PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

SUNRG

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Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
dhdenney said:
I read on the board that the EGR cooler can go from ok to very bad very fast. I'm not saying I know better than you though. ;)
this, unfortunately is the truth, and i recommend against making a long trip in your PD. if it were mine, i wouldn't. maybe the VW dealer can give you loaner?

alternatively, you could rent a car for the trip. the timing of this issue does suck, and it's up to you, but i would drive as little as possible until the repair is complete.

merry x-mas!!
 

Sloppy Snood

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Jan 1, 2006
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Midwest
TDI
Passsat
Took the Elf Evolution CRV 0W-30 Plunge

Sloppy just purchased his 6 liters of Elf Evolution CRV 0W-30 and filter elements for his 2005 Passat TDI GLS from danix and TDIParts.com. The Passat was purchased used. The previous owner had a oil&lube company use the Castrol Syntec (I know its not 505.01 approved) for his oil change at 12K miles. As I am rapidly approaching 22K, I went ahead and ordered 2 Amsoil oil sampling kits and the Amsoil oil extractor from Andy. I also purchase a Pela 650 Oil extractor from Jerry Bleach in order to top change the oil.

Sunrg - Would you like an additional dirty Castol Syntec oil UOA and an additional VOA (and 10K UOA later) for the Elf CRV 506.01 0W-30 for the war effort? Can't wait until the Elf 506.01 gets here! :cool: -Sloppy
 
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SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Sloppy Snood said:
Sloppy just purchase his 6 liters of Elf Evolution CRV 0W-30 and filter elements for his 2005 Passat TDI GLS from danix and TDIParts.com. The Paasat was purchased new and the previous owner had a oil&lube company use the Castrol Syntec (I know its not 505.01 approved) for his oil change at 12K miles. As I am rapidly approaching 22K, I went ahead and order 2 Amsoil oil sampling kits and the Amsoil oil extractor from Andy. I also purchase a Pela 650 Oil extracor from Jerry Bleach in order to top change the oil.

Sunrg - Would you like an additional dirty Castol Syntec oil UOA and an additional VOA (and 10K UOA later) for the Elf CRV 506.01 0W-30 for the war effort? Can't wait until the Elf 506.01 gets here! :cool: -Sloppy
wow Sloppy - you've purchased some excellent products ;) skip the VOA, since i've already had one done through Andy/Amsoil (click the link in my signature for details, it'll take you to the first FAQ post). i think you should get the syntec lab analyzed when it comes out, primarily because it'll give you a baseline to know how well the Elf 506.01 performs (via comparison). it'll also be neat to see how it compares to 505.01 UOAs from passats in your ODO range - but i've long suspected the castrol syntec is identical to castrol's 505.01... [just a suspicion, with no inside data to back it up].

i'd pick up some rhino ramps too, if you don't already own some, then use the procedure below for the most complete oil change (a benefit since you're removing syntec and installing evolution):
  1. extract an oil sample using the procedure described in my signature link
  2. drive up on ramps and pull the oil drain plug
  3. remove oil filter and suction extract all oil from the filter housing and oil cooler (beneath housing)
  4. recycle your oil drain plug and install a magnetic drain plug from www.metalnerd.com
  5. install new oil filter after replacing seals
  6. refill with oil, drive a few miles to a level spot, check and top-off oil to the upper bend on the dipstick (maximum allowable safe oil volume).
10 washers from the dealer would probably cost you $10, so IMO the metalnerd drain plug is a no brainer easy upgrade.

cheers !
 

Sloppy Snood

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Midwest
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Sloppy's Spending Money Again

SUNRG said:
wow Sloppy - you've purchased some excellent products ;) skip the VOA, since i've already had one done through Andy/Amsoil (click the link in my signature for details, it'll take you to the first FAQ post). i think you should get the syntec lab analyzed when it comes out, primarily because it'll give you a baseline to know how well the Elf 506.01 performs (via comparison).
Once I get the kits from Andy and the Elf oil and filters, I'll post the day I sent the Castrol Syntec in for Amsoil UOA.

SUNRG said:
it'll also be neat to see how it compares to 505.01 UOAs from passats in your ODO range - but i've long suspected the castrol syntec is identical to castrol's 505.01... [just a suspicion, with no inside data to back it up].
Yes it will. Being a chemist myself, the only difference I would expect to see is a little Boron or Selenium added to enhance the Syntec formula to the 505.01 Castrol formula (i.e. not much real difference)

SUNRG said:
i'd pick up some rhino ramps too, if you don't already own some,
I'm going to pass on the ramps since I own my own 5-ton hydraulic truck lift:D .

SUNRG said:
recycle your oil drain plug and install a magnetic drain plug from www.metalnerd.com
Just ordered the magnetic drainplug and 10 copper washers from MetalNerd.

Thank you for the assistance SUNRG! -Sloppy Snood :eek:
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Sloppy Snood said:
Once I get the kits from Andy and the Elf oil and filters, I'll post the day I sent the Castrol Syntec in for Amsoil UOA.

Yes it will. Being a chemist myself, the only difference I would expect to see is a little Boron or Selenium added to enhance the Syntec formula to the 505.01 Castrol formula (i.e. not much real difference)

I'm going to pass on the ramps since I own my own 5-ton hydraulic truck lift:D .


Just ordered the magnetic drainplug and 10 copper washers from MetalNerd.

Thank you for the assistance SUNRG! -Sloppy Snood :eek:
You're welcome! I need to find a local TDI club crony with a 5-ton lift!! ;)
 

spicy_red

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Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagon TDI, highline, 6MT, multimedia, plat grey metallic
UOA at 56,288kms

- follow up sample for positive glycol at 53,411kms
- 2nd result positive glycol
- car goes in tomorrow for troubleshooting, possible EGR Cooler?

- this is the first sample for ELF 505.01 oil, unfortunately now contaminated with glycol.... Previous samples with Motul.

Can be viewed at:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3329/57680_4WD03894_N030-36003-0348_AR.PDF
 

SUNRG

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Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
spicy_red said:
- follow up sample for positive glycol at 53,411kms
- 2nd result positive glycol
- car goes in tomorrow for troubleshooting, possible EGR Cooler?

- this is the first sample for ELF 505.01 oil, unfortunately now contaminated with glycol.... Previous samples with Motul.

Can be viewed at:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3329/57680_4WD03894_N030-36003-0348_AR.PDF
if it makes you feel any better, i had just put Elf 507.00 in my X's Jetta, driven it for a few days when the Motul 505.01 UOA came back as positive for glycol - so as soon as the Elf 507.00 went in it was becoming contaminated. i didn't look at the work order, but i assume they change the oil during the EGR cooler replacement process...
 

Sloppy Snood

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EGR Cooler/Glycol Problem: What's Impacted?

SUNRG said:
if it makes you feel any better, i had just put Elf 507.00 in my X's Jetta, driven it for a few days when the Motul 505.01 UOA came back as positive for glycol - so as soon as the Elf 507.00 went in it was becoming contaminated. i didn't look at the work order, but i assume they change the oil during the EGR cooler replacement process...
SUNRG - Is the EGR cooler/glycol problem most prevalent with the 2004+ TDI PD's? Is this problem being reported with pre-2004 TDIs? And is it model specific (Passat, Jetta, Golf, etc.)? Just curious because I definitely want to keep an eye on my UOA for glycol problems since a fair number have been reported. Thank you. -Sloppy
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Sloppy Snood said:
SUNRG - Is the EGR cooler/glycol problem most prevalent with the 2004+ TDI PD's? Is this problem being reported with pre-2004 TDIs? And is it model specific (Passat, Jetta, Golf, etc.)? Just curious because I definitely want to keep an eye on my UOA for glycol problems since a fair number have been reported. Thank you. -Sloppy
it's a 1.9 PD issue, but it's hit and miss. you have a 2.0 PD and i don't recall any EGR cooler issues in a 2.0, so i think you're safe.
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Noteables:
  1. Si = 7, which is significantly higher than the other 505.01 oils (all others are either 1 or 2). so, if you switch to this oil, have a used sample lab analyzed and the Si jumps up from your previous UOAs, that's probably normal and not an air filter or other problem.
  2. TBN = 8.83, the lowest of all 505.01 oils. probably still more than adequate for 10k OCIs, especially once ULSD hits.
  3. V@100C = 12.92, the lowest of all 505.01 oils. again, probably not a negative issue, but this oil's starting viscosity is only 0.52 cSt from a 30 weight
let the testing begin!



all VOAs, including this one, are here
 

bjmarler

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Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Location
Tullahoma, TN
TDI
Jetta GLS, 2004, White
I just changed my oil. I used the Elf 505.01. So far I have used Castrol, Motul, and Pentosyth(?). I swear the Elf has made my engine quieter than all the others. Am I dreaming?
 

danix

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Joined
Oct 5, 2000
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
None now. Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
bjmarler said:
I just changed my oil. I used the Elf 505.01. So far I have used Castrol, Motul, and Pentosyth(?). I swear the Elf has made my engine quieter than all the others. Am I dreaming?
I have heard this from other people as well, so it's not placebo.
I sell both Elf and Pentosynth so it's not bias on my part :)
My ALH engine runs quieter with Elf LDX than with any other standard 505.00 oil I've tried.
 

Zero10

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Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Location
Calgary, AB
TDI
05 Golf TDI PD, Tiptronic
Dropped my oil off for testing today.
Should give another sample of factory-fill oil at the first oil change. Can't wait to see the results.
 

fitzski

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Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
Just pulled my 10,000 mile (~16,000 km) UOA sample on the Liqui Moly 5W-40 505.01. I've left the oil in for now; I'll make a decision on changing it when I get the results back. I didn't top-up at all through the two samples - it really didn't need any at 5,000 miles, but now at 10,000 miles, it's at the bottom of the hash mark.

Results some time next week, I expect.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Location
Midwest
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Passsat
Sloppy's '05 Passat: Castrol Syntec Out, Elf Evolution 0W30 CRV 506.01 In

SUNRG said:
wow Sloppy - you've purchased some excellent products ;) skip the VOA, since i've already had one done through Andy/Amsoil (click the link in my signature for details, it'll take you to the first FAQ post). i think you should get the syntec lab analyzed when it comes out, primarily because it'll give you a baseline to know how well the Elf 506.01 performs (via comparison). it'll also be neat to see how it compares to 505.01 UOAs from passats in your ODO range - but i've long suspected the castrol syntec is identical to castrol's 505.01... [just a suspicion, with no inside data to back it up].
SUNRG - Just changed the Valvoline SynPower (Sloppy was wrong on the initial oil brand) out (bottom drain plug method since Pela 650 is on backorder at Jerry Bleach's). Removed the oil filter and used oil from the housing utilizing the Amsoil Hand Pump AndyH sent me (great guy; lent me his while my hand pump was on backorder:) ). Normal recovered UO volume at 3.7-3.8 quarts. Elf Evolution 0W-30 CRV 506.01 now in the motor, new oil filter and o-rings, new cabin filter, new air filter, and swept snowscreen with vacuum. I need to replace the fuel filter tonight. Noticed that it is much easier to change oil filter and fuel filter with the "center of engine bay" housing locations. I will edit this post with the mileage information later this evening. - :D Sloppy Snood :D
 
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quartermeter1999

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Location
Huntsville Ala
TDI
2006
How would VWoA know that you didn't change oil at 10k miles??

I've done my second change with 10,200 miles on my 06 Jetta with Motul 505.01 oil.

After reading on this site I'd like to now use the Elf 506.01 oil and go for a longer than 10k mile OCI.

I would do an analysis at 10k miles and see what it said. Then if recomended I would go on to 15-20k miles.

I have my receipts from TDI parts for oil and filters.

I would just feel better about the long term results from using the Elf 506.01 Pure Synthetic oil.

I wish they VWoA would appreciate that.

Let me know what you think.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Oil of Sloppy: It's Actually Valvoline SynPower

Sloppy Snood said:
SUNRG - Just changed the Valvoline SynPower (Sloppy was wrong on the initial oil brand:mad: ) out (bottom drain plug method since Pela 650 is on backorder at Jerry Bleach's). Removed the oil filter and used oil from the housing utilizing the Amsoil Hand Pump AndyH sent me (great guy; lent me his while my hand pump was on backorder:) ). Normal recovered UO volume at 3.7-3.8 quarts. Elf Evolution 0W-30 CRV 506.01 now in the motor, new oil filter and o-rings, new cabin filter, new air filter, and swept snowscreen with vacuum. I need to replace the fuel filter tonight. Noticed that it is much easier to change oil filter and fuel filter with the "center of engine bay" housing locations. I will edit this post with the mileage information later this evening. - Sloppy Snood :D
SUNRG - Sloppy messed you up a little bit. :eek: Sorry. Closer examination of the oil change receipts for the '05 the Passat revealed that the previous owner was running Valvoline SynPower (as opposed to Castrol Syntec as originally thought)!

Oil change intervals from the previous owner are as listed below:

00,000 miles ---> VW Factory Oil 505.01
06,099 miles ---> Valvoline SynPower 5W-30
13,966 miles ---> Valvoline SynPower 5W-30

First oil change intervals from Sloppy Snood are as listed below:

24,070 miles ---> Elf Evolution 0W-30 CRV 506.01 :D Passat burped and said "Thank you." :) OEM oil filter from World Impex installed and MetalNerd magnetic drain plug installed.

SUNRG - Do you need a Valvoline SynPower VOA for the war effort? Sloppy has 1 more Amsoil sample kit available for use after he finds out the SynPower oil weight. Let me know. - :D Sloppy Snood :D
 
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SUNRG

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Location
Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Sloppy Snood said:
SUNRG - Do you need a Valvoline SynPower VOA for the war effort? Sloppy has 1 more Amsoil sample kit available for use after he finds out the SynPower oil weight. Let me know. - :D Sloppy Snood :D
no VOA needed, but if you extracted a used sample of the SynPower using this technique (or similar - so we know it's a good representative sample) then sending it off to a lab for a UOA would be awesome.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Sloppy's Valvoline SynPower Off to OAI for UOA Testing

SUNRG said:
no VOA needed, but if you extracted a used sample of the SynPower using this technique (or similar - so we know it's a good representative sample) then sending it off to a lab for a UOA would be awesome.
SUNRG - Sloppy used that exact instruction. ;) The dipstick length was marked on the Amsoil extraction tubing so that the tip would be in the middle of the oil sitting in the oil pan. Oil sample was withdrawn after a 2-mile run to warm the engine up to operating temperature. Therefore, the UOA for the SynPower should be a representative analysis. Off it goes to O.A.I. Testing. :) - Sloppy :eek:
 
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spicy_red

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Feb 7, 2003
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagon TDI, highline, 6MT, multimedia, plat grey metallic
Sloppy Snood said:
Sloppy used that exact instruction. ;)
Sloppy's 3rd person references remind me of "Jimmy" in Seinfeld... hehehe :D

Hey Sloppy, thanks for the link in you sig, got signed up yesterday!

SR
 

Zero10

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Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Location
Calgary, AB
TDI
05 Golf TDI PD, Tiptronic
Test results are in.
This is at 8100km's on the factory fill:

Tin: 3
Lead: 9
Copper: 14
Aluminum: 15
Silicon: 17
Iron: 67
Chromium: 5
Silver: 0
Zinc: 680
Magnesium: 2
Nickel: 0
Barium: 0
Sodium: 3
Calcium: 1500
Vanadium: 0
Phosphorus: 581
Molybdenum: 0.9
Boron: 1
Maganese: 4
Viscosity (D445) @ 100*C: 11.53
Water (D4007): 0
Solids (D4007) %v/v: 0.1
Glycol: no
Fuel dilution: no

Tests indicate oil and filter need to be changed:
Soot(low), Dust/dirt(low-moderate), chrome steel wear(low-moderate), aluminum wear(low-moderate)


Sorry for the weird format, I'm transcribing from a PDF.
I wish they had given me a number for soot, but that's not big deal I suppose. I opted not to do TBN, since they offered 2 tests, and I didn't know which one to do.
 

Zero10

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Jan 16, 2004
Location
Calgary, AB
TDI
05 Golf TDI PD, Tiptronic
Looking at it, I seem to be in the high end of the wear metals concentrations.
I wonder if the environmental conditions had anything to do with it?....
About 95% of the OCI was short-trips, rush hour, and 4-6 cold starts every day.
I suppose this might almost fit in the 'extreme duty' category. There is also 1-2 weeks of -20*C weather with no block heater in there....
 

quartermeter1999

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Sep 1, 2005
Location
Huntsville Ala
TDI
2006
How would VW know??

quartermeter1999 said:
I've done my second change with 10,200 miles on my 06 Jetta with Motul 505.01 oil.

After reading on this site I'd like to now use the Elf 506.01 oil and go for a longer than 10k mile OCI.

I would do an analysis at 10k miles and see what it said. Then if recomended I would go on to 15-20k miles.

I have my receipts from TDI parts for oil and filters.

I would just feel better about the long term results from using the Elf 506.01 Pure Synthetic oil.

I wish they VWoA would appreciate that.

Let me know what you think.
How would VW know If you changed at 10k miles or 20k miles?????

I'm just thinking that the 20k mile extended oil changes using ELF 506.01 would be much better on your engine in the long run.

thanks
 
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dhdenney

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Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
quartermeter1999 said:
How would VW know If you changed at 10k miles or 20k miles?????

I'm just thinking that the 20k mile extended oil changes will be much better on your engine in the long run.

thanks
Probably has to do with your receipts and the amount of oil/filters purchased. Just guessing, but if you needed warranty work at 22K miles, then you would have to have at least receipts for at least 3 filters and 15L of oil. That's enough for service at 5K, 10K, and 20K. If you purchased 2 cases oil and a case of filters then you might get away with. Do they do oil analysis? If wear metals are above average then they might suspect you didn't change your oil at 10K. That's my .02. I might be totally off cuz I have no experience in the warranty dept. I often pondered holding my drain intervals over, but I decided no, that I better have some oil and filter receipts.
 

quartermeter1999

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Joined
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Location
Huntsville Ala
TDI
2006
Well a receipt for 22 liters of CRV 0-30 Evolution and 4 filters from Danix should fill that qualification.

I have receipts for the first 2 changes which got me to 10,000 miles.

The above will get me to 60,000 miles and out of my warrenty period.

I just hate leaving the 505.1 oil in for 10,000 miles. I may change it at 5000 miles also and go with the 506.01 at that point.

thanks james
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
below is Thermographer's most recent UOA.
5.3k miles (oil sampled, not changed), Elf Solaris 507.00 oil.

24ppm Fe and a Fe wear rate of 4.54ppm / 1000 miles

this is a world of difference from a previous UOA in this same vehicle with 230ppm Fe and a 19.00ppm / 1000 miles wear rate (Castrol 505.01) [ link ]

 
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