Old vs new tdi

Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Location
Orillia
TDI
1999.5 jetta tdi
Hi I've been driving a 1999.5 alh jetta (stock) for 3 years and before that for 3 years I owned a 1999.5 alh golf with upgraded clutch and Malone 1.5 tune. Had more power in it but all electronics failing so for my jetta I went bone stock and basic roll up Windows and no upgrades. Now I'm debating buying a newer model with more power as I want to tow a 1000 pound pop up tent trailer on long trips. I can do it with my jetta, but when driving on the highway I drop to 80 and have to go into 4th gear when climbing steep hills. So basically I'm wondering if the newer models are as dependable as the alh.I have 522,000 km on mine.
Thank you for any ones time .
 

New Mickey

The user formerly known as mickey
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Location
Utah
TDI
2015 Passat
I don't see any way you could know the answer until the latest ones have a ton of miles on them. Mechanically speaking I'd like to think they're at least as strong as the old ones. Electronically.....I doubt it. Not because VW forgot how to make cars, but because complexity breeds problems. I try not to think about what's behind the dash of my 2015. It's frightening.

-mickey

p.s. If I were you I wouldn't make a decision until you get a good look at the new Mazda CX-5 diesel.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I had a MkVI that got rearended and totalled. I took the payout and bought an ALH. Very glad I did, the complications of the electrics on
the more recent vehicles are their achilles heal IMO. Mechanically they may well last as long as the old technology, but electrically they will not in my experience.

Do yourself a favor and upgrade your existing ride, though I hardly think complaining about not being able to cruise up a hill at 80 with
a trailer is valid. Wanna' do that?, get a pickup with a big motor, and
pay the price at the gas pump.

My $.02,
R*2
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
We pulled a tent trailer with our 2000 GTI VR6 all over the place. The 2000 VR6 was a powerful engine in its day but your ALH can make similar HP however the torque of the diesel is amazing. I think the numbers for the VR6 were: ~170hp/170tq. Our ALH was dyno'd at 160hp/313tq.

The ALH is simple enough and can make quite a bit of power with some bolt on upgrades and a tune.

I think the MK4 platform is great to make a tow vehicle. I did it with the Beetle :)

Stick with a standard gearbox and away you go. Also, keep in mind that pulling in 4th loaded, is better than 5th based on the design of the 5 speed gearbox. Cruising in 5th on flat roads should work fine.

When pulling our 2000 lbs plus trailer through the hills in BC, we have to slow down on the long hills and pull it up in third gear but I am talking about some very steep long hills, 10% grades and 5 kms long.

We have a DSG transmission in our 07 GTI and although it is a great piece of engineering, I am not too sure how it would like the added weight of a trailer.

 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I'm pretty sure judging by the 522k km mention that OP is referring to 80kph, which is like 50 in 'Murican.
Oops, and I even know where Orillia is, sorry Chris, my apologies.
My point still stands, upgrade your current ride, diesels make good
tow vehicles. Tune and some bigger nozzles, spend some money on your suspension, you'll be good to go ehhh?
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Are folks using trailer brakes? I once pulled about 3k lbs behind my 6k+ lb truck w/o having the brakes hooked up and decided that I'd never do that again: no panic situation, just slowing down off a freeway offramp I could feel that trailer really pushing hard on the truck.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
Our trailer has electric brakes which are hooked up to brake controller. We have been running up and down all the hills out this way and until recently, the adjustment was so low that they weren't really doing anything. I turned them up so there is a small amount of braking from the trailer.

The big brakes on the car are so ridiculous that I could run without trailer brakes and still stop on a dime.

Our trailer weighs in at just over 2000 lbs. and the Beetle has a GVW of just under 4000 lbs.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
OK, good to hear you're running with trailer brakes. But, while your car can stop on a dime the trailer still wants to keep going (w/o brakes); and if you're not perfectly straight the trailer is going to want to go a bit off track and that force will tend to push more to one side of your car and push its rear in that direction.

Best measure is GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight). Trucks are rated this way. It's the weight of the towing vehicle and everything in it plus the weight of anything that is towed.

Your Bug has over-sized brakes, which does go a long way toward making it better at towing (because, well, towing tends to have a lot of stopping).
 
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PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
We have done several trips on the roads up here that tend to be twisty and hilly. The car has behaved very well and the trailer hasn’t felt like it wants to race the car to the stop light. I was testing the brake lever on the contoller on our last trip and noticed that I had the brakes set too low to do anything. I turned them up and finally had some brakes. I didn’t really notice any difference when descending or slowing.

I think there are requirements for brakes on trailers based on axle weight so trailer builders are installing them on new trailers.

We wouldn’t have gone with the route that we did unless we focused on stopping and we usually go overboard when it comes to safety.

It’s always fun to see other drivers with their mouths hanging open when we drive by!

We are heading to Mount Baker in August and Olympia in September so we will be traveling on the interstate highways which should prove to be interesting. I usually keep the speed around 60 when the trailer is on the back. I have just added my Z rated tires on the trailer so it should be even better and safer.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
You'll be driving past my place! If you're not pressed for time maybe you can drop by? But, I wouldn't want my wife to see your setup lest she gets some ideas!:eek:

BTW - Your setup is probably a lot better than most out there. I'd only have something that's diesel power doing work!:D
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
You'll be driving past my place! If you're not pressed for time maybe you can drop by? But, I wouldn't want my wife to see your setup lest she gets some ideas!:eek:

BTW - Your setup is probably a lot better than most out there. I'd only have something that's diesel power doing work!:D
Sounds like a plan, I will contact you as we get closer to the date and see what we can work out.
 

NoSmoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2001
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2K2 Golf
[QUOTE

When pulling our 2000 lbs plus trailer through the hills in BC, we have to slow down on the long hills and pull it up in third gear but I am talking about some very steep long hills, 10% grades and 5 kms long.
[/QUOTE]

Hey PB NB, I'm curious how you get away with pulling a 2,000 lb trailer with a Beetle in BC. I'm guessing here the Beetle is not rated for that weight (my 02 Golf is rated at 1,000 lbs only, with or w/o brakes) and do the BC provincial cops or RCMP not now have check-stops in mountainous areas to monitor that sort of thing? I know they used to and if you were found pulling "overweight" you might have to unhitch and leave the trailer there.

I'm not trying to get on your case but if there is a legit way around it, I'd like to know as I would like to pull greater than 1K lbs w/o having to worry about check-stops (or possible denial of insurance claims).
 
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PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
Hi NoSmoke, we played with this for a while and spoke to ICBC (provincial insurance) agents to see what we were up against.

It would seem that there is no rating for towing with the Beetle! The manual says "Not available at time of printing". We looked everywhere and contacted VW locally to see if we could get a tow rating. There was nothing concrete.

We did some math and looked at GVW's of the car and trailer. The trailer comes in just over 50% of the cars weight with an Axle weight of 1,620 lbs. and GVW of 2,200 lbs. (We aren't there yet).

We then looked at the practicality of the TDI as a tow vehicle. This part made sense. We have a car that has ample power and ample brakes to stop. Then we also wanted to make sure that the trailer had brakes too to take the guess work out of the picture.

Since there was no tow values available and we looked at the UK to see that the Golf TDI was tow vehicle of the year a few years back. That helped us decide that this would work well. Maybe the UK Golf's are better!

VW appears to be afraid to publish anything. However, your 2008 Toyota Corolla has a 1,500 lbs rating! Oh ya, so does your 2010 Honda Civic.

I wouldn't try to do this if I hadn't changed the brakes, upped the power and had a custom hitch made along with a rock solid suspension. The car in its stock form would have been a non starter. As it sits right now, we can pull this trailer anywhere and hardly feel it on the back of the Beetle.

The trailer hitch industry has also helped reduce the tow values by limiting the hitches available to North America. Have a look at the Bosal and Westfalia import hitches. We just get those little 1 1/4" receiver units that screw into the spare tire well.

I am not too sure about getting pulled over for this as we certainly have had the opportunity to get pulled over in our past trips. In the last 4 trips we have come across a lot of cops and nothing.

I will discuss this with our insurance agent to see if we can add a tow value to our policy. Just to close that possible loop. Thanks for bringing this back to the forefront.

I think this setup would attract some attention:



We used to pull an 1200 lbs tent trailer with our VR6 GTI and the big difference was no trailer brakes. We used one of those little screw on hitches which I always felt uneasy about. The car handled the load very well.
 
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UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Your Beetle is just awesome! I've been looking for a reason to really tweak a TDI:D (wife has mentioned towing a trailer so, maybe?)

For what it's worth, the wife's Golf dyno'd at 258" ft-lbs of torque. On a per liter basis that's more torque than a new Dodge Cummins truck (with 6.7L). Your Beetle is putting out more torque -TOTAL- than my old 3/4 ton Ford IDI! (6k lb pig)!
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
258! Wow, what did you do to crank that up? She must be smiling when she puts her foot into that.

Bring on the trailer!
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
She rarely hammers on it. But there's been a couple of cases when she had to (logging trucks racing up on her), and was able to get space in a hurry. I'm familiar with it because I drive it to refuel it; and, I spent a lot of time exercising the turbo to get out a kink (took me well over a year but the thing is now smooth) and punches really hard. Ultragauge shows boost to hit upwards of 24 psi (w/o correction). My car seems to cap out around 22 psi. Both cars are identically configured. Running DLC520s and Malone Stage 2 tunes.

I wouldn't put my life on the accuracy of the torque numbers as it was a free dyno at a Bora Parts (now Cascade German) GTG: the folks running the dyno weren't used to diesels and I know they had some exaggerated readings early on, but the wife's car went on as one of the last cars of the day. HP was just shy of 120hp.

I can only imagine what a Stage 4 tune with supporting hardware is like! (I was trying to get a ride in kiwibru's Stage 5 Golf while at that GTG but it never happened.)
 

NoSmoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2001
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2K2 Golf
PB_NB, thanks for the interesting towing comments. A few years ago I wanted to pull a 1,500 lb trailer with my Gold and called the insurance co - they said don't do it so I dropped the matter. I'll bet it could do it however as I have pulled about 1,000 lbs up & down quite steep roads with no drama. I don't quite get why European Golfs are rated considerably higher - the ratings seem pretty arbitrary. I even called VW Canada but all they said it is what it is.

I'd be interested in hearing what your insurance company says...

BTW, that Beetle with its front wheels in the air would also probably be OK if it were RWD. ;)
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Location
Orillia
TDI
1999.5 jetta tdi
We pulled a tent trailer with our 2000 GTI VR6 all over the place. The 2000 VR6 was a powerful engine in its day but your ALH can make similar HP however the torque of the diesel is amazing. I think the numbers for the VR6 were: ~170hp/170tq. Our ALH was dyno'd at 160hp/313tq.

The ALH is simple enough and can make quite a bit of power with some bolt on upgrades and a tune.

I think the MK4 platform is great to make a tow vehicle. I did it with the Beetle :)

Stick with a standard gearbox and away you go. Also, keep in mind that pulling in 4th loaded, is better than 5th based on the design of the 5 speed gearbox. Cruising in 5th on flat roads should work fine.

When pulling our 2000 lbs plus trailer through the hills in BC, we have to slow down on the long hills and pull it up in third gear but I am talking about some very steep long hills, 10% grades and 5 kms long.

We have a DSG transmission in our 07 GTI and although it is a great piece of engineering, I am not too sure how it would like the added weight of a trailer.



Thanks for the reply. Sorry I never replied in the past . I didn't really know how to use this site and kind of gave up on it. For a while. But I've learnt how to use it now.

My Jetta now has a 3inch staight pipe exhaust , cleaned intake with complete EGR delete. Cleaned turbo, and a doman8 stage 1.5 tune. So moves my trailer much better. I'm looking at replacing the injectors with bigger ones and possibly upgrading the turbo so I can move on to a stage 2 or 3 tune.

I'm curious as to what you are running for suspension in your beetle?
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Location
Orillia
TDI
1999.5 jetta tdi
I had a MkVI that got rearended and totalled. I took the payout and bought an ALH. Very glad I did, the complications of the electrics on
the more recent vehicles are their achilles heal IMO. Mechanically they may well last as long as the old technology, but electrically they will not in my experience.

Do yourself a favor and upgrade your existing ride, though I hardly think complaining about not being able to cruise up a hill at 80 with
a trailer is valid. Wanna' do that?, get a pickup with a big motor, and
pay the price at the gas pump.

My $.02,
R*2

Well wasn't really a complaint but more so how do I do it faster with this car. And I was also mistaken about the weight of the trailer. Call me young and dumb at the time but I though 687 kilo was less then pounds. Hahahaha? so yah more like it was 1500 dry.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
Thanks for the reply. Sorry I never replied in the past . I didn't really know how to use this site and kind of gave up on it. For a while. But I've learnt how to use it now.
My Jetta now has a 3inch staight pipe exhaust , cleaned intake with complete EGR delete. Cleaned turbo, and a doman8 stage 1.5 tune. So moves my trailer much better. I'm looking at replacing the injectors with bigger ones and possibly upgrading the turbo so I can move on to a stage 2 or 3 tune.
I'm curious as to what you are running for suspension in your beetle?
We are running KW V2's coil overs but the rear shocks were changed to V3's as they have more control up and down. This did a nice job of minimizing the rebound caused by the trailer when going over bumps.

We also have Neuspeed front and rear sway bars and TT lower control arm bushings.

Then the 19" wheels with the Michelin AS 3+ tires make a nice improvement over the crappy tires that were on the rims.

Hope this helps.
 
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