kit from idparts and noticed that they have a high milage kit for about $100 more, which includes some additional replacement parts and which require more work and cost from my mechanic. I am wondering if it is worth it? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Unless I'm missing something, the only additional work for your mechanic would be changing the T-stat and installing the front crankshaft seal ......... 30 minutes for both! All of the bolts listed have to be removed anyway, except the two that hold the T-stat housing and the one that holds the crankshaft sprocket. Is the bottom front of your engine oily? (Oh, and tensioner and roller studs, two of them.) (Oh, one more time ........ LOL. Yep, removing the Intake, cleaning and re-install is going to be job in of itself!) What does your EGR look like inside? Coked up with soot and oil??

Yep! Prolly should do those extra things if they've never been visited in the past.

The crankshaft seal replacement requires that your mechanic have the big mongo holder/breaker bar (technical terms?) or something fabricated foe such.
Some say if the seal isn't leaking not to touch it. Some tend to change it before it starts to leak, only to have it start leaking afterwards. Others have changed to a new seal w/o issue.
Mine in the 2001 started leaking mid way thru a TB interval and it was getting oil on the TB. I had it changed with good results several years ago.

I don't get the aversion to changing the crank seal proactively. You're already 90% of the way there... the only time I would leave it alone is if it's verified that it's been replaced previously. Not doing it on a high mileage vehicle is false economy imho.

If I understand it...

Seal not leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward, so don't change it?

Seal leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward (or not?) so do change it?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

If you have, or can make the big "mongo" crank holder (I like that term, I'll be using it! ). and can remove the crank seal without scratching the crank...

*note - Lisle makes an excellent, relatively cheap tool for this: https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/shaft-type-seal-puller

...and you can tap the new seal in evenly, then you don't run much risk of the new seal leaking.

One caveat is if you use a newer teflon style seal, that you must be very careful, use the install sleeve, and make sure that the lip does not fold back over on install. I would also recommend waiting the 4ish hours recommended for the seal to contract over the crank.

Personally I just use the spring/lip seals where ever possible, but will install the teflon if requested.

As long as you remove correctly, and install correctly, your risk of leakage is near nil.

Mongo holder and cheater bars..... specially engineered!






Seal pulling, I drill two small holes adjacent to one another and then slowly screw in oversized screws. Using pliers, I gently pull on each screw and wiggle the seal out... never had a failure!

By the time the TB is installed and everything back in place, the 4 hour waiting period for the seal has generally elapsed!

AndyBees said:

Mongo holder and cheater bars..... specially engineered!

Seal pulling, I drill two small holes adjacent to one another and then slowly screw in oversized screws. Using pliers, I gently pull on each screw and wiggle the seal out... never had a failure!

By the time the TB is installed and everything back in place, the 4 hour waiting period for the seal has generally elapsed!

Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. If you don't have tools, make 'em!

Windex said:

One caveat is if you use a newer teflon style seal, that you must be very careful, use the install sleeve, and make sure that the lip does not fold back over on install. I would also recommend waiting the 4ish hours recommended for the seal to contract over the crank.

Click to expand...

So it's the same kind of wait period like the rear crank seal? I didn't even think the front seal could do that like the rear. It's so similar to the cam seal and there is no way that's going to fold over incorrectly.

jokila said:

So it's the same kind of wait period like the rear crank seal? I didn't even think the front seal could do that like the rear. It's so similar to the cam seal and there is no way that's going to fold over incorrectly.

Click to expand...

Given the much larger diameter, the rear main is much easier to fold over inadvertently.

Have seen only one front crank seal folded over - likely cause the stakes are so high, in addition to the smaller diameter.

Couple of messed up cam seals too (teflon and lip seal type).

In the end, if you follow the install instructions and use the install tool to slip the seal over the sealing surface, the chance of making an error is quite low.

Thanks for all the info. I guess I was really wondering about the intake manifold gasket replacement. My understanding is that this is really a job of it's own and not made much easier by doing the timing belt/ water pump. I'm trying to determine if it is really worth the extra money or not? Is it helpful and why?
While I love my bug, it is 17 years old with 282K on it and I am on the fence about putting so much money into it at this point. So, do I just do the timing belt/ water pump and call it a day, or do I go for the intake manifold too?
And if I can ask, has anyone used the timing belt kits from ID parts and if so, are you happy with it?
I should also add, to the best of my knowledge the intake manifold gasket has never been done. I've owned this car for the last 5 years and purchased it with 160,000 miles on it. The only major work I've done is some cam work and a new MAF

Windex said:

Given the much larger diameter, the rear main is much easier to fold over inadvertently.
Have seen only one front crank seal folded over - likely cause the stakes are so high, in addition to the smaller diameter.
Couple of messed up cam seals too (teflon and lip seal type).
In the end, if you follow the install instructions and use the install tool to slip the seal over the sealing surface, the chance of making an error is quite low.

Click to expand...

(subtle thread hijack)
I'll be replacing the oil pump chain this weekend. I didn't buy the tool because from what I read it shouldn't be a problem seating it correctly when you remove the part that the seal sits in. What say you?

I've installed several front crankshaft seals ........ it is really a breeze. Just stay focused and do the job being as clean as possible.

OP, removing the Intake, cleaning and reinstalling it is basic labor. As has been discussed here in several threads, cleaning the Intake Ports in the head is considered critical by some of us, me included. The crud build-up on the inside of the Intake "does not" stop at the head. It continues on into the head ports and is more brittle. So, once the crud is broken at the head when the Intake is removed, it leaves an irregular area that will be subjected to good amount of air turbulence. Thus, it is prone to break off and go into the cylinder ... So, in my opinion, if anyone removes the Intake for cleaning, they should also strongly consider cleaning those 4 head ports........... and, it is very important that the valve is closed on each port as it's being cleaned.

Idparts sells top quality parts!

jokila said:

(subtle thread hijack)
I'll be replacing the oil pump chain this weekend. I didn't buy the tool because from what I read it shouldn't be a problem seating it correctly when you remove the part that the seal sits in. What say you?

Click to expand...

By tool, I mean the one that comes with every teflon seal to guide the seal lip over the crank - the clear/whitish plastic cone - sits inside the seal in the package usually.

Link to an image from MyTurbodiesel: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/b5/bal/bal26.jpg

The seal should come with something like the seal guide in the left picture.

Windex said:

...
If I understand it...
Seal not leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward, so don't change it?
Seal leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward (or not?) so do change it?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
...

Click to expand...

Obviously. Your first point: 'Seal not leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward, so don't change it?'
Before, you have no leak. After, you have a chance of leak. So you have moved from no leak, then expended money and time to get to a possible leak. That makes sense to you?

Second point: 'Seal leaking, change seal, potential for leak afterward (or not?) so do change it?'
Before you have leak. After, you have maybe no leak. Why would you not change it? You'd want the guaranteed leak? You have to ask??

...
As long as you remove correctly, and install correctly, your risk of leakage is near nil.

Click to expand...

Assuming you are the perfect mechanic, then you will also know the value of not doing things before you need to, because you also abhor waste. There is a waste of time and parts cost if you are doing an unnecessary replacement. So you must then determine the lifetime of the old part, the probably lifetime of the new part, your schedule, and therefore whether it is worth doing a replacement prior to the actual need. As a perfect mechanic, you will also know whether the seal that does not leak will last until the next service interval, when you will again be 'already 90% of the way there'.

The end deal is this: some of us don't like to buy parts unless we need them. I for one have other things to do, and I don't feel a personal responsibility to employ persons in parts factories that are a very large distance from here. They won't pay me for anything, and I have other uses for my money as well as my time. Yes, even 10% of it.

Cheers,

PH

I'm with PH. It really hurt for me to replace a perfectly good water pump on my AHU with only 300k on it.

At 300k, I would consider it false economy not to change it, even if it's not driven by the cam belt.

This is based on the experience that the majority of water pumps do not make it that far.

For the crank seal, yes there are some aspects that have to be done correctly in order to make sure the new seal does not leak, but these are no more difficult than the specific tasks needed for the timing belt itself.

Would be a Doh! moment for sure to replace a 300k belt and have the original crank seal start leaking 10k later...

"Mongo like Sheriff Bart".

The gasket isn't there just to replace the gasket. It's there for when the intake manifd is removed to be cleaned. Does your intake manifold need to be cleaned is the quest you need to know.

jettawreck said:

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. If you don't have tools, make 'em!

Click to expand...

I found that once you have the holding bar in place you can use the floor jack to push up on the breaker bar. Works like a champ.

Let me just clear up something, I did have the timing belt and water pump replaced at 180K.

I will admit that I do not know if my intake manifold needs to be cleaned or not. Is there anything that I should be looking for that would indicate that it needs to be cleaned? I want to be as proactive as possible with maintenance needs but not spend money unnecessarily.

Removing the EGR/ASV valve is pretty easy. It's rather obvious with that off....

Take off the intake hose and look in the hole. Use a light and mirror if necessary or shoot a picher with your phone.

Timing pully/balancer falling off

Hey guys, just a few questions. I’m new to the tdi world. I’ve have really only worked on Nissan’s and Honda’s. But I bought a 2000 tdi for $500 bucks. Almost mint shape, except the woman is telling me that the crankshaft has broke and it spit out the side. Which to me sounds very unlikely, considering the engine only has 50000kms on it. She had the motor replaced 2 years ago, along with timing belt and water pump and clutch.

Would the 19mm timing gear bolt coming loose be a more likely scenario? Or have any of you experienced a similar issue?

I have turned the pully by hand and the cam is turning with it, which I feel is somewhat good news. I just hope there is no valve and piston damage.

Either way, I’m not out any money cause the car is worth far more than 500 as it sits.

For a car that is unknown, the best thing would be to start with the basics.

I'm assuming that the car does not start?

If the timing / timing belt is suspect, I would do as you have - inspect the belt and then see if the cam turns with the crank.

Next I would see if the crank at TDC also lines up with the cam at tdc and the pump at tdc.

Best would be to review the timing belt procedure, located here: http://pics3.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

If the cam/crank/pump line up, the next I would do is a compression test.

The seller indicates the crank is broken - are there any signs on the block that the crank or rods have spit out the side?

easy enough to check the crank if needed - just drop the pan and inspect.

I havnt tried to start it, and no there are no signs of block damage., the only thing I can see is that the balancer and timing gear have come away from the engine. But the timing belt seems to be just hanging on to it. When I asked her where the crank shaft broke. She pointed to the balancer. As I can see, the balancer bolts to the timing gear. So I’m hoping the bolt backed out. But thanks for the advice, I will start there.

Edit**Thanks for that link windex. Very informative

f0rumrid3rtdi said:

I havnt tried to start it, and no there are no signs of block damage., the only thing I can see is that the balancer and timing gear have come away from the engine. But the timing belt seems to be just hanging on to it. When I asked her where the crank shaft broke. She pointed to the balancer. As I can see, the balancer bolts to the timing gear. So I’m hoping the bolt backed out. But thanks for the advice, I will start there

Click to expand...

You should start your own thread instead of trying to get advice on another. The original poster (OP) of this thread hasn't even had his problem resolved. You will more input if you do so and not burden the posts with something entirely different. If you feel this or another thread is relevant then copy the link and paste it in your post as well

As to your situation:
The lady might have said crankshaft, but it is more likely for rod/pistons to crack the block when the break (due to some event) at higher RPMs. This is just as serious as breaking a crank because the block is useless.

If the cam belt sprocket came loose pistons hit valves. Damaged cam followers will likely verify this.

Mushroomed valves may not leak but may fail later. Spend the money up front for a properly rebuilt head.

Possible cause was an improperly torqued or reused crank bolt.

Edit: Didn't notice the hijack. What jokila said...

So which are we discussing?
#21 or #1

Don’t worry about mine. I will open a new thread for further questions

Did anyone ever answer your question? I was looking for the same thing. VW Beetle 1999 TDI or ALH engine with 275K miles. Need timing belt and water pump DIY instructions. If anyone can shortcut me to the instructions, I would certainly appreciate it! Thanks.

Topada page. Hit the "Articles" button.

Read it.

Follow it.

Except use a wrench on the crank bolt to rotate the motor. Don't use the cam or pump bolt.