Toyota will phase out diesels in European passenger cars this year
- Thread starter bhtooefr
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Considering only 15% of their cars sold were diesels and 37% were hybrids in 2016, it makes sense... It's crazy that in 2007, just 11 years ago, 41% of Toyota's sold in Europe were diesel
At least BMW holds strong at 74% of cars sold in 2016 being diesel, and even more shocking, Volvo, who wants only EVs and hybrids by 2019 had a diesel turnover of 83%, the highest out of any manufacture!
I got the numbers from here, a very interesting read
https://www.theicct.org/publications/european-vehicle-market-statistics-20172018
At least BMW holds strong at 74% of cars sold in 2016 being diesel, and even more shocking, Volvo, who wants only EVs and hybrids by 2019 had a diesel turnover of 83%, the highest out of any manufacture!
I got the numbers from here, a very interesting read
https://www.theicct.org/publications/european-vehicle-market-statistics-20172018
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
And they had basically abandoned passenger car diesel development - the 1ND-TV was ancient and never great to begin with from what I understand, and the 1WW and 2WW were just rebadged BMW engines.
They do still do diesels for heavier applications - their trucks get the 1GD/2GD-FTV, for instance.
They do still do diesels for heavier applications - their trucks get the 1GD/2GD-FTV, for instance.
What I find interesting is they threw the land cruiser in the commercial category, even though it's a passenger SUV... Still this quite big news, I think they will be the first automaker in Europe to not offer a diesel in passenger vehicles (less land cruiser), unless I'm forgetting someone who also doesn't offer diesel
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Land Cruiser is a SUV, though, not a passenger car, is the point, though. Sure, it might be designed to take passengers inside, but it's also designed to take a big trailer outside. It's a truck with more seats, not a car.
(Ultimately, I think they should switch to a high-efficiency gasoline engine and hybridize it, too, but...)
(Ultimately, I think they should switch to a high-efficiency gasoline engine and hybridize it, too, but...)
Oberkanone
Top Post Dawg
More diesel fuel available for us.
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
I think you misread Volvo's press release. The wording is a bit vague, but what they say is that they don't want to develop new diesel (and gas) engines, but they fully expect to be a diesel-majority brand in Europe for the next decade. This was also clarified in recent interviews with Volvo managers.
DPM
Top Post Dawg
I'm led to believe this is the last year of diesel for Subaru as well.
andreigbs
Veteran Member
If European cities begin to outright ban diesels, like many are considering, then the days of diesel vehicles are numbered.
This is without taking into account the consequences of dieselgate starting with VW and currently knocking on Benz's doors. Any negative outcome will only hasten diesel's demise.
This is without taking into account the consequences of dieselgate starting with VW and currently knocking on Benz's doors. Any negative outcome will only hasten diesel's demise.
Tin Man
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If they have any sense, and lately there doesn't seem to be much going around, they might realize that ALL internal combustion causes emissions (I know that is obvious, but you know how Orwell felt about this ha ha) and that modern gasoline hybrids pollute more than modern diesels.
My brother in France says they imitate the US economically and politically but 15 years later. That's about right with this anti-diesel nonsense.
TM
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo
Note that it's both petrol and diesel.
Note that it's both petrol and diesel.
Tin Man
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Interesting. Going from about 1% market share for full electrics to 100% in 12 years. That would also add another 10 years for them to eliminate all IC engines off the roads I suppose. We'll see. In the meantime, clean diesels are a great interim solution IMO.
TM
TM
ToxicDoc
Veteran Member
We are in the last phases of the combustion engine for general automotive use. To meet emissions standards the systems have gotten more expensive and complex - DPFs, ULSD, numerous sensors, etc while electric vehicles are on the steep slope of improvement. It's a transition phase like any other - horse to steam, steam to ICE, etc
El Dobro
Top Post Dawg
Actually EVs are coming around again, since they were popular in the early 1900s. Better roads, gas stations and the electric starter are what did them in.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/25/38-percent-american-cars-electric-1900/
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/25/38-percent-american-cars-electric-1900/
Tin Man
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EV's if at all like Tesla will be "remote control" statist dream machines.
ToxicDoc
Veteran Member
Ya, that was because the gas engine vehicle was difficult to operate, not because the EV were so great then lol (low speed and poor range compared with ga engines). Early gas engines had to have each cylinder primed, hand-crank, and god help you if the timing is off because it'll back fire and the crank will break your wrist (chauffeur's fracture).
turbobrick240
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I don't know how many lead acid batteries it took, but some of those early EV's had much better range than you'd think. Much of the country had yet to be electrified though, so recharging on trips could be a challenge.
El Dobro
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turbobrick240
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Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Now there's a guy with a sense of adventure. Some of his recharging methods sound pretty scary: like the x-ray dynamo, and barrel water rheostat!
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
Another thing Toyota is apparently phasing out: Automatic transmissions in non-hybrids.
The new RAV4 is manual transmission only, unless you go for the more expensive hybrid.
The new RAV4 is manual transmission only, unless you go for the more expensive hybrid.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Whereas in the US, your powertrain choices are 2.5 gasoline with 8-speed automatic, or 2.5 hybrid with power split device.
German_1er_diesel
Veteran Member
We get 2.0 gas FWD 6-speed manual and 2.0 gas AWD 6-speed manual, as well as 2.5 hybrids in FWD and AWD.