Is it worth Owning a TDI anymore?

straightliner

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
n.w.indiana
TDI
09 TDI Jetta
I am really questioning this guys! Specifically 09 and newer

* Diesel is so expensive.

* The expensive maintenance that is required.

* Timming belts at 120K intervals

* DPF replacement also at 120K?

* Poor fuel mileage (mine is a 09)

* New sales are also down.

How does everybody else feel?
 
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pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
1. $0.40 to $0.60 more than reg. it still "pays" to drive diesel unless you do not mind driving a small ecobox that want's to be a car.

2. Wake up and smell the roses. All new cars are expensive to maintain when something craps out. Just price few cats for mainstream vehicles and you will see for yourself.

3. And your point is? Majority of new engine designs use belts and guess what... they also have to be changed. The difference is that this forum really beats this whole thing into a ground because there aren't many places that do it right. My Volvo 960 also has a belt that has to be changed every 70k miles.

4. Where did you get "DPF replacement at 120k" bs from? It should be INSPECTED at 120k miles. Read your owners on that.

5. Poor fuel mileage? Are you comparing it against "other" TDIs or other vehicles? Expend on that. I get constant mid 40's tanks on my 09 TDI. This tank looks like I will get 45ish.

6. Whatever you are smoking, assuming it's legal, I want some. :)

7. Do not flame me for my economy from my fuellly signature. it's an overall average including extensive breaking in driving techniques. :)
 
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straightliner

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
n.w.indiana
TDI
09 TDI Jetta
1. $0.40 to $0.60 more than reg. it still "pays" to drive diesel unless you do not mind driving a small ecobox that want's to be a car.

2. Wake up and smell the roses. All new cars are expensive to maintain when something craps out. Just price few cats for mainstream vehicles and you will see for yourself.

3. And your point is? Majority of new engine designs use belts and guess what... they also have to be changed. The difference is that this forum really beats this whole thing into a ground because there aren't many places that do it right. My Volvo 960 also has a belt that has to be changed every 70k miles.

4. Where did you get "DPF replacement at 120k" bs from? It should be INSPECTED at 120k miles. Read your owners on that.

5. Poor fuel mileage? Are you comparing it against "other" TDIs or other vehicles? Expend on that. I get constant mid 40's tanks on my 09 TDI. This tank looks like I will get 45ish.

6. Whatever you are smoking, assuming it's legal, I want some. :)[/QUOT

I'll pass on your sarcasm
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
Not many cars I'd want to drive can get 45mpg. Ok the Prius maybe can but I'd rather gargle bleach than drive one of those things.


My Jetta runs me about $0.09 mile while my WRX runs me $0.18. I drive about 2000 miles a month so that would be about a $180 difference a month.
 

pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
1. $0.40 to $0.60 more than reg. it still "pays" to drive diesel unless you do not mind driving a small ecobox that want's to be a car.

2. Wake up and smell the roses. All new cars are expensive to maintain when something craps out. Just price few cats for mainstream vehicles and you will see for yourself.

3. And your point is? Majority of new engine designs use belts and guess what... they also have to be changed. The difference is that this forum really beats this whole thing into a ground because there aren't many places that do it right. My Volvo 960 also has a belt that has to be changed every 70k miles.

4. Where did you get "DPF replacement at 120k" bs from? It should be INSPECTED at 120k miles. Read your owners on that.

5. Poor fuel mileage? Are you comparing it against "other" TDIs or other vehicles? Expend on that. I get constant mid 40's tanks on my 09 TDI. This tank looks like I will get 45ish.

6. Whatever you are smoking, assuming it's legal, I want some. :)[/QUOT

I'll pass on your sarcasm
I was not being sarcastic... just getting tired of people crying about the new TDIs... trying to foresee future parts replacements. Have you ever just think of how marvelous piece of engineering your TDI is?
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Remember to keep the proper perspective on the fuel price. As fuel prices go up, the actual number of cents per gallon difference becomes less important.

With diesel $5.50 per gallon and gas $5.00, TDI's have more of an advantage than when diesel is $3.50 and gas $3.00.

Also, as more of these CR engines come out of warranty, the gurus, tuners, aftermarket suppliers and owners are going to quickly increase their expertise. They won't be hesitant to tear into them and learn the secrets. Just like the ALH's and PD's are pretty well understood now.
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I thought TB is 80-100k? Diesels are still in demand. It will always be in demand.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
I thought TB is 80-100k? Diesels are still in demand. It will always be in demand.
2009+ TDIs have their TB change interval at 120k

To the OP - Diesel fuel costs about 10% more than RUG, but diesel engines are about 30% more efficient. The math is simple. The higher the cost of fuel the more important the diesel savings becomes. Plus, all new cars have expensive maintenance and require regular timing belt replacement. I fail to the the reason behind your questions.

Have Fun!

Don
 

straightliner

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
n.w.indiana
TDI
09 TDI Jetta
Not many cars I'd want to drive can get 45mpg. Ok the Prius maybe can but I'd rather gargle bleach than drive one of those things.


My Jetta runs me about $0.09 mile while my WRX runs me $0.18. I drive about 2000 miles a month so that would be about a $180 difference a month.
Dont get me wrong, I like the jetta but i average around 37 mpg for my 09. My 06 averaged 44mpg and its best was 49mpg! and no DPF related maintenance!
I would rather not drive a prius or some of the other compacts but there are a growing number of gassers that are getting close to the same and possibly better fuel mileage?
 

MarylandJetta

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Location
Rockville, MD
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Sure. A Focus, Yaris or Cruze could come close to squeezing 40mph highway under ideal conditions, but under ideal conditions (555 mph traffic, all highway) I bump 54mpg. I get an easy 44-46mpg at 75-80. And I paid about $23K, which is about the same as an up-level Cruze and a much better equipped car than a $17K Focus.

It handles great, it's comfortable, and it doesn't try so hard to make an eco-statement like the Prius. It's just a good car, done well. I don't expect the costs of maintenance to be out of whack with any other new 2010 car.
 

busdrvr

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Location
SE WI
TDI
09 sportwagen tdi,6spd man. Traded 7/2015 for 14 Allroad.
I posted in the mkVI thread about my recent purchase of a 09 JSW TDI and finding out the maintenance history which included replacement of a bent conn. rod at ~23K, 6 months ago. (all 4 replaced).

Does this thread also have an area where owners are discussing the inter-cooler condensate or possible related problems?

I am at 35K today and really wish I would have seen this info before taking the plunge. While I am confident that the engine was A1 the day it came out of overhaul, I am worried about whether or not the engine has a design flaw which could cause a repeat of this.

I spoke to the shop manager at the dealer where the repair was done and he indicated that vW may be working on a fix for this and he suspected that water ingestion may have caused a hydro-lock and the resulting damage.

Do any of you folks resort to opening the IC hoses to look for/drain H2O/sludge?
 
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narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Let's see the Honda fit advertises 34/33 hwy, and 27/28 city. Well my wife gets 26 mpg with more city than hwy driving. I get in the high 30s with the same driving habit with the TDI.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
* Diesel cars cost more than gasoline.

Seriously, here in Europe it's not worth owning diesel past several years unless you make at least 30k-40k miles a year.
 

curovo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Let's see the Honda fit advertises 34/33 hwy, and 27/28 city. Well my wife gets 26 mpg with more city than hwy driving. I get in the high 30s with the same driving habit with the TDI.
Assuming a $10K price difference, 26 vs. 38 mpg, and current gas prices around here of around $4.00/gal RUL and $4.30 Diesel, then if you both drive to the Moon you will about break even... unless insurance on the Fit is lower. :p

Sadly, my 2009 TDI that gets under 30 mpg under those driving conditions will need more like two round trips. :mad:
 

Tim Birney

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Location
Dearborn Heights, MI
TDI
05.5 TDI
Dont get me wrong, I like the jetta but i average around 37 mpg for my 09. My 06 averaged 44mpg and its best was 49mpg! and no DPF related maintenance!
I would rather not drive a prius or some of the other compacts but there are a growing number of gassers that are getting close to the same and possibly better fuel mileage?
Some Apples. some Oranges.

My 2003 MKIV was ALWAYS year round, 45 MPG in the City, and always year round 50 MPG Highway.
As the EPA Gods have dictated the MKV (2005.5 thru 2009) will not meet that performance.

Regardless, a true mix of city and Highway will get you 37 MPG or more over an extended term of five years or more.
Maintennance is nothing compared to my old F-250 Ford Diesel Truck.
 

Rod Bearing

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
Fort Worth
TDI
Several
Dont get me wrong, I like the jetta but i average around 37 mpg for my 09. My 06 averaged 44mpg and its best was 49mpg! and no DPF related maintenance!
I would rather not drive a prius or some of the other compacts but there are a growing number of gassers that are getting close to the same and possibly better fuel mileage?
Have you factored in the cost differences due to fewer oil changes and no tune ups, etc, that a gasser suffers? I have several TDI's and most are 09 and newer and we watch cost per mile like a hawk. They simply leave gassers in the dust, all things considered. It's rare that I don't see 600+ miles on a tank (13 gals) in the TDI's. If it's all interstate I can go deep into the 600 mile range and often over 700. No mini 4 cyl gasser econo box will do that in spite of what the car companies are telling you.

Good luck.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Rod, all VAG gas engines have the same oil change intervals as the TDIs, and have been that way for quite some time, along with many other gas powered cars.

No tune ups? Can't say I have had to "tune up" any gas cars in the last 10 years either. In fact, their engine management systems are super simple in comparison to the new EDC17 system.

I have a 2010 Golf here that needs a $1600 turbocharger and it only has 57,000 miles. The DPF alone took a good chunk of the afternoon to get off. It has a lambda sensor, two delta pressure sensors, three exhaust temp sensors, $167 apiece pressure-sensing glow plugs, two EGR valves, a throttle valve on the intake, another on the exhaust, a twin-path changeover valve for the intake, three fuel pumps, a diesel particle filter, a de-NOx catalyst, a de-sulfur catalyst, and one of the most complex engine management systems ever known to man (Bosch EDC17). It is, by FAR, the most complex four cylinder engine one can purchase in this country today, even moreso than VAG's own gasoline turbo DI 4 cylinder.

Now I still like these cars, but let's face it, the reality of owning one is not the pie-in-the-sky it was when I bought my first TDI in 1998, that cost a meager $1300 more than an otherwise identical gas version of the same car, smacked down 50+ MPGs right out of the box (compared to ~30 MPG in the gasser... at best), and it did EVERYTHING better. It was better to drive, quieter on the highway, and just plain ran better.

Now, it costs (depending on model/trim) about $5000 more to purchase, gets maybe 7 to 11 MPG better, and has thrice the complexity. Anyone thinking of SELLING a good running PD car should think twice. Anyone selling an ALH car should be slapped. :cool:
 

OlDrifter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Location
Kansas City Area
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Salsa Red
I agree that the mileage savings are somewhat offset by maintenance costs, diesel fuel costs, etc. I was blindsided the first time I took my '06 in for an oil change and found out it needed a bazillion quarts of oil made from the rotting corpses of left-handed, virgin pterodactyls who died before their 3rd birthday. The exotic oils alone gave me pause to reconsider my purchase.

That said- It's a FUN car to drive and I LIKE the technology. I LIKE the fit and finish and interior of my car and I like the torquey engine. Yaris's and Prius's are arguably the ugliest and most boring vehicles ever built and I would rather have that left-handed, virgin pterodactyl stand on my gonads than drive a econo-tincan P.O.S.

I love automobiles. I love old ones, new ones, exotic ones and blue-collar ones. I love Cummins diesels and Mercedes Benz. I love Corvettes and Lotus's. I love superchargers and nitrous systems. I love everything Porsche has ever built and almost everything Land Rover has ever built. I love '40 Fords, '40 Mercs, '56 Ford Pickups and '67 Vettes. I love cars.

I love my TDI (3rd one I've owned) for the same reason I loved my 911, my C6 Vette and my SLK roadster- it's an engineering marvel and it's fun to drive and not everybody you pass is driving one.

Keep your Cruze, your Focus, your Fit and your Prius. Sell them to people who hate automobiles but feel the necessity to own one. They'll never know the difference.

Yes, it might cost me less to operate a Honda Civic than my TDI when all costs are considered including fuel, maintenance, purchase price, resale value, etc. But I'd be bored every time I got in the thing.
 
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D-Cell_Mekanick

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2009
Location
Sandwich, IL
TDI
2015 Honda Civic SE
Rod, all VAG gas engines have the same oil change intervals as the TDIs, and have been that way for quite some time, along with many other gas powered cars.

No tune ups? Can't say I have had to "tune up" any gas cars in the last 10 years either. In fact, their engine management systems are super simple in comparison to the new EDC17 system.

I have a 2010 Golf here that needs a $1600 turbocharger and it only has 57,000 miles. The DPF alone took a good chunk of the afternoon to get off. It has a lambda sensor, two delta pressure sensors, three exhaust temp sensors, $167 apiece pressure-sensing glow plugs, two EGR valves, a throttle valve on the intake, another on the exhaust, a twin-path changeover valve for the intake, three fuel pumps, a diesel particle filter, a de-NOx catalyst, a de-sulfur catalyst, and one of the most complex engine management systems ever known to man (Bosch EDC17). It is, by FAR, the most complex four cylinder engine one can purchase in this country today, even moreso than VAG's own gasoline turbo DI 4 cylinder.

Now I still like these cars, but let's face it, the reality of owning one is not the pie-in-the-sky it was when I bought my first TDI in 1998, that cost a meager $1300 more than an otherwise identical gas version of the same car, smacked down 50+ MPGs right out of the box (compared to ~30 MPG in the gasser... at best), and it did EVERYTHING better. It was better to drive, quieter on the highway, and just plain ran better.

Now, it costs (depending on model/trim) about $5000 more to purchase, gets maybe 7 to 11 MPG better, and has thrice the complexity. Anyone thinking of SELLING a good running PD car should think twice. Anyone selling an ALH car should be slapped. :cool:
:DI won't be selling my PD for at least 5 years or so. Especially since VW just put in a new cam and associated bits and pieces!:D unless the trans goes to hell in a hand basket. Plus I just filled up yesterday and diesel was $3.99 and rug was $3.89, Im making out quite well!
 
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Bkcorso

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
TDI
2001 Golf
Alh, any day... PD...better be a smokin deal, after that I'm not interested, and even tell those who ask to steer clear.

Fuel prices are Bad arguement..I mean really bad...
Upfront cost also a BAD arguement...
Again ALH/PD
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
My suggestion would be if you want to go diesel go with a manual it will save you $$$ and complexity . Alone with all the extra maintenance ..........If you can't go with a stick go with a ricer model it will save you tons in maintenance problems .

All that said I want nothing to do with anything gasoline so if VW offers a diesel anything in a car that is how I will go . Removing all that extra E crap once the warranty is done and getting a ECU reprogram to do away with the regen overfuel event .
 

kirbfucius

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Location
Raleigh, NC USA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
My suggestion would be if you want to go diesel go with a manual it will save you $$$ and complexity.
Is that so? I've certainly seen some people question the longevity of DSGs, but the overall response seems to be that if you maintain it then it will last. Maybe I've only seen the positive responses?
 

SuckingFumes

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Milton, ON, CND
TDI
2011 JSW
To be honest, I can't figure it out.

Looking at the total cost of ownership, I don't know if diesel is cheeper. There is the negatives of the upfront cost to buy a TDI and maintenance costs vs. the positives of fuel efficentcy and higher resell value of the car.

Maintenance costs and resell value are a guess. When I sell the car, I'm assuming I will get more money for a TDI Jetta than a gas model.
But, no one can tell what their maintenance bill will be this year, next year and so on. So, there is no data just a best guess.

As for my maintenance, I've done the cam shaft, immobilizer, and wheel bearing. So did the money I save on fuel pay for parts?

However, if I owned a North American car I would have had more maintenance bills.......I guess.

Personally, I think my car will go to 400k kilometers. That is the life two North American cars.

At the end of the day, I'd buy another TDI. Even though I don't know what the math is.
 

ToeBall

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2010 VW Jetta Wagon TDI
My thought is, if you want an automotive appliance, get a Honda, if you want a car that hit's that sweet spot between economy and driver's car, TDI. Even if they're more maintenance, they'll last forever and be enjoyable. When EFI originally came out on gassers, people were complaining about the complexity there as well. "So many sensors and wires you can't see the engine. I'll stick with my carburetor any day". Of course, years down the road when the engine would need the carb adjusted since it doesn't run as well, the EFI was still running stronger and cleaner with minimal maintenance. Sensors don't wear out. They break if something bad happens to them. As far as maintenance items go, give it time. These engines have been out for 3 years. Wait until you can go to AutoZone and pick up a set of glow plugs. The dealership is always expensive.
 

straightliner

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
n.w.indiana
TDI
09 TDI Jetta
Rod, all VAG gas engines have the same oil change intervals as the TDIs, and have been that way for quite some time, along with many other gas powered cars.

No tune ups? Can't say I have had to "tune up" any gas cars in the last 10 years either. In fact, their engine management systems are super simple in comparison to the new EDC17 system.

I have a 2010 Golf here that needs a $1600 turbocharger and it only has 57,000 miles. The DPF alone took a good chunk of the afternoon to get off. It has a lambda sensor, two delta pressure sensors, three exhaust temp sensors, $167 apiece pressure-sensing glow plugs, two EGR valves, a throttle valve on the intake, another on the exhaust, a twin-path changeover valve for the intake, three fuel pumps, a diesel particle filter, a de-NOx catalyst, a de-sulfur catalyst, and one of the most complex engine management systems ever known to man (Bosch EDC17). It is, by FAR, the most complex four cylinder engine one can purchase in this country today, even moreso than VAG's own gasoline turbo DI 4 cylinder.

Now I still like these cars, but let's face it, the reality of owning one is not the pie-in-the-sky it was when I bought my first TDI in 1998, that cost a meager $1300 more than an otherwise identical gas version of the same car, smacked down 50+ MPGs right out of the box (compared to ~30 MPG in the gasser... at best), and it did EVERYTHING better. It was better to drive, quieter on the highway, and just plain ran better.

Now, it costs (depending on model/trim) about $5000 more to purchase, gets maybe 7 to 11 MPG better, and has thrice the complexity. Anyone thinking of SELLING a good running PD car should think twice. Anyone selling an ALH car should be slapped. :cool:
Good Point Hammer!!

I think that owners will be financially forced to consider removing there emisions when there is a component failure.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
To me this is really not a mystery, as I run an apples to oranges, side by side comparison of a 04 Civic and 03 Jetta TDI. I am actually really happy with both. I am perhaps MORE happy with the TDI and for a lot of reasons.

The 04 Civic has been and continuous to be the figurative and literal "trooper". Honda itself even says the consumable parts are (more) costly. They of course say it in such a way that most people either are tone deaf to it (that is the true intention) or oxymoronincally, take it as part of the reason why it is so economical!! ??? Then literally EVERY (sub to above) vendor makes oem like to aftermarket parts !!!! Now that is (successful) marketing sleuth of hand !!! VW has this going on but it seems to be a smaller scale and velocity. Probably more importantly (for what seems to be the topic and interest for this thread) LIKE miles (120,000 miles specificially) is the most important measure.

Fuel consumption for a daily commute (which is what the Civic was really bought for) 38-42 mpg. In the same commute, the 03 Jetta TDI posts 48-52 mpg. Any one can do the math here. To cut to the chase for the second part: scheduled maintenance is cheaper for the Jetta TDI. Unscheduled maintenance for the Honda Civic has been both more frequent and more expensive.

The other thing is both have oem recommendaions of 10,000 miles intervals for both OCI's AND various "SCHEDULED" maintenance items. One can: 1. use a dealer 2. DIY, 3. independent garage 4. TDI or even Honda guru, 5. ala carte 6. mix and match 7. etc. To make this easy, one can cite the exceptions or UNscheduled maintenance. One can get the price lists for any to all of the options.

My goals for the 04 Civic are a min of 4 timing belt and water pump changes (440,000 miles), of which I have just had one done. My goals for the 03 TDI are to go a minimum of 500,000 miles PLUS+, of which I am @ app 160,000 miles.

I run 20,000 miles OCI's with the 04 Civic. The 03 Jetta TDI sees 25,000 miles OCI with the last one @ 30,700 miles.

If anybody has any questions fire away.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
But the 2003 Jetta easily is far simpler and in the long run will be less to operate than the newer TDIs.
 
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