stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

Mobil 1 synthetic not for VW transmissions

AndyH said:

.

What information do we have? At an undetermined time, Frank asked Mobil a question about (presumably) a VW transaxle application. An unknown person, presumably someone from Mobil Tech services (probably a level-one customer service rep with anywhere from 1 to 90 days experience) said they didn't have a product for VW transaxles.
Andy

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Here is the thread.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=50553

Frank M said:

Here is the thread.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=50553

Your Amsoil predecessor also pushed Amsoil on us in this thread. A recurring problem.

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Thank you very much Frank! Not a problem - it's a GL-4/GL-5 thing and absolutely understandable. For what it's worth: Here's my position from this thread (post 70) (and in other gear lube threads where people select GL-5 fluids) - "... should stick with the recommended 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic. If we select a GL-5 fluid, we can expect synchronizer problems from either friction modifiers (slipping) or extreme pressure additives (sticking, corrosion)."

To my knowledge, the only other AMSOIL dealer active in this thread was Greg - and he wasn't selling anything either - he was asking about the viscosity of the new fluids and looking for shear info. If your definition of 'pushing' is any activity in any forum by a registered vendor, than I respectfully disagree - with both you and jombl.

Please also note, Frank, that you and I are running the same fluids in our transmissions - VWAG G052171A2 - as reported in post 139 of this thread (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1316343&postcount=139).

Andy

I read the whole thread - do not see any pushing - allot of data and I think I got soemthing from this thead. I have been following hoping I would see someone speak of G052182A2 a special fluid formulation with the flexibility to lubricate synchronizers, meshed helical gears, bearings and wet clutches. When it comes to my DSG milage is secondary to the fluids ability to make the trans function at its best. Hopefully that means it will have best longivity. Wear and function or function and wear. If I can get better mileage thats a plus. Does anyone know anything about G052182A2 for the DSG. I would appreciate it. Has anyone even heard of this number in any VW application. My guess is the Motorcycle industry used it first so its out there

I haven't read the manual but how many liters/quarts are needed when changing the transmission oil? Planning on doing the 5th gear upgrade and need to know.

bhuggins said:

I haven't read the manual but how many liters/quarts are needed when changing the transmission oil? Planning on doing the 5th gear upgrade and need to know.

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2 liters. Be sure to stop and get about 2 feet of 5/8" clear, vinyl hose so you can fill from the top of the motor. You can use just about any funnel to feed the hose that gets inserted into the fill hole...

You can also fill from the bottom with any of the in-bottle pumps that are available. The Stalube pumps are available at any of the chain auto parts places. I keep mine in a big zip-lock bag - there's no cleaning after filling the transmission, and the bag keeps the pump clean until you need it again.

Reference post #162 , #172 , #173

Changed the OEM fluid out of my 2004 PD for synthetic 30W Powershift fluid four days ago. Amsoil brand CTJ.

Feels slicker. It may or may not shift better. I never expected to improve shifting but if their has been a change it's for the better or placebo.

Come this January I'll find out how the synthetic 30W does at -5 F compared to the 10W mineral oil.

Does the trans axle really need heavier fluid to last past 500K miles in like new condition? Not likely. If the VW fluid wasn't up to the task it wouldn't be in the gear box. So why did I change out the VW fluid? Guess my life was to boring.

If this fluid makes it through winter performing well I'll catch a sample for a UOA next summer. Be assured I'll test the fluid. Using a non recommended fluid in a gear box is after all an experiment. Simply because it is of a heavier viscosity does not guarantee better protection from wear.

What would be nice is a transmission with temp gage to study before and after transmission temperatures. That much effort may as well wait until after the simple winter shifting test.

I've had the Redline D4 in for a week now, it replaced the Redline MTL that I had in there. Generally I like it, no problems, smooth shifting. It has a bit more precise feel to it, but that could be due to having a full 2 liters in it (I was running on what was left of the MTL after pulling 5th cover to inspect my (then broken) 5th gear. Lost maybe 8-12 ounces?

No major changes which is good, I drive pretty easy - Time will tell.

I had the transmisson output shaft seal changed in my wife's 02 Golf GLS 2.0L gas. I put in Royal Purple trans fluid. Within 8 weeks of that, her 2nd gear started grinding... badly. Every shift when the trans got up to operating temperature, it would grind. ONLY going into 2nd.

Changed back to OEM fluid. Within 2 days, all symptoms were gone.

???

dr.zed said:

I had the transmisson output shaft seal changed in my wife's 02 Golf GLS 2.0L gas. I put in Royal Purple trans fluid. Within 8 weeks of that, her 2nd gear started grinding... badly. Every shift when the trans got up to operating temperature, it would grind. ONLY going into 2nd.

Changed back to OEM fluid. Within 2 days, all symptoms were gone.

???

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I installed Mobil synthetic at one time.
I had the exact same sympton as I posted a long time ago.

I replaced it with the OEM and my problem went away..

That is why I believe it is stupid to use anything but OEM.

Frank wasn't your problem with Mobil the result of using GL-5 in a Gl-4 application. Mobil has for years made synthetic Gl-4 in the guise of Mobiltrans shc 50. The last bit I purchased was under 100 USD for 5 gallons. I also recall that they had an arctic formulation that was thinner.

motorin said:

Frank wasn't your problem with Mobil the result of using GL-5 in a Gl-4 application. Mobil has for years made synthetic Gl-4 in the guise of Mobiltrans shc 50. The last bit I purchased was under 100 USD for 5 gallons. I also recall that they had an arctic formulation that was thinner.

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I find it easier to just go to the dealer and get the OEM
What is price when it comes to a $2000 transmission?

What in the world would I do with five gallons anyway. It holds two liters and I wont change it for another 200k miles.
5 gallons will be out dated by time I would use it again. There will be an updated OEM by then.

I mentioned it only because I thought you were under the
impression that Mobil didn't make a synthetic GL-4 specifically
for manual transmissions. I mentioned the 5 gallon price be-
cause because(other than it being the smallest size available)
it works out to less than $6 a liter. Which I thought was a
superior value.

I'm becoming even more confused !!

I've put off ordering transmission fluid long enough... I asked my favorite supplier up here (Brian H.) to get some G-50 and he comes back saying he stocks G 052 726 A2 ...

Since the car's at 195,000 miles, I figure it's time, but... what do I get ??? I understand that there are (at least) three different G52 oils out there and this one's the latest... but... it's not a synthetic oil, either...

So... what to do ?????

H.E.L.P...

Yuri.

PS: does anyone have the VW part number for the G 50 ?? Is it just "G 005 000" ???

ymz said:

I've put off ordering transmission fluid long enough... I asked my favorite supplier up here (Brian H.) to get some G-50 and he comes back saying he stocks G 052 726 A2 ...

Since the car's at 195,000 miles, I figure it's time, but... what do I get ??? I understand that there are (at least) three different G52 oils out there and this one's the latest... but... it's not a synthetic oil, either...

So... what to do ?????

H.E.L.P...

Yuri.

PS: does anyone have the VW part number for the G 50 ?? Is it just "G 005 000" ???

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Hi Yuri,

Yes - the original G50 is G005000. It's a synthetic 75W-90 GL-4 at about 15.6 cSt. The G052726A2 is the 'latest and greatest' synthetic 'mystery' lube weighing in at 6.3 CSt.

Andy

AndyH said:

Hi Yuri,

Yes - the original G50 is G005000. It's a synthetic 75W-90 GL-4 at about 15.6 cSt. The G052726A2 is the 'latest and greatest' synthetic 'mystery' lube weighing in at 6.3 CSt.

Andy

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Thanks... now... do I want the G005000 or the G052726A2 ????? (the latter's cheaper than the former, as you know...)

Yuri. (Still confused... but that's not unusual...)

Yuri, the G50 is no longer the default fluid. Here's the P/N, I think you've got it correct:



I was told by a vw tech that the new stuff, @ 1/2 the price, is non-syn but offers nearly identical shift characteristics compared to the orginal G50 product used for so many years. He felt is would be fine for those who don't experience winter.

Did you see SUNRG's long thread on gear lubes? They gathered quite a bit of info.

You might wish to consider the AMSOIL GL4 fluid if you have access to that.

dieseldorf said:

... He felt is would be fine for those who don't experience winter...

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Thanks... since I don't forsee changing this stuff too often and since it can get mighty cold up here in the great Frozen North, I think I'll stick with the G50 if my supplier's able to get it when my shipment is put together...

All the best,

Yuri.

2003 TDI Jetta Wagon 195200 miles

ymz said:

Thanks... now... do I want the G005000 or the G052726A2 ????? (the latter's cheaper than the former, as you know...)

Yuri. (Still confused... but that's not unusual...)

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Here's the latest from post 173 with the VW fluids in green:

(Manual Tranny Fluids) (Sorted by viscosity at 100C)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.6 = VW G005000/G005100 GL-4
185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 GL-5
..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 GL-4/-5
132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90 GL-5
177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90 GL-4
133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1
183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) None
208 41.6 9.08 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid None
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 None
..... 35.1 6.38 = VW G-055-726-A2 None
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) None

The synthetics will perform much better for you in the winter (I'm originally from Nrn Michigan - Lake Superior's South shore - so can relate to anyone using petroleum gear lube in the winter - can you say 'two handed shifts'?!) I wouldn't recommend a petroleum gear lube in cold country - for both shifting and fuel mileage.

The original G50 is 'heavier' than the latest G052726A2 (at the bottom of the list). The G52 will give very easy winter shifting and the best fuel mileage. We don't know for sure what it's GL rating is - the bottles aren't labeled with anything but a part number - but VW shouldn't spec a fluid that doesn't meet minimum warranty requirements at least.

Closer to the original G50 you'll see Redline MT90, then AMSOIL, then Redline MTL. Folks in hotter climates have said that MT-90 feels like the OEM fluid but can be stiff in the winter. Folks in cooler climates prefer the smooth cold shifting of the MTL. Hopefully that gives you a 'feel' for the viscosity difference.

I'm using the reallllly thin G52 right now - mainly as a fuel mileage test. Shifting is very light (of course, I'm in San Antonio). I have an old transmission (342,000 miles) and a dieselgeek short shift kit and I have to remember to slow my shifts from 1st to 2nd to keep the synchros from grinding - it shifts very, very easily/quickly/smoothly - even out of gear. There's almost none of the 'feedback' you'd get from pushing thru heavier gear lube.

'Bang for the Buck'...
I paid about $34 per liter for the G052726 at the dealer. If you can get it cheaper than the original G50 then go for it! You can get about 4 quarts of AMSOIL for the price of one G052. Either Redline product should be less expensive as well. The G052 might pay for itself over time in fuel savings and should be the absolute best in winter performance.

I hope that helps a bit Yuri.

Andy

edit: spelling. What's a 'cleaper', anyway?

Much appreciated !!!

Yes, the G052726A2 is, I believe, much cheaper than the G050000, but since the fluid doesn't get replaced all that often (I hope!!), I don't see the price as being the deciding factor.

I was under the impression that the G052726A2 was NOT a synthetic fluid... was I wrong ???

Yuri.

Its odd, but the G052 specified in the 2004 02J trannys is the mineral based G052 (Why not the synthetic G052). I just changed mine and went with the VW fluid, at $9.65 a liter from 1st VW Parts (Auburn VW), mailed to me. I live in a temperate climate. It can get to 10 deg. F. sometimes.

--Nate

Has anyone tried Redline D4 ATF in an 04+ PD-TDI 5-speed transmission? I switched both my PD-TDIs to Redline MTL and the shifting improved a bit (especially in winter), but I'd like to try Redline D4 ATF since it's thinner, and these transmissions seem to like thinner oils. Does anyone have any success stories with this oil?

Ferrari - I think you are correct and Redline D4 is a very good fluid if you have a application. I had a getrag 5 speed once that used 30W and I think this would have been a great fluid in that application. Redline has allot of faith in their D4 product and said it would even work well in a DSG. But they said because of the vast color difference not to use till warrenty was up.

My test of the AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift fluid is going so well it scares me. The transmission shifted better immediately. Then just keeps getting better over the last 5K miles. Change is sometimes unsettling. I'll be pulling a uoa in the spring.

In hot weather it seamed thin. Makes me think a 50W fluid may be better. Something like Mobiles GL-4 fluid.

Side note: Greasing the shift linkage above the transmission on the golf club weight made a great improvement in shifter feel.

My first gear was a nightmare to put in and all other gears where hard to put in.

I remplace the fluid that was in there (looked nice was remplace by the previous owner) with Amsoil MTG 75-90

50 miles later First gear was going in all the time without any effort so are all other gears.

900 miles later it fell even better .

Amsoil Kick Ass !

Btw the Tranny as 267810 miles on it

throwing this in here for fun:

BOSS FULL SYNTHETIC GEAR OIL SAE 75W90​

​

TYPICAL TEST PROPERTIES​

SAE GRADE 75W90
DENSITY @ 15ºC 0.8762
VISCOSITY @ 40ºC,cSt 109
VISCOSITY @ 100ºC, cSt 14.81
VISCOSITY INDEX 141
BROOKFIELD VISCOSITY
Cp @ -40ºC 133,000
FLASH POINT (COC) ºC 204
FIRE POINT (COC) ºC 214
POUR POINT, ºC -47
FOAMING (D-892)​

*tendency (Seq.1​

okay, so i've read a bunch of threads on this stuff, and can't really draw any conclusions for myself :| i'm going to go with a .658 gear, and fill up with new gear oil. is the redline MTL, MT90 or 75w90 G52 "compliant" ? i live in minnesota so cold shifting is important, and i also have a short shifter... i'm wondering do i want to find an OEM g52 fluid online somewhere or one of the redlines from tdiparts? just wanting the best combination of performance/longevity for the tranny...

Has anyone done a VOA on G052?

Do we know what it's viscosity is?

I'm not that happy with the way the car shifts warm or cold and looking for an alternative, perhaps Redline AT4.

spoilsport said:

Has anyone done a VOA on G052?

Do we know what it's viscosity is?

I'm not that happy with the way the car shifts warm or cold and looking for an alternative, perhaps Redline AT4.

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Which G052, Spoilsport? I assume the G052 171 A2 petroleum? If so...the G052 products (171 and 726) and the G055 products are about as thin as you can get - at least 1 cSt lower than the D4ATF.

What's the issue with shifting? How long has the fluid been installed?

AndyH said:

Which G052, Spoilsport? I assume the G052 171 A2 petroleum? If so...the G052 products (171 and 726) and the G055 products are about as thin as you can get - at least 1 cSt lower than the D4ATF.

What's the issue with shifting? How long has the fluid been installed?

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I changed the fluid out at 100K miles, it has 40K on it.

I bought one of the G052 products at the dealer, after asking for G050. I think it had to be the G052 171 A2 petroleum, as this stuff wasn't thin at all.

As far as issues: Shifts are the opposite of buttery smooth. Shifter feels stiff and inaccurate, hesitates before it goes in gear.. especially first. The linkage was adjusted when I had a DG short shift kit installed by DBW 3 years ago.

Maybe it's time for another adjustment.