Is it possible for a FAR superior fuel to do this?

So this weekend I took a trip down to So Cal (from Vegas) and on the way down, it drove normal. Temp (via PolarFIS) showed a max temp of approx 225*. The needle never moved, so I know it didn't go higher. Usually at 227* is where it creeps off of dead center. And my trip down fuel economy was approx 33 mpg because I was doing 80-90 mph.

Once I got down to Long Beach, I was sitting on about 1/8 of a tank. So before I came back home today I filled up at a Shell station that had Propel HPR for about $0.20 cheaper per gallon than regular D2. I have been reading good reviews on the Propel diesel so I figured I would give it a shot.

With the specs I saw, I was kind of eager to try it. Here's my impressions...

I am DAMN IMPRESSED. My temperature never, NEVER, got above 214* even doing 85 up a 6% grade. My return trip fuel economy was 38.8 maintaining the same 80-90 mph when I wasn't braking for CHP. The last impressive showing was that it took much less throttle pedal to accelerate or maintain speed than it did before. If I kept the throttle where I normally do (I know muscle memory is not a scientific measurement), I would find myself doing 90-95 mph.

Based what I saw experienced on the return trip vs the trip down, I want this fuel in Vegas. It would be the ONLY fuel I ever purchase.

Is this all in my head) Or can a superior fuel (75 Cetane) actually make the car perform better than standard diesel (45 Cetane)?

Well, every industry comment ever printed (particularly, in this case, the ones from VW) says that cetane above 50 makes no difference whatever. That would mean a cetane improvement additive would be useless.

If the fuel makes your engine run better and gets better mileage to boot, then by all means, do what you can to get it available. Sounds interesting. The only other question would be if there's anything interesting in the fuel that might affect the catalyst, or make the lubricity lower than you'd like. I'd bet a super-duper boutique fuel like this won't be wanting for lubricity either.

At $0.20 cheaper than the regular D2, what's not to like?

Cheers,

PH

So what could account for 20ish percent increase?

Higher energy content in the fuel? Burns more efficiently?

My money's on a tail wind.

KLXD said:

My money's on a tail wind.

Click to expand...

It has been windy here lately and the prevailing winds are west to east, but it is hard to tell how much of a difference a tank of fuel can make. More testing would be nice. Some TDI owners who live near a source of this fuel would be useful.

Have Fun!

Don

Actually, there was a few miles of tail wind, a few miles of head wind. But by and large, it was mostly stagnant.

It may be all in my head, but I honestly believe there were some significant gains.

As for the fuel properties, they claim a lubricity rating to exceed (better than) 460um compared to the D2 spec of 520um. A max ash content of 0.001% compared to D2's 0.01%.

Check this out... (Sorry for the ridiculously big pic at first)

Better lube qualities would only help in reducing loss in the pump. I'd say most of the energy in pumping the fuel goes to doing just that with not much loss to friction. So even if there were no friction I can't see that kind of gain.

Less ash would probably mean more good stuff but again, not enough to matter.

Lower CO and particulates means more is burning as opposed to going out the exhaust.

I hope you is right but even if mileage were a wash if the stuff is cheaper...

But is it really cheaper or is there a subsidy keeping the price down? One case is good for Diesel drivers the other is better for everyone.

KLXD said:

My money's on a tail wind.

Click to expand...

That was my first thought as well.

HPR and other biodiesel types (let's not split hairs) have lower btu values per gallon than petroleum diesel. Most people report a slight drop in mileage with it.

turbobrick240 said:

HPR and other biodiesel types (let's not split hairs) have lower btu values per gallon than petroleum diesel. Most people report a slight drop in mileage with it.

Click to expand...

I do have to split hairs on this one, though. It is far and away superior to biodiesel in most every regard. And at the chemical level, it's much more similar to conventional D2, just with a complete lack of aromatics, than it is transesterified oil.

It's a completely different process to make the stuff, and again it can undergo more conventional refining processes as well.

You are right on the BTUs, though. It does indeed have a bit less energy content than ULSD D2. I've noticed when I use the stuff that the low end torque response is a little worse, but high end is very good (thanks to the high cetane). And fuel economy either remains about the same or slightly worse than normal D2 in my experience, but again, this is with older TDIs. When you throw a DPF-equipped commonrail into the equation, it might be different...

It does produce significantly less soot I've noticed on my older cars with a couple mods. I also suspect this means on a DPF equipped vehicle, longer durations between regens.

Aside from slightly worse fuel economy on older TDIs in my experience (should be more than offset by the fact they try to price themselves cheaper than what D2 goes for in the immediate vacinity) the only other downside I've seen is on older injection pump TDIs. On old pumps that have never had the seals replaced, it is almost guaranteed to make the pump start leaking if it isn't already weeping slightly. I've had a rash of pump reseal jobs immediately after people tried HPR. Sometimes they stop leaking by switching to bio or even ULSD in some cases. The complete lack of aromatics makes the seal shrink/harden issue even worse than the initial switch to ULSD.

But, once you have new seals in the fuel system, there shouldn't be a problem. And if I had a DPF-equipped TDI, I definitely would like the idea of extending the time between regens. That and every pump I've taken apart that's been running on HPR looks pristinely clean on the inside. I've seen a number of conventional biodiesel pump internals that either had rust or this slimy varnish built up inside or just an odd discoloration of internal components.

Basically, if you have a diesel in good shape as far as its seals are concerned, it's an excellent choice of fuel to run. I like the stuff a lot.

Yeah, the DOE technically defines biodiesel as produced by transesterification (like FAME). The HPR does behave much more like petroleum diesel than FAME. It is a biofuel diesel though, so I consider it a type of biodiesel. I'd love to try the stuff. I hear it is very dry when not treated with sufficient lubricity additive (like ULSD), so I'd probably add some to it.

It would be interesting to see if there were fewer re-generations due to lower ash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLXD View Post
My money's on a tail wind.

belome said:

That was my first thought as well.

Click to expand...

We take a weekly road trip of @ 200 miles, a lot of it over our flat East Central Illinois land. My experience of this over the five years we've owned the Passat is as stated above. The headwind / tailwind effect, if combined (i.e. headwind going, tailwind coming back) can produce a difference of 4-5 mpg on the MFI on the two legs.
The variables involved can be serious, and it's sometimes difficult to isolate one in particular. Over the past month, the car has been struggling on trips to break 40 mpg, usually high 30's, 38-39 mpg. Suddenly, with this tank, it's popped up to 42-43 on the last trip. Little doubt that what's involved is one of two things: ambient temperatures in the high 40's, or perhaps the first dose of un-winterize D2.....but which one? Or was is a combination?

I'm with KLXD and Rico 567.
I own the ugliest car on the planet...Nissan Leaf. It is highly susceptible to wind (as is the Passat!)
Car averages 4.6miles/KwH.
Drove 45 miles, FW to Denton, 20-25mph tailwind. 6.6miles/KwH.

Our power company only sources electricity from wind power, and I initially thought my electrons might have gotten mixed in with superior electrons from a dirty (coal/petro) source.

(FixMyBug: You know I'm joking, right???)

tdiatlast said:

I'm with KLXD and Rico 567.
I own the ugliest car on the planet...Nissan Leaf. It is highly susceptible to wind (as is the Passat!)
Car averages 4.6miles/KwH.
Drove 45 miles, FW to Denton, 20-25mph tailwind. 6.6miles/KwH.

Our power company only sources electricity from wind power, and I initially thought my electrons might have gotten mixed in with superior electrons from a dirty (coal/petro) source.

(FixMyBug: You know I'm joking, right???)

Click to expand...

Ohh you're not joking...

The Nissan Leaf is the ugliest car. And you own the hell out of it. Ha ha ha.

Rico567 said:

The variables involved can be serious, and it's sometimes difficult to isolate one in particular.

Click to expand...

Yup, unless you are in a controlled environment MGP claims are hard to substantiate. A family member spent several years running a dyno room for one of the big three. Even there they found perplexing results now and again.

Your average driver making changes usually finds the results that they were expecting. The butt dyno just doesn't cut it.

I've had people tell me their car gets 5mpg better when they change their oil every 3k miles... backed up with 'data'. We all know that is nonsensical but the brain she works in mysterious ways.

I consistently got better mileage with B100 biodiesel in mixed city/highway driving. About the same difference reported by the OP, 10%-15% better than D2.

UFO said:

I consistently got better mileage with B100 biodiesel in mixed city/highway driving. About the same difference reported by the OP, 10%-15% better than D2.

Click to expand...

I took a hit of about the same when I stopped using B100 and started using D2. I got much better mileage with the B100...

tdiatlast said:

I'm with KLXD and Rico 567.
I own the ugliest car on the planet...Nissan Leaf. It is highly susceptible to wind (as is the Passat!)
Car averages 4.6miles/KwH.
Drove 45 miles, FW to Denton, 20-25mph tailwind. 6.6miles/KwH.

Our power company only sources electricity from wind power, and I initially thought my electrons might have gotten mixed in with superior electrons from a dirty (coal/petro) source.

(FixMyBug: You know I'm joking, right???)

Click to expand...

See what happens if you use a K&N Electron filter.

Tried it, I was slammed by Leaf gurus. Total scam, as it didn't filter out the dirty electrons at all, gummed up the regen braking ability...