Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I finally got the MOOG rear springs installed today and the rear wheel well arch height is 27-3/8". So there is only 3/16" difference from back to front
 

RedTDIowner

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Crestwood KY
TDI
2014 Audi A6 3.0 TDI
I just installed the beef on a budget (Koni STR.T + Moog Lift Springs Kit). I have only gone 50 miles since I installed them so it will probably level out some but here is a pic.


 

k_pt

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Location
pt
TDI
VW MKIV TDI
Hi

do you guys find anything unsafe on doing this? If so, why? I know that powerflex has a -10mm mounts to lower the car that uses the same method as this.







 

CarlosF

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Location
Whitehorse, YT, Canada
TDI
2010 GSW TDI DSG Blue Graphite
I'd like to see a lifted only alignment spec sheet and issues thread.
I second that. I'm about to have the Tiguan spring/towing spring set installed on my 2010 wagon (which the young and inexperienced service advisor at my dealership of choice strongly advised against). Post installation, I'd like to be confident that an alignment performed by a competent mechanic will be all that's required.
 

bobbiemartin

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Location
Jacksonville, FL
TDI
2010 Tiguan TDI 4Motion, Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD
I'm about to have the Tiguan spring/towing spring set installed on my 2010 wagon (which the young and inexperienced service advisor at my dealership of choice strongly advised against). Post installation, I'd like to be confident that an alignment performed by a competent mechanic will be all that's required.
I put the Suplex Sportwagen rear towing springs on my Tiguan and it raised the rear about 2 inches. The place I always get my alignments had no issues except for the caster was slightly out (I'm guessing due to the increased rake). The wagon suspension is very similar to the Tiguan, so I can't see any other issues you would have. You will certainly have increased ride height when you are done. I replaced the struts, shocks and several other suspension bushings at the same time. I would suggest you check everything for wear, but other than that you should be fine.
 

k_pt

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Location
pt
TDI
VW MKIV TDI
Hi
do you guys find anything unsafe on doing this? If so, why? I know that powerflex has a -10mm mounts to lower the car that uses the same method as this.



Just to give you guys a feedback. Done a couple thousand miles with this mod, all kinds of cornering, nothing unsafe about it. Running them with koni yellow sport and eibach pro kit.

What you are seeing is some spring rubber mounts from the rear suspension, golf 4 too.

Got that lift you can see on the pics, 1/2 in maybe? Probably got a little bit of confort due to the adding of rubber on the setup.

The reason why the lift on the front only? Eibach pro kit gave the car a high rake and the front was sitting too low.
 

Bobo4255

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Manual
I've gone full front and rear mounting, bushing, and stops hardware, with the Golf Lift Springs of IDparts, Suplex parts 1J0411105CD 1J0511115CP, paired up with the Koni Special Active front and rears, pair of 10mm spacers for up front.

Out of the gate it's sitting at 27 3/4 or 5/8" front, 28" rears, which is an honest 2" bump in the front, maybe a little less than that in the rear end. I know that will likely settle a bit, but right now it's amazing to finally drive my car with a real intact suspension system.
 

RedTDIowner

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Crestwood KY
TDI
2014 Audi A6 3.0 TDI
I wanted to give you all an update on how my car is doing since I did the beef on a budget package. A couple months ago I was driving on the interstate with my cruise set at 75 MPH when I drove into hard rain. It wasn’t a torrential down pour but it was a pretty consistent rain, bordering on heavy rain. I turned on the windshield wipers and was able to see clearly so I didn’t let up. I just kept the cruise set at 75. I was driving on a flat & straight stretch of the interstate in the left lane when all of the sudden my rear end started floating to the right.

I immediately tapped my brake to turn off the cruise control but it was too late, all the sudden I was doing 75 MPH freakin sideways! I then over corrected to where I was now sideways facing the other direction. I then over corrected again to where I did two complete 360’s and ended up in the middle of the median facing the opposite direction I was going. It’s a miracle that I didn’t touch a thing. Not a single scratch! I then pulled back onto the interstate and drove home.

You can only imagine what was going through my mind while all of this was going on. Yes the cruise control was most likely the reason. However, I drove this car off the show room floor over 17 years and 326,000 miles ago. I know this car well. In all those miles the rear end has never ever hydroplaned. Yes there have been numerous times over the years where my front end hydroplaned, but never the rear.

Well when I came out to my car the next day I noticed one of my rear tires was flat and I then found a screw in the tire. I would have to assume this happened when I went off the road. Knowing the tread on my rear tires was close to the legal tread limit, I took it to get patched but knew they might not be able to. Well to my surprise it had enough legal tread for them to patch it. The next week I bought a new set of tires and it has not hydroplaned in the rear since.

Now the only thing I had changed on the car was this new suspension package replacing the shocks, struts and springs which has raised the rear end a little which could have then sent a little more of the weight of the car to the nose of it in the front possibly making the rear a little lighter. Now I ran that idea by both Peter of ID Parts and my mechanic who also happens to be an engineer. Neither one of them think these new springs (which have raised my rear an inch higher than the front) could have caused this but I just wanted to be honest and up front with you all about my experience.

Yes the combination of using the cruise control and my rear tires barely having legal tread was most likely the culprit. However, the weird thing is that an interstate has a crown between the left and right lane for water run off so it doesn’t pond on the road. When my rear floated, it floated up and over the crown instead of down and away from it. In other words, you would think the rear end would have floated to the left and not the right since I was in the left lane.

There is no doubt that my front tires did not lose traction in all of this. This all happened from the rear. Now I did have 140 pounds of paperwork in tubs in the trunk and the back seat did have about 70 pounds in it. I don’t remember how full the fuel tank was but that also could have added another 100 pounds or so to the weight in the rear if it was close to being full.

Here is an updated pic of my car with this beef on a budget package installed. From the ground to the top of the wheel well is 27 inches in the front and 28 inches in the rear. Now when I add all the tubs of paperwork to the trunk it lowers my rear to where its just over 27 1/2 inches at the top of the rear wheel well. I love how these new struts, shocks and springs feel. My car has never handled better. I will just make a point to not let my tires get close to the legal tread limit and never use the cruise while its raining ever again.

Here is a list of everything I installed with the beef on a budget package.

Koni STR.T+ Lift Springs Kit (A4)
- Front Strut Mounts:
- Shock Bump Stops:
- Strut Bump Stops:
- Rear Shock Mounts:
- Installation Bolt Kit
Rear Shock Boot / Dust Covers Pair
Seat Cupra Rear Axle Bushing Pair
Hardware: Bolt & Nut
Front Strut Bearing
Front Strut Boot/Covers
Sway bar bushings
Ball joints
 
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Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
So here I am almost a year later, and still no longer dragging on the concrete parking blocks in parking lots, or driveway dragging is a real plus. I just measured the front arch again and even with new tires I am at 26-1/16" in the front where I previously had 26-3/4". I did not have the new rear springs and the dampers in the back last time I measured so that may have skewed the results. Realizing the front and rear fenders are unequal height from the factory, the only real measure of height is the gap at the bottom of the doors as far as I can see. My front height from the ground is 11-1/2" and the rear is 11-15/16". When I did the install originally, I did not want the "baja bug" look for my Jetta like some have done with theirs. Knowing any extra ground clearance on a Mk4 is a good thing, I have decided to add the 10mm spacers to the top of the struts. My buddy works at a full service repair shop, so he has professional spring compressors that will make very short work of adding the spacers to the struts. The driver's side strut goes in and out without effort, but the passenger side requires a long pry bar (which we now have) to R-n-R the strut without removing the drive shaft. Updates to follow...
 
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Andrew Dale

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Location
Chilliwack BC
TDI
MK4 TDI Golf
running koni oranges on the beef springs. 1.5" lift over factory ride height, i added metalnerd 1.5" spacers to the front to level out the forward rake.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Post #485 mentions the caster being out after the lift. Okay, but I would think there would be too much positive camber. I say that because when my rear springs died, I had enough negative camber to destroy my tires on the inside edge.
 
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export!

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Location
Canada
TDI
'02 Golf
Whelp, here goes nothing. Not entirely BOAB but this was the most current thread I could find. Wish me luck!
 

export!

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Location
Canada
TDI
'02 Golf
Got it all done. Took about 6 hours but I could probably do it all again in about 3-1/2. The only thing I overlooked was the bottom rubber pieces for the rear springs. The top pieces were still there and I reused them but the bottom ones were long gone - probably scattered around with the pieces of broken spring from both sides. My suspension was so shot it looks like i gained about 2" all around.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
There's no rubber on the bottom of the rear springs on a MKIV. Just a stainless steel disc that sits in the spring perch.
 

dhangejr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Location
PNW is my home
TDI
mk4 Jetta
Post #485 mentions the caster being out after the lift. Okay, but I would think there would be too much positive camber. I say that because when my rear springs died, I had enough negative camber to destroy my tires on the inside edge.

Your rear tires died?
I have front Inner tires dead , new after alignment.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
export!, glad to hear you finished the install. I will say now that my suspension being fresh, I get a slight bit of "clunking" every time I go over a crack or bump in the highway. I will say for the difference in the handling overall and the difference in ground clearance is certainly worth it. At 290,000 miles I am sure there are bushings that are tired and need replacing, but right now that issue is not on the priority list for allotment of funds.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Is the noise in the rear? I had to play around clocking my springs to get them quiet
 

ItAintRodKnock

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Location
Fraggle Rock, CO
TDI
01GolfTDi
You can use jeep springs to get to 3"
Jk fronts up front
Xj fronts in the rear

I remember seeing most people using suplex fronts still needed to stack two 10mm spacers to get level with the rear towing springs.
So are you running these on yours?
cant find any other information about these...
trying to confirm before i purchase

What i did come up with is:
Jeep JK- 2007–2018 Jeep Wrangler 2 door
Jeep XJ- 1983-2001 Jeep Cherokee
Part numbers:
JK Front(for VW Fronts)- 52126314AC - $150
XJ Front(for VW Rear) - 52001122 - $96
Summit Auto for both, and free shipping looks to be the cheapest I think
 

Art van Law

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Location
PVD, RI
TDI
2013 JSW
ZCU rear spring

I've had a rear spring stamped ZCU break. Can anyone identify this spring as towing rated, or just the normally installed rear spring on a 2013 JSW? (The dealership claims ZCU is towing rated...but I'm skeptical and would like to present data to the contrary b/c I'd like to have towing rated springs installed, not OE tomorrow.)
Thanks!
 

tom2turbo

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Location
Portland
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI Wagon
So are you running these on yours?
cant find any other information about these...
trying to confirm before i purchase

What i did come up with is:
Jeep JK- 2007–2018 Jeep Wrangler 2 door
Jeep XJ- 1983-2001 Jeep Cherokee
Part numbers:
JK Front(for VW Fronts)- 52126314AC - $150
XJ Front(for VW Rear) - 52001122 - $96
Summit Auto for both, and free shipping looks to be the cheapest I think

Do you have any report on these, particularly the rear 52001122?
 

Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
To the OP and anyone altering their ride height to any appreciable degree.
The rear axle is supposed to bolted to its attachment points such that at a level ride height NO preload is imposed on the axle bushings.
IF you are raising (or lowering) the ride height it may be worth considering loosening the axle bolts and then retorquing them with the car sitting level, .5 tank of fuel. VW directs one to do this when replacing the bushings as well, so makes sense to check/change as needed when raising lowering car. IMHO in the examples shown above if this is not done the wear rate of the axle bushings will be accelerated.
HI,

Would raising the FRONT and inch or 2 require this?

Thanks

Andrew
 

mech644

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Blue Hill, Maine
TDI
'00 Golf, '14 Touareg
If your raising the front end ride height it will affect the rear bushings, can’t avoid basic geometry. However its not likely to make the rear bushings fail nearly as quick as if the rear was raised.
BUT if your lifting the front end you should back the bolt off on the front LCA bushing and retighten when the car is at normal ride height.
 

Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
If your raising the front end ride height it will affect the rear bushings, can’t avoid basic geometry. However its not likely to make the rear bushings fail nearly as quick as if the rear was raised.
BUT if your lifting the front end you should back the bolt off on the front LCA bushing and retighten when the car is at normal ride height.
Thanks for the reply ... I'll be sure to do it ... I want to make things last as long as possible.
 

Chuck78

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Location
Columbus, Ohio USA
TDI
Suzuki Samurai LWB / 1.9mTDI project, '02 1.9TDI Jetta Wagon Stage 1 tuned, '82 Rabbit Pickup 1.6TD
FYI - Lesjöfors most current automotive coil spring catalog that I could find, go to the latter portions for technical specifications that include wire diameter, coil outside diameter, and free length. No spring rates listed, and no coil count listed, so you cannot calculate the spring rates, but this is a good bit of helpful information.


I was trying to find some longer springs than the VR6 Jetta wagon automatic transmission fronts. 40 950 93 is the front VR6 spring that ID parts sells to accompany the 42 951 33 rear European wagon towing springs as a set of 4 lift/towing springs. These are similar but 24mm longer than the 42 950 52 "heavy duty" springs.

40 950 93 = 13mm wire diam. / 142mm o.d. / 325mm free length / 158lbs-in / 6 coils.

Stock Mk4 TDI Jetta Wagon are 40 950 26 from what I gather from reading others posts and Rock Auto listings. Somehow this particular listing is missing from the Jetta section of the catalog, it skips from Mk3 to Mk5 Jetta...

Stock front (Mk4 TDI Jetta Wagon):
40 950 26 = 12.5mm wire / 139mm o.d. / 366mm free length / 119lbs-in.

Stock rear (Mk4 TDI Jetta Wagon):
42 950 43 = 11.25mm wire diameter
109mm o.d.
358mm free length
style: I I

Everyone adds one or two 10mm strut spacers to the front VR6 coils when they buy that set of front and rear lift / towing springs, in order to raise the front appropriately for the new rear towing spring height.
I was trying to find a spring that would not need the spacers. Also I was uncertain if adding spacers would increase the spring preload which would make them stiffer initially, which would increase the ride height. Or if adding the front strut spacers would just move the strut away from the upper mount further? Having downtravel or sag in the suspension is critical for traction when encountering potholes or dips in the road...
 
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Chuck78

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Location
Columbus, Ohio USA
TDI
Suzuki Samurai LWB / 1.9mTDI project, '02 1.9TDI Jetta Wagon Stage 1 tuned, '82 Rabbit Pickup 1.6TD
To get a longer front spring so that I only need one 10mm spacer per side or none at all, I dug up these from the 2019 Lesjöfors catalog:
40 950 31:
13.00mm wire
137mm o.d.
367mm free length
style: C I

40 950 33:
13.00mm wire
141mm o.d.
340mm free length
style: C I

Since stock is 12.5 mm wire diameter, I searched only 12.75mm and 13.0mm diameter in order to get stiffer spring rates. 13.0mm is the same wire diameter as the VR6 front springs that they sell with the towing springs from ID Parts.

The 340mm version there shows up in the Rock Auto catalog for $35/each! That's 15mm longer than the 325mm VR6 front springs that ID Parts pairs with the European rear wagon towing springs.



*for anyone looking for a little bit of lift in their sedan, I will have a set of the standard wagon springs available for next to nothing here in a few weeks... Those plus the $150 Evolution lift kit spacers would you fairly decent for a sedan.
 
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