www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29th, 2009, 09:07   #1
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default Rough Idle and Smoke

I have a 2000 Jetta TDI with 225K miles on it. I recently gave it to my daughter to take to college.

She was driving it the other day when it suddenly began to run very rough. She pulled over fairly quickly, and I went and pulled it home on a trailer. She had driven over 100 miles since her last fuel fill up.

Here are the symptoms: Very rough operation at any speed. White/Gray smoke. When I initially checked the codes it had both a P1556 and P0301. I cleared them and have been unable to replicate them, as I don't want to drive it much.

What I've done: unplug the MAF sensor, with no change in symptoms
cracked the fuel fitting on cylinder one, with fuel present
drained the fuel filter

The timing belt was changed 20K miles ago, and appears to be okay.

I don't have a vag-com to do further detailed investigation.

Any suggestions on where to go from here?

Thanks
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 12:15   #2
puter
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Fuel Economy: 57 mpg
Default

Check the intercooler for oil, do not start or drive it any further until you do.
puter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 12:30   #3
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

Smell the stuff you drained out of the filter. Or sniff the fuel fill nozzle with cap removed. See if you detect the odor of gasoline.

Was oil level low? That could indicate turbo seals leaked, intercooler got filled, and engine ran away.

Ask her if it ever acted like it "took off on its own".

May also want to check the IP/cam/TDC timing.
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 12:48   #4
greengeeker
 
greengeeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cambridge, MN
Fuel Economy: 42.2/50.0/58.1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenkins334
The timing belt was changed 20K miles ago, and appears to be okay.
who replaced it? Are there any paint marks on the cam gear, injection pump gear, belt? Take a close look at your timing belt tensioner - do the marks line up? Is the arm of the tensioner in the correct slot (directly underneath the cam gear)?
__________________
- Nick -
02 Jetta TDI 308k (42.2/50.3/59.4 MPG) // 01 Eurovan 24V (18 MPG) // 00 TDI Ranger (39MPG)
How to Post Pics - How to Search
TDIclub trusted mechanic in Minnesota - PM me
greengeeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 13:51   #5
jettawreck
Veteran Member
 
jettawreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Minnesota-55744
Fuel Economy: 52+ average lifetime '01
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greengeeker
who replaced it? Are there any paint marks on the cam gear, injection pump gear, belt? Take a close look at your timing belt tensioner - do the marks line up? Is the arm of the tensioner in the correct slot (directly underneath the cam gear)?
All very good points. Check them out.
Also, how many gallons did she add 100 miles ago?? Half a tank of diesel topped off w/gasoline by accident can make for a VERY bad running TDI. Take/get a sample of the fuel and compare it to diesel fuel.
What were the VCDS codes description (P1556/0301)?? I don't know them w/o looking them up.
__________________

2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
jettawreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 14:23   #6
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to dig into these tonight.

P0301 is "Cylinder 1 Misfire"
P1556 is "Charge Pressure Contr. Negative Deviation"

I did the "smell test", and the fuel smells strongly like diesel, with no gasoline smell. I'll try to siphon some fuel out of the tank and check it out. My daughter swears she put diesel into it and not gas. My other daughter made that mistake a few years ago, but realized it before she started it. It took me a while to siphon all of the gas out!

I have a friend who did work on diesels years ago, and he suspects that cylinder one is not firing. I have a feeling this could get expensive before all is said and done!

Last edited by jjenkins334; September 30th, 2009 at 17:18.
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2009, 14:35   #7
jettawreck
Veteran Member
 
jettawreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Minnesota-55744
Fuel Economy: 52+ average lifetime '01
Default

Check turbo "charged air" ducts. Sometimes they can come apart at a joint. Loss of boost, smoke, CEL.. Maybe a cheap fix.
__________________

2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
jettawreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 17:07   #8
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by puter
Check the intercooler for oil, do not start or drive it any further until you do.
The intercooler does have a thin coat of oil in it, at least at the output of the connection to the boost intake air line. What would this be an indication of? The oil level on the dipstick has not dropped, and my daughter says there was no runaway condition before it started running rough.

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!



Thanks,

Last edited by jjenkins334; September 30th, 2009 at 17:17.
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 17:53   #9
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

Ok..so far: No runaway, oil level good, no gasoline, #1 misfire code, not much oil in intercooler, smoke, run rough.... Might want to check under cam cover to look at #1 cam lobes. Not too hard to do and no parts needed.
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 18:38   #10
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

Ski,

You're right on the money. I pulled the cam cover right after I posted the last response, and found cylinder one had eaten a valve. I suspect that it probably contacted the piston as well, as the damaged valve is recessed into the seat a good ways.

Is this normally a wear and tear thing, or is it likely something else broke and caused this damage?

Thanks,
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 18:45   #11
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

Cams do wear on these, taking the cam follower with it. Not many fail, just some. Sometimes the damage is limited to the cam and followers, which can all be changed out quite easily. If the tip of the valve stem or the cylinder head casting (aluminum) is damaged, then the cylinder head must be pulled for repair.

Are you sure of your nomenclature? The valve and seat are only visible if you have pulled the head. Have you done that yet?

Can you post photos of the #1 lobes and followers?
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 19:29   #12
greengeeker
 
greengeeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cambridge, MN
Fuel Economy: 42.2/50.0/58.1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenkins334
Is this normally a wear and tear thing, or is it likely something else broke and caused this damage?
it is likely a botched tb job (see post #4)
__________________
- Nick -
02 Jetta TDI 308k (42.2/50.3/59.4 MPG) // 01 Eurovan 24V (18 MPG) // 00 TDI Ranger (39MPG)
How to Post Pics - How to Search
TDIclub trusted mechanic in Minnesota - PM me
greengeeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 19:53   #13
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

I'm sure I'm misusing terminology. The lobes are definitely damaged, and the right circular piece (cam follower?) for cylinder one that goes into the head has it's top broken off. Sorry for not being more technical. The top of the head in front of the cam is damaged as well.

I'm trying to figure out how to make the pictures I took small enough to upload. Right now I get an error message stating they're too large.

I used a different mechanic to do my last timing belt change. Looks like that was a mistake!
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 20:15   #14
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

Here's the damage:


Any opinions?

Last edited by jjenkins334; September 30th, 2009 at 20:21.
jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 20:35   #15
jjenkins334
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: White Post, VA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

Here's one more, a little closer up.

jjenkins334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.12716 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 126.41 Kb. compressed to 105.08 Kb. by saving 21.32 Kb. (16.87%)]