Lift for TDI Sportwagen (for oversize tires)

damn! he had some great info/experience in his posts, at least on this thread anyway!

geodug said:

He must have been thoroughly insulted when another member called him out on the "Heat" thread under this category. Among other comments he was called a "madman". After that it got worse.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4670373#post4670373

The Moderators should have caught it but the post is still there including both his and the "offender's" post.

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I am a madman lol....Actually I guess a crackhead too.

But this crackhead also fixed his Intercooler issue, with no tools, money or TSB....I'm full bore cray cray.

TDI_Coast2Coast said:

I have Bilstein HD's all around and Stock front springs. I have air bags in rear, but lol I don't need them. I filled the back with firewood and towed a quad/trailer and the only reason I knew was I could chirp in 3rd pretty easy, trying to get away from trailer. I did have 10psi in bags, but they go to 50psi, I just like some air, keeps bags from rubbing.

Ride is significantly better. A bit stiff when empty, but I prefer stiff over soft(that's what she said). I takes turns much better as well, less body roll, plus both front and rear sway bars upgraded.

To be honest, it barely sank with wood/trailer. Didn't measure, but it was still higher in the back lol. I think just new front springs would work for me. I think they are kind of saggy and just done. I drive it hard.

Yes they were from ID parts...I don't have to even think about scraping now, with or without weight/trailer.

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we're glad to see you back here! are you using the Bilstein HD for a sportwagen? Is the length of the rears compatible with the lift provided from the springs? did the HD set raise the care a hair?

do you have any pics? i'll likely be doing this in stages, so i don't want too much a forward rake with rear spring swap.

i will also be driving around empty most of the time. i don't mind, but my wife might mind if it is too rough. We both ride in a 1ton dodge cummins, so are used to a rough ride . . . but that's a truck, this is a car we're talking about.

is the ride 'harsh' when empty, or just firm?

did you have airbags before or after the tow springs?

are these the struts you are using?
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_63&products_id=4628

Yes, those are the struts/shocks. I'd say the HD's made car feel more like a BMW. Stiff, but not too rigid. Handles remarkably better. The air bags were actually going in when I noticed stock rear spring broken. I put 10psi in the bags when I filled back with split oak firewood and a 5x7 trailer with 500lb quad on it.

I accept a slightly stiffer ride when empty, so when loaded, it feels stable.

I think the HD's did give a slight increase in ride height, and I believe struts have preset heights where spring goes in the perch. If that is the correct terminology. So you can preset height higher/lower. I'm getting cr170 turbo and new IC installed next week, after that I am going to swap front springs out with tigs. We will see how that works out.

Thanks to everyone for the good information in this thread.

Last year the LR spring on our SW broke (while driving on the highway @ about 50mph). I had always wanted to lift the car, so after reviewing the info on this thread, I bought a set of the H&R 29037 springs. I installed the rears in Jan of 2014, using stock shocks, etc. (I also discovered that the original LR spring had broken both top & bottom, bottom previously.) My plan was to find a pair of stock Tiguan front springs to end up with a more modest, balanced, lift. However, I ended up installing the H&R springs on the front and a pair of auto-tech 3/4" spacers in the rear in conjunction with the H&R springs. I am still running stock shocks & struts. (I also swapped the springs without disassembling the steering knuckles from the control arms or removing the axles from the hubs. So it is possible, but probably not worth the trouble.) It has been about 3k miles since I changed the front springs. Occasionally I have had the suspension hit the rebound stops at low speeds over larger bumps, but I have not had any negative effects on the car's highway performance. I will update this post with top of fender opening to hub-center dimensions which I thought I had written down, but now cannot find.

In terms of cost & straightforwardness, buying the H&R kit & adding spacers in the rear to level the car is pretty simple & cheap, and I think it provides pretty much the maximum lift you would want to go for, from a "does the car look funny" point of view. The parts physically "bolt in" with no problems. In my opinion, the CV angles and handling are fine, and could maybe go further.

That's my experience so far, and thanks to all.

Alec

Great info Alec! Now you know what we need from you...............
PICS!

Good to see someone at VW was paying attention to this thread.

2016 Golf Alltrack

Now hopefully, we can lift this sucker, too!!!

BTW, from what I'm seeing, it only comes in DSG But the all wheel drive, TDI, and lift over stock SportWagen just might be enough for me to trade my '12 in...

benwah said:

Good to see someone at VW was paying attention to this thread.

2016 Golf Alltrack

Now hopefully, we can lift this sucker, too!!!

BTW, from what I'm seeing, it only comes in DSG But the all wheel drive, TDI, and lift over stock SportWagen just might be enough for me to trade my '12 in...

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I'll have to see the price but on paper this could be everything I've ever wanted, minus DSG only option but I'll let that slide considering it's still not a CVT.

elitegunslinger said:

I'll have to see the price but on paper this could be everything I've ever wanted, minus DSG only option but I'll let that slide considering it's still not a CVT.

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Yes, my "everything" list is:
- small turbodiesel (e.g. TDI),
- ground clearance,
- all wheel drive (or 4WD - splitting hairs)
- manual transmission
- sold in the U.S. - this is the hardest to get. My "dream car" is readily available R.O.W.
- under $30k

Not sure on that last one for the Alltrack, and as previously mentioned, DSG seems like only option for trans. But I guess in my old age, I can live with a slushbox. I probably won't mind as much when the wife drives it, either (her clutch work is rusty, and with the diesel... let's just say she doesn't like to drive my car, especially with me in the passenger's seat.)

And although specs are premature, at least one source has reported the Alltrack will be able to tow 2000 kg!!! (scroll about 3/4 of the way down). That'd have to be a class 3 hitch!!!

But I'm getting off topic for this thread, so...

"Lift" or ride height figures are being claimed at anywhere from 0.75" / 20mm (actually .79") up to 2" over stock on the '16 Alltrack - again depending on source. I'm gonna guess it's probably the 20 mm figure. Still not as much as we're talking about on this page, but better than current stock Sportwagen.

So, I guess we'll wait to see if the '16 Tiguan springs fit the '16 Golf Sportwagen Alltrack. Or maybe, just maybe, someone will come out with a dedicated lift spring once our 'wagens are finally being considered "off road".

Well, at least as off road as the Mall Rated Jeeps and Outbacks are...

I ended up getting the Kilen Tiguan 4Motion HD springs for the rear and the 4Motion TFSI springs for the front. They're not installed yet, but they'll be going in with Koni Sports and I'll post up results when it's done.

Also, I'd considered the 1K0411105DN (PR-2UB+L67) springs for the front. These are the highest load range (L67) available as an OEM Jetta specific application. I'd think they'd match well with the 1K0511115CT JSW "tow" springs that many people are using for the rear. Does anyone have any experience with the 1K0411105DN in the front?

Just got new tennies for the wagon, 215 60r16 significant improvement in ride + 4 mph at 70 and no rubbing with a back end full of groceries and turning lock to lock.

BFG touring from Sam's club. 93$ a tire with 50$ rebate,.

Ànd no changes to suspension

Right on. I definitely have liked the ride quality of a taller sidewall, and the overall gearing improvement is a nice benefit as well.

I'm not sure when I'll get around to wheels and tires, but I'm pretty sure with the lift I'll be able to fit 245/45/18 without any troubles. That'll give about 3/4" of lift as well. Even better than just the suspension lift, because every part of the car, including the suspension bits will benefit from the lift of a taller tire.

That particular tire size should fill out the wheel wells nicely and give a nice stance. Not what the stance guys would call stance, but more of a bully SUV look, which I like the look of.

GTISMKR -

That tire size fills the wheel wells beautifully. I did a test fit on my car, with wheels from a friends Passat. It caused rubbing while entering/exiting the driveway, and during full lock turns. The pictures below are on stock suspension.
VW Bristol wheels 18x8et48
Nokian Hakka tires 245/45/18



I have since decided to run one smaller size than above. I now have nokian winters 215/55/17 with stock wheels. My summer setup will hopefully be 235/45/18. Both tire sizes are 26.3"

I have rear towing springs ordered, and hopefully install them soon. Later in the year I plan on a pair of front tiguan springs to level the car a bit. I'm really hoping my tires don't look to tiny after lifting. If they look odd, them I'll size up to the 245/45/18 when the current tires need replacing.

2011 JSW
I'm running 215/65r16 blizzaks on a completely stock car.
That is a 27" tire, which gives 1" of ground clearance.
It's also approx the same section width and tread width as the stock 16" tire. For a DD, wider only kills mpg.

They only hit on the front edge of the fender arch when turned slightly and hitting a large bump.
I believe this is a backspacing issue more than a tire fitment issue, as I have room to move them inwards.
Rims are 16x7.5 ET45.

I used some rims I had around instead of finding the right ones to do the job.
This will be rectified for next season for sure. I will find some narrow 16" with proper backspacing.

I also think a 1" lift might be in my future as well. Just to give it a touch more altitude.
2" more ground clearance should be just about right, I think.

I lifted my mk4 Jwagon is lifted 2.5/2 and has 27.7" tires, which I think looks great on the more "square shaped" mk4 body.
I might not love the altitude as much on the "curvy" mk6 model, hence the future 1" lift.

Thanks, unorganizedplan, for posting up pics and confirming fitment details. That fitment looks awesome! The lift should eliminate the entrance/exit rubbing, and little more offset should take care of the full lock rubbing. Can't wait to be there.

GTISMKR said:

Thanks, unorganizedplan, for posting up pics and confirming fitment details. That fitment looks awesome! The lift should eliminate the entrance/exit rubbing, and little more offset should take care of the full lock rubbing. Can't wait to be there.

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No problem.
While I can say with confidence but not certainty, I agree a minimal lift would fix the rubbing problems.

I can't wait to get to that tire size also.
My plan for now, come spring is to find a summer wheel/tire setup in 18x8et45 with 235/45/18 tires. For me this solves the rubbing issue of the larger tire until I am properly lifted down the road. At that point I'll just up the tire size when the replacement is needed.

Scott02 said:

2011 JSW
I'm running 215/65r16 blizzaks on a completely stock car.
That is a 27" tire, which gives 1" of ground clearance.

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Wow 27" Nice! I ran 215/55/17 for awhile which was 26.3" with the Tiguan Front / Towing Spring Rear combo on Bilstein HD's. I liked the look and it gave me approx 1.5" (3-3.5cm on either side of the tire to the bottom of the wheel fenders all around.

Depending on the width of the tire and offset of the wheel you could definitely go bigger. I'm running 235/45/18 on an 18x8 ET45 right now. I wanted to keep the circumference I had previously because I knew it worked looked good to me (no issues with rubbing or topping out) and gave a little room on either side of the tire to the fender lip. I thought about 245/45/18 but honesty I wasn't too sure if the extra 0.4" in circumference and 10mil in width would put me awfully close to the strut tower base. Having said that I think it would be fine even with a 45 offset wheel though you could go a little lower to push things out a bit to be safe.

As it is right now I don't really notice much different in ride quality and lost about .5 in sidewall height from the previous 17" setup to the 18's. I love the added height vs the lowering springs I ran for the first two years I had the vehicle.

schreibers -

You have the exact setup I am after. Rear towing springs, front tiggy springs, 18x8et45 wheels with 235/45/18 tires.

Do you have pics you could post, or email if too large/too many?

schreibers said:

I ran 215/55/17 for awhile which was 26.3" with the Tiguan Front / Towing Spring Rear combo on Bilstein HD's.

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What Tiggy springs net the equal lift to the IDparts Towing rear springs?
I've read people say the IDparts rears give ~2".

Ideally, I'd like to get together enough research to get a 1" lift with springs only, and secondly, a 2" lift with springs only (though possibly using Tiggy struts). Then I would decide which path to take with the current 27" tires, as I think they fill the wheel well nicely on the JSW.

Front 1" lift: ?
Rear 1" lift: ?

Front 2" lift: ?
Rear 2" lift: IDParts Towing Springs

turboaz2 said:

__________________________Strength____Length
Sportwagen Rear:---------------149 lb-in----357mm
Sportwagen Rear HD:-----------194 lb-in----323mm
Tiguan 4motion Rear:----------183 lb-in----363mm
Tiguan 4motion Rear HD:------234 lb-in----340mm

Sportwagen TDI Front:---------144.5 lb-in---345mm
Tiguan 4motion TFSI Front:----184 lb-in----359mm

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I got a set of springs from a 09 Tiguan 2.0T 4 Motion (Non-Sport).

Front Springs are Green Red Red.
Rear Springs are Brown Dot JSW Towing from ID Parts.

On Bilsten HD Suspension and 235/45/18 wheels (previously 215/55/17) diameter is 26.3"

From ground to bottom of front bumper lip is around 10"

Front measurement at center of fender is 28 7/8"
Rear measurement at center of fender is 29 3/4" (unloaded)

Thanks, schreibers, it's nice to see more details specs with different setups. That sounds pretty sweet.
Would you mind posting measurements from the center of the wheel to the wheel arch? That will eliminate any tire variables from the lift figures and give widely comparable numbers.

Guys, researching OEM part numbers, I see there are front spring load ranges up to L67. I ordered some of these for comparison to the Kilen Tiguan 4Motion front springs.
A few notes below from recent research. Note these are details for front springs only.

2013 Jetta front springs
1 1K0411105DE coil spring; 1 paint mark; 3 paint marks; also marked with:; 3 paint marks; 1 paint mark; red; violet; violet; pink; PR-L63 2
1 1K0411105DM coil spring; 4 colour strokes; also marked with:; 2 paint marks; 3 paint marks; violet; pink; brown; PR-L66 2
1 1K0411105DN coil spring; 3 paint marks; also marked with:; 3 paint marks; 1 paint mark; violet; pink; brown; PR-L67 2 - (2UB) Rough-road/sports version: Rough-road design.
1 1K0411105EQ coil spring; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; also marked with:; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; red; white; green; green; blue; PR-L74 - Audi A3 w/Sport suspension (probably lowering)


2013 Tiguan front springs
1 5N0411105AG coil spring; for sports suspension; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; 2 paint marks; green; white; yellow; PR-G03+L12 2
1 1K0411105BG coil spring; 4 colour strokes; also marked with:; 1 paint mark; 4 colour strokes; yellow; grey; brown; PR-G06+L15 2
1 1K0411105BM coil spring; 3 paint marks; 2 paint marks; grey; brown; PR-G06+L16 2
1 1K0411105DE coil spring; 1 paint mark; 3 paint marks; also marked with:; 3 paint marks; 1 paint mark; red; violet; violet; pink; PR-G06+L17 2 (Note these match Jetta L63 load range)

1 1K0411105DP coil spring; 4 colour strokes; also marked with:; 4 colour strokes; 1 paint mark; violet; pink; brown; PR-G29+L69 2 - not readily available in US, but about $100 each, shipped from Europe - Touran natural gas application

So, while we don't know the height of the Jetta L63 (same as Tig L17) or L67 springs, we do know that You can get a stiffer spring as a Jetta application. Unless you want to try the L69 springs.

If you seen higher load ranges, let us know by adding them to the thread. Be sure to specify whether they're sports or rough road type, as one would likely lower, while the other would lift.

More info for rear springs to come.

BTW, shipping for the Tiguan Kilen springs is a lot cheaper than the Boge springs on rockauto, which was one of the reasons to try them out.

GTISMKR said:

Thanks, schreibers, it's nice to see more details specs with different setups. That sounds pretty sweet.
Would you mind posting measurements from the center of the wheel to the wheel arch? That will eliminate any tire variables from the lift figures and give widely comparable numbers.

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Approximately 16 1/2" to 16 5/8" for the front from center of the wheel to the top of the arch. The rear is 17"

Edit: although I did find these under a 2013 Jetta listing, closer looks a the parts diagram shows a MKIV suspension, so these are likely MKIV parts, rather than MKV. The load range probably doesn't coincide with the MKV load ranges either.

Adding a couple more 2013 Jetta front spring listings that would appear to be rough road specific and with higher yet load ranges.

1J0411105EN For vehicles with coil spring 1 paint mark rough road equipment PR-L72.red.yellow.(L72) Weight category front axle: Suspension range 72

1J0411105FG coil spring; for models with; heavy duty suspension; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; 1 paint mark; red; green; blue; PR-L84 For vehicles with coil spring 1 paint mark rough road equipment (L84) Weight category front axle: Suspension range 84

The L84 spring would seem to be top dog for the front so far. Although I doubt it would be as lofty as the H&R front. Only one way to find out...

Edit: So, yeah, these are MK4 parts for those of you MK4 guys looking for a little lift.

Guys, I've been following this thread for over a year, and I am finally close to pulling the trigger. My '11 JSW has 112k miles, and suspension is creaking (especially when cold), so I'm thinking about doing the lifting springs plus new shocks & struts at the same time. I just re-read this entire thread (whew!) and here is what I'm thinking:
New Bilstein HD shocks & struts: http://www.idparts.com/catalog/produ...oducts_id=4628
H&R 29037.1 Tiguan 4WD lift springs:
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...el=Tiguan&autoYear=2013&autoModClar=S+4MOTION
What do you guys think? I want about an inch of lift, and a slightly firmer ride. What else do I need to be thinking about? Rear spacer to level the lift? Mounts? I'm not a suspension expert, so sound off!

The front springs on the H&R lift kit will give an 1.5" to 2" of lift. You'll get about an inch of stiff lift in the rear, though. That setup on the JSW puts it nose high. The autotech 3/4" spacer would level the rear out decently.

Most drivers with those H&R springs up front with upgraded aftermarket struts don't seem to have the top out issue that the stock struts do. Go with Tiguan 4Motion or 2WD non-sport front springs for less lift. Each of those will give less than the H&R in the front. The 4Motion springs will be about in between the H&R and the 2WD, with most Tiguan 2WD front spring drivers seeing around and inch of lift.

Thanks GTISMKR. I just ordered the Autotech 19mm spacers. Everything else is on its way-now to find the time to install everything! I'll take before & after pics to post.

Hey guys, if any of you have calipers or a micrometer and a tape measure, you can take measurements of your springs before installation to calculate what the spring rate is. Carefully measuring the wire diameter is the most important thing, since .1mm can make a significant difference in the spring rate. Here's the link I use for the spring rate calculations: http://www.thespringstore.com/spring-calculator/spring-rate-calculator.html, then I use this to convert from N/mm to lbs/in: http://www.convertunits.com/from/pound/inch/to/N/mm

Here are some examples:

1K0411105DN front springs - 355mm tall, 149mm diameter, 13.51mm wire diameter, 4 coils = 189lb/in

KILEN 25074 Tigaun 4Motion FSI non-sport front - 13.75" tall (350mm), 13.4mm thick, 4 coils, 152mm diameter = 171lbs/in

KILEN 65067 Heavy Duty Tiguan 4Motion rear - 13.75" tall (350mm), 13.7mm thick, 7 coils, 121mm diameter = 230lb/in

With that info, I'm going to use the 1K0411105DN front springs rather than the Kilen 25074, since their stiffer as well as marginally taller. Anyone interested in the Kilens for their front?

With any luck and some good weather, I may get to install my new suspension bits this weekend. I'll be sure to post results.

Will the KILEN springs now be extra for you?
If so, I might be interested.

Does anyone have any idea how they might pair with the towing springs in the rear?
I currently have the towing springs sitting in a box, but no front lift springs yet...

GTISMKR -
Those lbs/in specs you calculated above. Do you happen to have any specs on hand for the towing springs?