Converting AAZ to m-tdi

Runninwild

Veteran Member
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Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
TDI
AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
Hey guys. I'm new to the forum. I have been in the idi world a few years and recently build an AAZ for a Suzuki samurai. My plans changed and I ended up selling the truck and keeping the AAZ which I most recently swapped into a 2000 Toyota Tacoma rock crawler. I still got a bit of wiring to clean up and have an exhaust made but it should hopefully be on the road pretty soon.

The engine is currently
complete bottom end rebuild with a new oem head and arp head and main studs
giles pump
holset he221w turbo
g60 intake

And im guessing its good for around 150-170hp around 27psi

Anyways the motor was built for a samurai which the drivetrain cant really handle a ton of power. Now that Its in a beefier and heavier Tacoma it would be nice to squeeze some more power from it and improve its efficiency.

I'm aware all I really need is an ahu head, pistons and a rover 200/300 pump. Would my bolt-ons, AAZ cam and .216 injectors be good for 250-300hp reliably? At what point is a block girdle recommended? does anyone have a cad file of a girdle they would care to share?


I've also read a bit about people using different pistons and rods from across the tdi designs. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should look for as I slowly acquire parts? I'm not wanting to go all out and spend a ton on h beam rods and high end pistons, merely looking for the best bang for the buck options I can find?
 
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ketchupshirt88

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Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
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2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
the .216 nozzles are too small to hit that goal, id say R520s or you can order something bigger from europe.

im running that turbo and R520 nozzles and still cannot spool it as soon as id like... it hits hard at ~3k, but weak before that. Granted, part of my problem is that im learning to tune it myself as i go...

how low in the rpms and how hard your torque peak hits determines whether you need to beef up the bottom end with rods, pistons, girdles etc.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Link the pics with tags rather than the [img] tags th...overnor smaller nozzles will aid in longevity
 

Runninwild

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Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
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AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
I don't know why the pics showed up so big. other forums I posted them on came up regular size. I removed them...

what size he221 are you running? I have one with a 5.5cm housing, was hoping it would spool a bit quicker then 3000rpm. I originally had a he211 in it but buddys kid jammed a screw driver in the turbo and broke the compressor wheel when it was in his garage for 3 months. Couldn't find parts for it so I went with the 221 incase I ever need to rebuild the thing.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
I know you're going to hate me for saying it but 300hp with a mechanical governor is pretty much top end internals and late spooling turbo territory. Precise torque and timing control is what makes the 300+hp motors live, which you sadly can't get with a mechanical gov pump.

You can set it up with a turbo that'll spool early, but you're going to want to dial the fuel back to where it's a dog on the top end as if all that fuel's available low in the revs you'll break parts in a hurry. Torque control through limited low end airflow is a solid if smoky strategy.

Main girdles don't help much on these, it's more pistons, rods, and the head gasket sealing that fails. The block and crank are stout as heck.

Were I you, I'd leave the engine largely as is for now and build up an automatic. Then it can spool way late with no huge trouble as you can get boost through stalling the converter, there's no lag on shifts, and it's easier to avoid accidentally lugging it into boost when you've got a loose converter.
 

Runninwild

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Location
vancouver
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AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
300 was just a random number i picked. I dont have a goal in mind mainly just looking to see what parts I should gather and what potential id be looking at vs my aaz. Going auto isn't an option. Id be happy with 250ish hp if that's possible and reliable?

I was originally planning on sending my pump back to giles for a retune. I grabbed it 2nd hand and it was underfueled even for my he211. But I'm thinking for the same cost or less even I could go mtdi and have more power and efficiency and still be able to sell my pump and head and recover a good portion of the cost involved.
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
what size he221 are you running? I have one with a 5.5cm housing, was hoping it would spool a bit quicker then 3000rpm.
Mines a 6cm. Your 5.5 will be a little better.

Also keep in mind the part where my tuning is a work in progress. I’m hoping to get it down a couple hundred still...
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
M-TDIs never make the same power as E-TDIs with the same fuelling hardware mods and turbos, and AHU never make the same power as ALH built up. So there are three options:
  1. Dial-down your HP expectations for a given hardware configuration.
  2. Expect higher required specs to achieve a certain HP target than you think
  3. Go with electronic controls. It's not that difficult. Our BC compatriot in Quesnel David Marshall can set you up with an essentially plug-n-play harness for whatever your conversion.

Edit: In any case, you'll need a lot more for your 250-300. Is that your target? You can forget that with an M-TDI of pretty much any level of tune, at least I haven't seen or heard of one unless we're talking about something really crazy and wild as Andy2 has done.
 
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Runninwild

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Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
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AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
Well whats a realistic output for ahu mtdi with arp head and main studs, aaz cam, g60 intake and a holset he221w as mtdi vs etdi? How would that compare to just leaving it as an aaz? Can a barebones harness/tune be used with my block or is the crank sensor essential? I dont have a set goal im just figuring if going mtdi gains me 50-75hp over my aaz just by changing the head, pistons and pump at little expense it's worth it, especially if it improves fuel economy noticeably and low end torque. How much more capable is the alh vs the ahu? I heard they had about the same potential but the alh had a stronger bottom end?

At the end of the day my injection pump doesnt put out enough fuel for my turbo. A $1400 rebuild is in order. For that much or less I could make it mtdi and recover some funds selling my head, pistons and pump. I know swapping in another motor is probably easier but I've got a grand in machining work in this block and a few hundred in arp studs id rather not take a huge loss on just to swap in a motor with 300k on it...
 

ketchupshirt88

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Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
i think 200 at wheels is a more realistic, reliable and attainable number, but if its never gonna see a dyno, all you really care about is how it FEELS to drive. torque and responsiveness.

The TDI engines are more efficient and more low down torque than IDI. I dont think you will be disappointed by doing it on either count if you find the AAZ mostly acceptable in your swap.

You will definitely have more fuel... The giles pump is likely a 10mm plunger? built from a TD pump with some TDI pump internals? the rover pump is an 11mm. Going from 10mm to 11mm is like a 20% increase. think area, not diameter. not to mention upgraded nozzles.
 

Runninwild

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Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
TDI
AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
200 at the wheels would be plenty. My "goals" were at the crank. Im Basically figuring out if its worth the hassle or not, like if its gonna be a good noticeable improvement.

So back to my other question. What factory rods and pistons would everyone suggest?
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
Stock AHU or ALH stuff should be ok because with that turbo you aren’t going to have a huge torque spike at lower rpm. That hard hit at low rpm is what kills bottom ends.

Really early tdi pistons have the top ring closer to the top of the pistons, you don’t want that. Probably only see it on 1996-97 cars.

If you want stronger than stock ALH stuff, there are pd rods and pistons that fit the AHU/ALH crank
 

Runninwild

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Location
vancouver
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AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
So pd rods and pistons would be the ideal choice?

anyone ever run these rods? https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-VW-Vol...op=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=pd150+rod&_from=R40&rt=nc they seem extremely cheap for h beam...

I've had trouble tracking down information. do the pd rods have a different big end diameter then the aaz/ahu or alh? what about length? would a pd crank fit my aaz block? I have the older keyway design pulley and might as well upgrade to the d sprocket if it means stronger rods? I also think I remember reading something about clearancing the bottom of the cylinders for the rods?


The nural asv alh pistons arnt terribly expensive and seem to be well reviewed other then they are shorter then stock and require having the block decked? I also read something somewhere that the pd rods are longer and would work without machining?


Is the aaz cam too aggressive to the point that the piston bowls need to be modified?
 
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ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
ALH has a similar high top ring, just like gas motors
interesting, i could have sworn that i read it as only the 1Z getting those.

i thought there was a thread showing a bunch of pistons side by side showing the changes over the different engines... cannot seem to find it now.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
I believe the north american 1z had pistons without the bronze bushings for the wrist pin and possibly also a lack of an iron inserted top ring land
The european 1Z pistons are actually pretty well regarded in comparison, p0wer on here's making 350ish with them.
 
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