Rod knock? Loud noise!? Help

Hi guys I'm new on here, I just got a 2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI and I'm really excited about it. I have been doing as much as I can on my own, reading the FAQs and TDI 101, but can't seem to figure out what's going on with my car. This is my first diesel, so this whole experience is new for me. When I first got the car it would not idle at all. It would only crank and send puffs of blackish smoke out. After a few attempts I had a lot of soot on the ground behind the tail pipe.

What I have done since I own it:
-fresh oil/filter
-new fuel filter
-kleen fuel additive (cetane boost,injector cleaner, water eliminator)
-added 5 gallons of fresh diesel from Shell
- charged the battery

Eventually I got the car to start and idle, but it was not a smooth idle by any means. It sounds like a lifter, a camshaft problem, with a loud knocking. I'm sure I could pay someone a fortune to figure this out but, I don't have a fortune to give out. I'm looking for something to read that might help me, or a thread outlining a procedure to figure this out. At this point anything helps, thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMbAQesPqA&feature=youtu.be

Check the camshaft, if it looks ok, drop the pan. That squeaking, in past experiences, is usually rod bearings.

cam inspection and compression test, squeaking could be something as simple as the serpentine belt or loose/broken exhaust components... inspect your old oil filter and oil for large silver flakes ... post pictures of your findings

jimbote said:

cam inspection and compression test, squeaking could be something as simple as the serpentine belt or loose/broken exhaust components... inspect your old oil filter and oil for large silver flakes ... post pictures of your findings

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No silver flakes were in the old oil filter. I unfortunately already tossed it. Is there a write up or how to for how to do a compression test on these motors, or do you just take out the glow plugs and test from there?

turbovan+tdi said:

Check the camshaft, if it looks ok, drop the pan. That squeaking, in past experiences, is usually rod bearings.

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I really hope you're wrong, can you explain to me as how to check the camshaft?

First thing, check to see if the noise is louder at the crank. If the noise is from there, you may have a galled cylinder/ rod bearing. If it is coming from the head you have a really bad cam. Probably a blown lifter and from the sounds of things, a damaged valve stem. That would require removal of the head.

Look for sharp edges on the cam lobes. From the sound, I hope you have a bad cam and it will be painfully obvious. But it might be both cam and piston.

Turn the crank over by using a 19mm 12 pt socket on the end of a couple of 12" extensions and a breaker bar. Remove the side shield and turn the wheel all the way to the right. That will give you good access. Look at the tops of the lobes: 1, 3, 6, and 8. Those are the exhaust lobes. They are the ones that are more easily damaged.

You should hope it is the head. Otherwise, you have a block to rebuild.

I have done a lot of those engines. If I can be of any additional assistance, feel free to call.

Thanks frank!

I hope you got it really cheap!

Sounds like a bad cam to me. Pull the valve cover and look and don't run it any more.

belome said:

I hope you got it really cheap!

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I did, hopefully it doesn't cost a fortune to fix though. I have to take my wife to class and then I will take the valve cover off and take pictures and post them. Thanks for the help guys.

Franko6 said:

First thing, check to see if the noise is louder at the crank. If the noise is from there, you may have a galled cylinder/ rod bearing. If it is coming from the head you have a really bad cam. Probably a blown lifter and from the sounds of things, a damaged valve stem. That would require removal of the head.

Look for sharp edges on the cam lobes. From the sound, I hope you have a bad cam and it will be painfully obvious. But it might be both cam and piston.

Turn the crank over by using a 19mm 12 pt socket on the end of a couple of 12" extensions and a breaker bar. Remove the side shield and turn the wheel all the way to the right. That will give you good access. Look at the tops of the lobes: 1, 3, 6, and 8. Those are the exhaust lobes. They are the ones that are more easily damaged.

You should hope it is the head. Otherwise, you have a block to rebuild.

I have done a lot of those engines. If I can be of any additional assistance, feel free to call.

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Here are the best pictures I got of the lobes. The lifters all seemed to move and didn't appear to have any dents or unusual wear on them. I'm starting to think it's a rod or piston. I will be pulling the oil pan and girdle tonight to check if the rod is loose. Let me know what you guys think of these photos. Am I right? Does the cam look OK?

Did you clean the oil out of the top of the motor or was it like that when you opened the valve cover ??

Sttb said:

Did you clean the oil out of the top of the motor or was it like that when you opened the valve cover ??

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Good catch, that head is bone dry and spotless,

That's what they are supposed to look like. All mine are completely spotless under the valve cover.

turbocharged798 said:

That's what they are supposed to look like. All mine are completely spotless under the valve cover.

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There's supposed to be oil in the bolt heads and all over the head, its dry.

I bet by now you could just drain the oil an you'll know what it is. Sounds like a bottom end to me. I agree seems like there should be more oil residue on top. Could put a oil press gauge on an see what it's doing.

doesnt the injector roller surface in this image look like the typical dented lifter galling on the injector lobe



I also agree that unless he wiped everything down very well it seems awful dry in these photos.

The images have been enhanced to make it easier to see the camfer on each lobe. It looks dry because I brightened the photos in Photoshop and zoomed in as much as possible.

UPDATE!: Took the oil pan off tonight and gave all the rod bearing caps a shake to find cylinder #2 rod bearing and cap have about 2cm of movement, not good! What do you guys think, push in a new bearing if it looks like just the bearing is gone, machine the crank, or...?
All info is appreciated.

If that bearing is gone there will be others on they're way out. Yer gonna need a total rebuild is my guess, that's if the crank isn't completely trashed. First thing you'd need to do is find out why it happened. Bad Maintainence? Plugged oil pickup? Hopefully you got the car cheap enough you could find a good engine out of a wrecked car.

If the cap is black or blue, its done. Remove the cap, if the bearing has spun or damaged the rod, its done. If the crank has any damage, its done. You might be lucky and its just a bearing.

Kyleig said:

If that bearing is gone there will be others on they're way out. Yer gonna need a total rebuild is my guess, that's if the crank isn't completely trashed. First thing you'd need to do is find out why it happened. Bad Maintainence? Plugged oil pickup? Hopefully you got the car cheap enough you could find a good engine out of a wrecked car.

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The oil pick up was the first thing I checked and it was totally clear, clean and empty, nothing blocking the screen and no sludge build up. I was told by the owner that oil used was Shell Rotella. He also mentioned the car died as he was going up the highway at a constant incline. The oil looks as if it was starting to breakdown. If you look at the pictures of the cam lobes if you look at the head mounting surface where the valvecover connects you'll see very small oil balls/sludge. I'm not diesel expert but I think it may have to do with using the incorrect oil.

turbovan+tdi said:

If the cap is black or blue, its done. Remove the cap, if the bearing has spun or damaged the rod, its done. If the crank has any damage, its done. You might be lucky and its just a bearing.

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Can you elaborate on what black or blue means and how to identify damage to the crank? Should the journal measure to a specific size with digital calipers?

I'm pretty certain that he is referring to signs of overheating, due to a dragging/failing bearing.

- Tim

tadawson said:

I'm pretty certain that he is referring to signs of overheating, due to a dragging/failing bearing.

- Tim

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Yes ^. If it got hot, as if it was run dry of oil, it will have blued. Pull the bearing cap and see what it looks like.

I wouldn't say it was the wrong oil, a diesel will run with any oil in it, just not as long of time as if it had the right oil. If there was some sludge in it if was probably lack of Maintainence. How's the bottom of the pan look?

maybe the oil was diluted with diesel?

At this point I would consider looking for another engine...might be cheaper and a lot less hassle.

Kyleig said:

Yes ^. If it got hot, as if it was run dry of oil, it will have blued. Pull the bearing cap and see what it looks like.
I wouldn't say it was the wrong oil, a diesel will run with any oil in it, just not as long of time as if it had the right oil. If there was some sludge in it if was probably lack of Maintainence. How's the bottom of the pan look?

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Looks like any other pan I've see on a car, nothing unusual. Is there something particular I should be looking out for in the pan?

maxmoo said:

maybe the oil was diluted with diesel?

At this point I would consider looking for another engine...might be cheaper and a lot less hassle.

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Do you still have a clean sample of the oil that came out?
Might want to consider an "oil analysis"

That's really strange. If you had a bad bearing there would be shards on the bottom. When you wiggled the rod was that side to side or up and down?

Kyleig said:

That's really strange. If you had a bad bearing there would be shards on the bottom. When you wiggled the rod was that side to side or up and down?

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Ok, so I take that back. I must have just glanced at the oil pan as i was laying underneath the car because after taking a better look there are tons of little metal shards directly underneath where the rod bearing would sit. I also took off the bearing cap and MICd the journal. The journal has some scoring and you can see it got hot. The measurements were 47.5 outer portion, center portion 46.40, and 47.5 outer portion. I'm thinking of cleaning the journal and trying and new bearing and seeing how my luck goes.

I'm sure alot of you won't recommend it but being that I don't have time to do a rebuild and am busy with work and school this may be my best option for the time being.

If that's the case you will need to figure out why it did it in the first place. It had to have been starved of oil. Oil pump could be bad, plugged gallys. If you put a new bearing back on it will most likely do it again. Other bearings will be in bad shape as well.