Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

Dangerous_Dan

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Your mileage may vary...

If my Jag was getting 30 MPG on the highway I would send it in for service...
 

kjclow

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Even the ratings for the gas model look low. Ford, Chevy, and Honda are all in the 30s.
 

bhtooefr

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I suspect Mazda's 6-speed automatic is hurting them, not having the right ratio, when most everyone else is moving to 8/9-speed automatics and CVTs.
 

tikal

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After all these years talking about diesel and Mazda is not even close to the Equinox/Terrain MPG diesel models. Ok the absolute mileage values are normally under-estimated by the EPA for light duty diesel cars but we are comparing fairly similar vehicles in my view for long term real life MPG.

Apparently Mazda executives think optimizing for performance in detriment of efficiency will 'pay off' in the USA in the long run.

I doubt it very much.

Looks like EPA fuel economy numbers have been released for the CX-5 SkyActiv-D.

It's... it's not good.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39777&id=40521&id=39781&id=40522



And for CO2 emissions (including upstream) and petroleum consumption...



That's brutal. (There's no smog ratings for the diesels yet.)
 

Tin Man

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I'm averaging 37 mpg with my 535d. The knuckleheads at the EPA say it should be 30.

Just the opposite with our last gasser, a 2008 Buick Enclave. Combined was supposed to be 20. Couldn't get it above 18.

Change your figures by at least 30%. Diesel wins.

TM
 

tikal

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Agree. It is the 'diesel vs diesel' where Mazda is not winning right now. Let's see if Mazda manages to sell a few CX-5 diesels to the public and we start getting real life MPG to compare with the Chevy Equinox diesel.

I'm averaging 37 mpg with my 535d. The knuckleheads at the EPA say it should be 30.
Just the opposite with our last gasser, a 2008 Buick Enclave. Combined was supposed to be 20. Couldn't get it above 18.
Change your figures by at least 30%. Diesel wins.
TM
 

Tin Man

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Agree. It is the 'diesel vs diesel' where Mazda is not winning right now. Let's see if Mazda manages to sell a few CX-5 diesels to the public and we start getting real life MPG to compare with the Chevy Equinox diesel.
My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
 

truman

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I think that may be a good point TM
There may also be a penalty for a low compression ratio
If the diesel premium is low, it could still have a chance in the market
And where does Skyactiv X fit?
 

Oberkanone

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Mazdamatic

I suspect Mazda's 6-speed automatic is hurting them, not having the right ratio, when most everyone else is moving to 8/9-speed automatics and CVTs.

My take is Mazda's 6 speed transmission is adequate for the diesel. Mazda vehicles using the 6 speed are competitive in mpg for the gasoline models. Fuel economy ratings for 6 speed automatic equipped Mazda 6 diesel are quite good in UK.
 

2.2TDI

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My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
The problem isn't what it actually does in real life, it's what's on paper. Right now the diesel CX-5 is an absolute crapshoot because 90% of the population isn't educated enough about cars (let alone diesel), to understand EPA figures are just estimates and a car can either under achieve or over achieve

If I knew absolutely nothing about cars and walked into a mazda a dealer, I would more then likely buy the gasser based off the EPA fuel economy numbers, since the diesel is more then likely to be at least 1500 to 2000 more then the gasser and there is literally zero benefit if we're talking just about fuel economy

I'm really curious how many they sell, but when your diesel model has literally no advantage over the gasser in terms of economy (EPA rated), but costs more, I can't see how it will sell.
 

InfoSec

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I have been waiting for one of these, along with the Forester Diesel, but I'm glad I kept my '10 ML350. Tuned and deleted, I am pulling back 34.5mpg on the hwy at 68mph, fully loading with childrens, big dog, and all of our camping stuff.

If they (Subaru and/or Mazda) would have entered the US market a while ago, I would have considered them just for uniqueness. But now, my ML is unique enough (and I have a bunch of money into it) that I should keep it for a while. I just bought a hitch for it, so hopefully, I can also pull a small trailer when the time comes.
 

kjclow

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My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
I think that it's more indicative of the test not reflecting real world for hybrids and diesels. A lot of hybrids beat the EPA numbers because the are driven more on battery and also have the stop/start feature. Diesels have always done better because the test doesn't take into account the longer distance cruising that more diesel drivers do.
 

tikal

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The problem isn't what it actually does in real life, it's what's on paper. Right now the diesel CX-5 is an absolute crapshoot because 90% of the population isn't educated enough about cars (let alone diesel), to understand EPA figures are just estimates and a car can either under achieve or over achieve

If I knew absolutely nothing about cars and walked into a mazda a dealer, I would more then likely buy the gasser based off the EPA fuel economy numbers, since the diesel is more then likely to be at least 1500 to 2000 more then the gasser and there is literally zero benefit if we're talking just about fuel economy

I'm really curious how many they sell, but when your diesel model has literally no advantage over the gasser in terms of economy (EPA rated), but costs more, I can't see how it will sell.
Good points. The image of the mediocre published MPG numbers is not a good sign for Mazda to launch its diesel engine(s) in North America and compete successfully against the Equinox/Terrain diesel models.

I am thinking of when Honda brought its hybrid Accord for 'performance boost' and the MPG was not that stellar. How well did it sell?
 

2.2TDI

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Good points. The image of the mediocre published MPG numbers is not a good sign for Mazda to launch its diesel engine(s) in North America and compete successfully against the Equinox/Terrain diesel models.
I am thinking of when Honda brought its hybrid Accord for 'performance boost' and the MPG was not that stellar. How well did it sell?
The very first gen? No idea, but I'm guessing not very well considering it was a v6 hybrid (no clue how they thought that would be a good idea).

It will be interesting to see how it does... So far Mazda isn't even listing the diesel on their site, so the epa numbers are still meaningless at this point
 

kjclow

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Good points. The image of the mediocre published MPG numbers is not a good sign for Mazda to launch its diesel engine(s) in North America and compete successfully against the Equinox/Terrain diesel models.

I am thinking of when Honda brought its hybrid Accord for 'performance boost' and the MPG was not that stellar. How well did it sell?
The biggest problem for Honda was that the extra purchase price of the hybrid far exceeded the potential savings. IIRC, it was in the neighborhood of 20-25 years. The other issue was that there was no way to tell the cars apart. That's actually part of why the Prius sold so well in it's earlier days. Everyone was able to recognize that you were making the commitment to "save the planet".
 

kjclow

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Almost 20 k miles on our 18 equinox diesel and its average fuel economy according to fuelly is 42.1 mpg
Those are pretty good numbers. I know my lifetime average in the JSW is below that. For comparison, I'm at about 12k miles on my Ram ecodiesel and it's average is 22.4 mpg.
 

tikal

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Here is a reply to my question I posted today to Mazda USA if it means anything:

"From: "MazdaCustomerExperience@mazdausa.com" <MazdaCustomerExperience@mazdausa.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: Mazda Customer Experience Center - File Number xxxx
Service Request Number xxxx

Dear ,

Thank you for contacting Mazda Customer Experience Center. We appreciate your interest in the Diesel. We are expecting to have a Diesel available in the next few months.

Please keep an eye out on www.insidemazda.com for the most up-to-date information we have available.

If you have any questions in the future, you can reach me directly using the number and extension below. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week!

Sincerely,
Lexi
Representative, Customer Experience"
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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That (may) be good news. I'm holding out hope for it, even though I don't really want a CUV with an automatic.
 

turbobrick240

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Sounds like the same line Mazda has been using for years. With GM axing the Cruze (among others), and bmw ending diesel imports, it's looking like a passenger car diesel revival here may be doa.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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The Cruze is getting axed because it's a car, not because of the diesel. And some media reports say that BMW may bring in a diesel in the new platform X5, even if they dump the diesel in the 3-series.

GM is also stopping production of the Volt, because people no longer want to buy cars. They buy trucks and SUVs. I find this a funny incompatibility between people saying they want to be "green" and drive electric, and then they use a 5,500 lb. pickup to drive to Starbucks.

Be that as it may, I think there's still a market for a small SUV with a diesel. I'm still holding out for Mazda. And Hyundai.
 

turbobrick240

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The Cruze is getting axed because it's a car, not because of the diesel. And some media reports say that BMW may bring in a diesel in the new platform X5, even if they dump the diesel in the 3-series.
GM is also stopping production of the Volt, because people no longer want to buy cars. They buy trucks and SUVs. I find this a funny incompatibility between people saying they want to be "green" and drive electric, and then they use a 5,500 lb. pickup to drive to Starbucks.
Be that as it may, I think there's still a market for a small SUV with a diesel. I'm still holding out for Mazda. And Hyundai.
It is a bit sad how bigger and bigger vehicles seem to be what Americans want. But economy cars like the Civic, Corolla, etc. still sell well. Too bad because the Cruze, Volt, Focus, and Fiesta were all decent cars. I see hard times coming for the big 3, again. I have a hard time envisioning GM's 1.6 diesel hanging around long in this market.
 

kjclow

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There was talk about GM putting the Volt technology package into a CUV platform. I wonder if that's still on the table or if it dies with the Volt.
 

El Dobro

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There was talk about GM putting the Volt technology package into a CUV platform. I wonder if that's still on the table or if it dies with the Volt.
The same basic trans that the Gen 2 Volt uses is in the Hybrid Malibu, so I would imagine they would drop it in a plug-in CUV. Mary Barra keeps on saying she's committed to electrification.
 

GoFaster

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The Equinox uses the same/similar front subframe as the Cruze. The powertrain will fit, they would just have to find someplace to put the battery. A battery the same shape as the Volt's will not fit the Equinox floor pan - but the battery doesn't have to be the same shape.
 

tikal

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To stay on topic: I agree that IF Mazda brings a diesel vehicle to the US in 2019 it will be in the form of a CUV/SUV, most likely the CX-5 and/or CX-9. Of course, close to zero chance of getting a wagon type car, diesel, gasoline or any other kind of engine for that matter :-(
 

turbobrick240

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The skyactiv x system sounds like it still needs some more developement. All that knock/detonation can't be good for longevity. It'd be great if they can solve that issue. Gas is about 80 cents cheaper per gallon in my area right now.
 
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