No start high altitude and cold

I was parked on Vail Pass 10,600' and it was around 15F...no start.
Tried today at 10F and 8800'....it started but it wasn't happy about it.

I went to start and it cranked and never caught. It glowed for the 8 seconds. It almost would catch but no luck. I have the upgraded battery cables and I think the battery is strong. After a bunch of cranking it was resting at 12.15V. New glowplugs last winter.

I was able to get a jump start. As soon as I cranked with a jump start it fired right up....with a lot of smoke. I tried a USB jump start battery pack....claims 800a for cranking. It didn't do much for cranking speed.

I am thinking maybe the battery is worn or my starter needs a refresh.

Thoughts?

Someone more technical than I can chime in here, but in my experience over the years, the battery can show 12 volts, but not be able to produce the amperage to get the starter turning well.

Also, I'm not sure about the 8 seconds. In the cold I used to have to cycle my glow plugs for twenty to thirty seconds, wait, then cycle again before she would finally start with lots of black smoke. That doesn't happen any more, but I'm not exactly certain why, as I've changed a ton of stuff including ignition switch, starter, injectors, injector return lines, and even installed a lift pump. My sense of things is that the lift pump has made the biggest difference.

As for the USB jump start, not sure. Compression is much higher on a diesel than a gasser, so it takes a lot of force to turn over the motor.

I would pull the battery and have it tested. As for the starter, in my experience when they start to die, it's either they just stop working, or they fail to fully engage and make an awful, terrible metal on metal sound, and then soon after stop working.

You have to reach the minimum cranking RPM or you get no fuel and no start.

When it's really cold out you need (1) the battery in good condition, so it can provide the current required, (2) all wiring AND GROUNDS must be in excellent condition, so the resistance they offer to current flow is VERY LOW (thus the current required can flow), (3) the starter ITSELF has to be in good condition so the current delivered to it NEARLY ALL gets to the windings and causes the motor to spin at the required rate and (4) any other starting aids -- like glow plugs -- have to actually work and heat properly, not just draw current.

If you started up with a jump the likely problem(s) were in the area of (1), (2) or (3).

The USB "starting jump things" are nearly worthless. They might provide enough power to boost a weak battery in decent (warm, etc) conditions, but their so-called "cranking ratings" are a bad joke.

I need to log my cranking speed with vcds.....

Plugged in right now so I am hoping for a happy start.

Wankel7 said:

I need to log my cranking speed with vcds.....

Plugged in right now so I am hoping for a happy start.

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Also watch the battery voltage when cranking.
If it drops below 9.6 volts the ECU will not work.

Well I shoehorned a H8 AGM battery into the car.

While it cranks a lot faster it happened today. 32F and 11300'. I cranked about 6 times and it just would not catch.

As a last ditch I cycled the ignition four times only glowing no cranking. On the 5th glow I cranked and it started like nothing had happened.

The glow plugs were replaced 2 years ago with Bosch plugs. It wasn't a grumpy start either. No smoke. It just started and idled.

Maybe I have a glow plug issue?

Uh, I don't think so.

Six cranking cycles, no ignition, if you were flowing fuel you should have been pumping white smoke out the back end of the car like someone pouring dry ice into the water.

When it DID fire it would have burned all the excess fuel, and been a nice nasty puff of BLACK (or at least gray) smoke.

So this implies that until the "last ditch" attempt there was no fuel going in, which in turn strongly implies either an electrical problem in that the pump was never asked to supply fuel or the run solenoid did not pull in (either due to electrical or mechanical trouble) until the last crank, when it started.

Genesis said:

Uh, I don't think so.

Six cranking cycles, no ignition, if you were flowing fuel you should have been pumping white smoke out the back end of the car like someone pouring dry ice into the water.

When it DID fire it would have burned all the excess fuel, and been a nice nasty puff of BLACK (or at least gray) smoke.

So this implies that until the "last ditch" attempt there was no fuel going in, which in turn strongly implies either an electrical problem in that the pump was never asked to supply fuel or the run solenoid did not pull in (either due to electrical or mechanical trouble) until the last crank, when it started.

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I was surprised by the lack of smoke.

Hum.

Where should I start?

EGRs gone so no ASV that could have been stuck and popped open, right? (e.g. can't be an airflow problem, plus you should have gotten hella smoke when it lit if that was it as all the extra fuel burned off.)

This is intermittent right? Been ok until today? Doesn't die on you once it starts?

If that fits it then I'd be suspicious of the run solenoid (mechanically, as once in it remains in so it's probably not electrical) or air getting into the pump when it sits (thus no fuel until you can clear it, and a little can make for nasty problems on a start.) A number of years ago I had an air incursion problem that was a royal pain to run down that would usually show up if I started the car cold, pulled it out into the driveway and turned it off. It would then often refuse to start for quite a LOT of cranking -- no smoke, just no fire. If I drove it for a few miles, no problem. It turned out to be an airleak coming from the return lines that, when the "T" was cold, would get back into the pump and if you shut down before it all got pushed through you were screwed. It was the damndest thing to find as the clear line was ok with just a tiny bubble in it, no codes, no obvious problems..... finally did isolate and fix it and no problems since.

When it was very cold, I would cycle my plugs an extra time before cranking and it would start just fine. I just don't think they heat up enough to help start if you're cranking speed is a little slow. This was with new plugs, decent battery, harness in good condition, and deoxidizer sprayed on the contacts for good measure.

Until I changed my starter, I hadn't realized how much slower my cranking had gotten. It slowed down gradually until there was so much gunk stuck in there it wouldn't disengage reliably. New starter cured it and lets me start with a single cycle of the plugs.

I'd crack an injector and see what you're getting for fuel. As has been noted, with all that cranking you should be getting a bunch of white smoke.

Any codes?

Fuel shutoff solenoid might be wonky (it should register a code?).

Before you try to start the car pop the hood, look at the clear fuel line from the filter to the pump.
There should be a small air bubble at the highest point.
I usually have one, 1/2 inch more or less.
If its bigger your getting air in there.
You could check the ASV is open while your in there.

wonneber said:

Before you try to start the car pop the hood, look at the clear fuel line from the filter to the pump.
There should be a small air bubble at the highest point.
I usually have one, 1/2 inch more or less.
If its bigger your getting air in there.
You could check the ASV is open while your in there.

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My bubble is normally small ....almost obscured by the clamp that holds the two hoses. But I haven't looked since the trouble started.

The first time this happened the smoke screen after start was huge. Like my old RX-7 after a hard start