$5 FIX mk5 EGR cooler diverter leak (hissing)

supak111

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Jun 9, 2013
Location
midwest
TDI
2006 TDi Jetta
Hey guys I just had a typical hissing boost/vacuum leak from the EGR cooler diverter valve. Finally figured out an easy $5 fix that works 100% and its easier to do then actually replacing the whole $350 EGR cooler system and you can do it all without removing anything but one bolt.

I tried thermal woven gasket material from ovens, (didn't work) see here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4284261#post4284261

I also tried putting just coupe of perfect sized washers OD 17mm, ID 6mm, but still had hissing (less tho).

$5 FIX THAT DID WORK:
Quiksteel from Walmart $4.27+tax (rated for 500F) and I made a small metal part that goes under one of the bolts so that it holds all the Quiksteel pushed inside. Took about 30 minutes to get the metal part just the right size but anyone can make one. All you need is a drill, hacksaw and a metal file.
You could use something that is rated for much more then 500F, but keep in mind that you need to use something that is like a putty so that you can easily work it into the hole, if the glue/epoxy you end up using is too runny you won't be able to get it into the hole (please post below if you find any putty like epoxy that is rested higher then quiksteel)...

IMPORTANT NOTES:
Mix the 2 part guiksteel really good but fast, it hardens really really fast. I CAN'T stress this enough. On my first try it hardened on me and I only filled half the hole so I had to get all the stuff out which was super super hard once this stuff hardens. SO MIX FAST but well (60 sec max) then fill the hole asap. Also it helps to have the metal part made already as you can use it to push the quiksteel up into the hole... Doesn't look great but works great, I'll update everyone if this doesn't last long as I'm not sure 500F rating is good enough.

PS I didn't use the spring that usually holds the original gasket and shaft.

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mishkaya

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Iowa
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'06 Jetta 5MT, '10 JSW MT, '14 JSW 6MT
Interesting fix; please keep us posted as to how this holds up.
 

supak111

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Jun 9, 2013
Location
midwest
TDI
2006 TDi Jetta
Sure will, so far about 100 miles mix of highway and city and its perfect still. No hissing at all and the EGR cooler diverter valve functions back and forth fine. I was worried that 500f rating of quiksteel may not be enough but I don't think it gets that hot there actually since the cooler keep that area pretty cool I'm guessing probably below 250F. I worked on it after driving the car and the area didn't feel very hot at all.
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supak111

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midwest
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2006 TDi Jetta
Yes quiksteel is stuffed in and all around the shaft. What you do is when the stuff starts to harder, twist the shaft a few times back and forth so the shaft doesn't seize. Since quiksteel is a putty like epoxy it doesn't really glue to the shaft so the shaft is still able to twist like it should when the EGR needs to operate.
PS so far I'm impressed with the preformace of this fix..
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aja8888

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Yes quiksteel is stuffed in and all around the shaft. What you do is when the stuff starts to harder, twist the shaft a few times back and forth so the shaft doesn't seize. Since quiksteel is a putty like epoxy it doesn't really glue to the shaft so the shaft is still able to twist like it should when the EGR needs to operate.

PS so far I'm impressed with the preformace of this fix.
Thanks for the update.;)
 

supak111

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Jun 9, 2013
Location
midwest
TDI
2006 TDi Jetta
Privately I was asked this:
"Hey I had some questions about the EGR fix you posted on TDIClub. What's the purpose of the metal plate? Won't the Quiksteel bond to the housing? I've only used JB Weld previously, so does the Quiksteel have different properties? I would think that after it cures the shaft would seize. I was planning on cutting off the shaft and filling it up with JB Weld before I saw your post, but if I can keep the function of the EGR intact I'd prefer that."


Metal plate is there to keep the shaft centered. The reason OEM gasket fails is because the shaft moves so many times and each time it does it puts pressure on the gasket which is what destroys/erodes the gasket. If you didn't put that metal centering plate there, after a while the shaft would destroy/erode quiksteel too. So the metal is there to keep the shaft centered and all the pressure of shaft moving is NOT on the gasket, but on the metal plate which should not wear out. Its important, but even if you do this fix without the metal part I think it would still last, just not as long I'm guessing.

Quiksteel bonds to the housing of the diverter valve yes which is what you want, you just don't want it to bond to the shaft. You want the shaft to still spin within the quiksteel. So as the quiksteel starts to cure/harden rotate the shaft a few times by hand to break the connection between the quiksteel and the shaft. This wasn't hard to do, shaft was smooth so the quiksteel didn't bond to it very well. So no the shaft is NOT seized, it spins just fine, EGR still works. I did all this with the system on the car which is even more impressive :)

Quiksteel VS JB Weld.
Quiksteel is rated for 500F and cost $4.27. JB Weld rated at 450F costs like $9.
Both are putty like epoxy which is what you want because its the only type of epoxy you'll be able to work up into the hole around the shaft.

UPDATE: after about 800 miles, mix of highway and city EGR cooler is still perfect no hissing what so ever :)
 
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supak111

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midwest
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2006 TDi Jetta
Yes good luck, sure beats spending $350 on the new EGR cooler.

And its not even the money, I don't see how anyone even takes the old one out, there is like no room back behind the engine.

Only problem I had was getting the spring that holds the shaft out (which I didn't even use in the end). But after getting a small screwdriver in just the right sport it popped out.
 

supak111

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midwest
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2006 TDi Jetta
Over 3000 miles on it now, still works perfect. No hissing, no check engine light, and the EGR system works like it should...
 

James & Son

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Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta
Supak111, I am not wanting to take away anything from your success here. I just thought it should be mentioned that if you remove the spring it might be possible to end up pushing putty past where the original seal was and get it into the valve area. I suppose when you rotate the valve to free up the shaft that could free it up if any got that far.

Nord did something similar and I believe how he was able to hold the shaft centered and block the entry into valve flap area was to wade up some tin foil and shove it down around shaft and then put the puddy in on top as you did. not sure if he took the spring out.

I see your metal plate holding the shaft centered while it is still setting up and you want to rotate the shaft.

I wonder if you could leave the bottom part of the spring in place for centering and support. Just cut the upper part that is in the way out and then you would not need any tin foil either. It might bond pretty good since the spring has a lot of cut outs the putty could extrude around. Actually you and Nord should compare notes. Do you think it might be possible to leave part of the spring in there and then not bother with your centering plate? Just a thought.
 

supak111

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midwest
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2006 TDi Jetta
You could leave the spring in, half or whole thing. It can't hurt, it would only help actually. I mainly didn't because it was hard to get the epoxy into the whole around the shaft with the spring there. You won't get much in there, I personally stuffed as much as I could before this stuff hardens which is fast maybe like 2 mins later... There isn't much room down there and I wasn't about to spend 5 hours taking the whole EGR cooler off.

**If I had the whole assembly off, I would do epoxy in before the spring, then put the spring back in, and then more epoxy on top... But if something works KISS.**

Problem is the stock spring sucks at keeping the shaft centered, thats why the stock gasket falls apart in the first place.

PS. If anyone is making a metal shaft centering part, cut it just like I did. Have the shaft enter the metal bracket at an angle. I did that for a reason which should make sense if you play around with the way the valve puts torque onto the shaft and the shaft's arm.
 

James & Son

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Problem is the stock spring sucks at keeping the shaft centered, thats why the stock gasket falls apart in the first place.
Your right about not being much room. I forgot that the retainer only holds it in the up/down direction and it would be sloppy in the left/right direction. Yes and if your epoxy was hardening that fast you didn't have much time.

Here are some pictures to help with your thread here, originally posted by mainjet.





Edit: one can see the original bushing/seal in behind the retaining clip on this new part that wears out. hope this helps with questions to supak111
 
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supak111

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midwest
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2006 TDi Jetta
Thanks for the pics bud, I couldn't find these when I was doing this. It will help others understand whats going on.
 

subdvr99

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Apr 22, 2006
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Mystic, CT
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2006 BRM (Sold)
Any longer-term update on this fix? The sooty underside of my engine is begging for a fix, one way or another... also, any dimensions on the metal piece, or is it easier to fit up in place? I have to take the car somewhere to get it up in the air, so if I can fab it ahead of time, i would.
Thanks!
 

supak111

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Location
midwest
TDI
2006 TDi Jetta
Been thousands of miles so far and still works perfect, no hissing at all.

No dimensions of the metal sorry, I just kinda fabed it up, tried it, then filed it down some more until I got it to fit nice and tight.
 

bondtimbond

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Jul 30, 2006
Location
Houston Texas
TDI
06 Jetta package 2 - now sold
How does the metal plate fit over the lever on the shaft?

I assume it is required to clean out the cavity somehow to clear out the carbon so that the epoxy can adhere? What is a good way to do that?

What is the trick to disconnecting the ball and socket fitting from the actuator from the lever?

I'm in the midst of this now, and will try to take some photos of the repair process.
 
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bobthefarmer

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Indianapolis
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2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
What is the trick to disconnecting the ball and socket fitting from the actuator from the lever?

I'm in the midst of this now, and will try to take some photos of the repair process.
The Rod has a small wire spring capturing the Ball. The wire is removed from around the shaft of the Ball and then extracted out of a hole in the Rod. Take a very close examination of the situation before you extract it (phone Pic?).

If you are using the methods in this Thread, I see no reason to pull that retainer.

The alternative permanent fix is found in a thread called Hissing Leaking EGR Cooler.
 

cumminsfromthecold

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HumCo
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'84 Toyota 1Z 4WD x-cab
"That is an entirely different setup. Doesn't even have an EGR cooler changeover flap shaft to leak. ;)"

Yes, yes it is.
 

bondtimbond

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Houston Texas
TDI
06 Jetta package 2 - now sold
NOTE: the technique outlined in this post used quick steel epoxy and that repair turned out not to last more than a year. I suggest you refer to my post later in this thread where I use JB Weld and I completely deactivate the vacuum motor. That technique appears to be lasting much longer. This post however includes lots of useful photos and information so it's still worth reading.

OK, so I performed my repair a couple of weeks ago on my 06 TDI with DSG, basically using the high temp epoxy technique outlined by Supak111, and have a few comments and photos and the general procedure I used. I have posted this in the thread started by Supak111 since what I have done is based on the same approach. Overall it went well, and when I drove the car it was HISS FREE for the first time in probably 10 months or so! How nice! It has continued to be hiss free since the repair, but we'll see how long this repair lasts. Now that I have done this however, I believe I can go in should the hiss return and re-perform the repair with some lessons learned much faster and do a better job. This is being offered here just as information. I don't know how long this will last and I offer no guarantees obviously. I am sure this procedure can be improved. Here is what I know:

A). The biggest problem with this technique as Supak111 mentioned also is that the QuikSteel putty hardens too fast. We need to find a similar high temp putty that hardens slower and this will be a much easier and less stressful job. You have at most 3 minutes from end of mixing to when the putty suddenly hardens - and I do mean suddenly! It goes from workable to unworkable in a matter of seconds.

B). My whole task was done on jack stands under only the front and this works fine. Get it up nice and high, a bit higher than when the car is on ramps. You will need to be able to rotate the front wheels. You don't need to remove either wheel.

C). I applied the epoxy in two layers, and I don't know if this is the best way or not. Supak111 did it slightly differently, as he didn't reinstall the spring clip at all and fabricated a new bracket to cover the whole opening, but I didn't know really how that was done and didn't want to fab something up. I took the approach of using the original clip since it provides some support to the shaft and holds it centered at least in one direction. I figured I would find out how well the epoxy would hold up on its own. The approach I took required no fabrication. You may choose to take Supak111's approach and leave out the clip and fab a replacement that covers the whole thing. I assume it has to have a slot in it to allow it to slide in place since the arm on the shaft prevents installation otherwise. Supak111 feel free to comment...

D). The original bushing only occupied the bottom half of the total space, with the spring clip holding it in place apparently. My approach was to fill the lower half, insert the clip just before the epoxy set, then after the first layer had set completely add a second layer to fill the space to the top of the cavity. I figured this would provide more support for the shaft, etc.



Here was my basic procedure. Please comment and let me know how it goes and I will update this based on others input.

1). Jack up the front end of car and place on jack stands, remove underbelly cover.

2). Disconnect passenger side axle where it connects to tranny - six bolts. This isn't hard to do so don't skip this step, it gives you necessary visual and hand access at least on my 06 with DSG. You need to rotate the wheels to give you access to all six bolts and they come out easy with the proper triple square adapter. Move the axle forward to give you access. Place a trouble light up on top of the aluminum subframe to give you nice light.

3). Remove the "space blanket" that covers the EGR cooler actuator. If you like, you might clean up the area with a suitable cleaner and rinse things off otherwise the soot that is probably all over will make a mess as you continue. Pull off the vacuum hose from the actuator, remove the two Allen bolts that hold on the vacuum actuator.


Here is a photo of the subject valve prior to performing any work on it:




4). Disconnect the ball and socket end of the actuator - doing so allows you to get the actuator completely out of the way which is a big help, and permits you to clean and test the actuator. Ball socket removal is done by pulling up on the spring that is clipped over the actuator shaft (see photo below), and rotating the clip clear of the shaft then pulling the tiny wire attached to it out of the socket in the actuator direction. This tiny clip/wire is inserted into a tiny hole near the bottom of the socket and when inserted keeps the ball from pulling out of the socket. Pretty neat design, but the clip is tiny and easy to lose. Be careful. Once you unclip the spring end from the shaft, you then pull towards the actuator and it just pulls out allowing the removal of the actuator.


Detail view of the ball and socket highlighting the spring clip that must be pulled up and rotated:




5). Remove the spring clip that holds in the old bushing around the valve shaft. This clip, pictured below, has a small tab on it that you must depress with a small screwdriver in order for it to come out. This is tricky. You should use a small inspection mirror to help visualize where this tab is located. You have to push inward towards the valve once you have the screwdriver on the right spot.


Detail view of the removed clip that holds the old bushing in place and supports the actuator arm, showing the small TAB that must be depressed to remove:




View of the bushing cavity with the clip removed prior to digging out the old bushing:




6). Next, using a small screwdriver dig out the old bushing as best you can. You have to work your way around the perimeter of the circular cavity to make sure you get it all out, and plan on using a small inspection mirror to be sure. I used a shop vac to help keep the sooty debris from falling in my face.


Here is a view of the cavity after removal of the old bushing showing the vacuum cleaner hose placed beneath to catch the debris:




7). Clean the cavity. I used some throttle body spray cleaner with the extension nozzle in place to blow out and clean the bushing cavity and it seemed to work well.


Here is photo of the cleaned cavity ready for epoxy:




8). Familiarize yourself with how the epoxy behaves. It sets really fast. If you know of a slower setting version that is also high temp and a putty consistency that will stay in place when you are working upside down, you might try it. I mixed up a small sample of epoxy and pretended to mold and apply it just to see what it felt like as it set, etc and I suggest you do the same.


Here is a photo of the epoxy package:




9). Time to mix up and apply the first layer of the epoxy. As mentioned above, I applied epoxy in two layers with the factory clip reinstalled in-between. You don't need to mix up much of the epoxy for each layer, only maybe a half inch of the roll each time and then still have some unused material. I found that there isn't much of a gap down in the hole where you insert the putty to have to worry about some of it going too far into the slot and interfering with the butterfly valve. I just used a small bent flathead nail as a "tamper" to press the putty into the slot filling it slightly more than required to point where the spring clip installs. You have to do this step VERY quickly, tamping the putty into the cavity and then QUICKLY inserting the spring clip. If you aren't fast at it, you won't be able to get the clip in! I was just able to get the clip in before the putty hardened. I unfortunately didn't get a photo of the cavity half filled.

Very important: after the putty has hardened about 5 mins or so you can twist the valve lever and break the shaft free from the putty and twist it back and forth a few times. You must do this or the shaft will be sealed to the putty and won't rotate.

After the putty had hardened, I then used a small screwdriver to remove any loose putty to prepare for the second layer.

10). After allowing the first layer fully harden, which is listed as about an hour, I applied the second layer into the cavity. I feel that they second layer will add more support to the shaft since it supports the shaft closer to the lever arm where loads from the actuator are applied. Putty is applied the same way as the first, using a flat blade screwdriver to help smooth out the top to fully fill the cavity. My hope is that the second layer will bond to the spring clip and to the walls of the cavity. Don't forget to twist the shaft to free it from the hardening putty after the putty has mostly hardened, which I found to be about 5 minutes.

11). Reinstall the actuator, the space blanket, and the axle shaft, torquing the axle shaft bolts to their appropriate torques. Note that there is some confusion as to what those torques are supposed to be, and it apparently varies based on what transmission you have and the size of the fasteners.

12). Reinstall underbelly cover and any other removed parts.


Here is a photo of the completely repair after the second layer has been added and hardened, and actuator reinstalled:




So as I mentioned above, I don't know yet how long this will last but I am hopeful. If it does fail I will post that info here and will update my procedure to reflect what I learn. I have some thoughts about how to do it stronger that I will probably pursue if this repair doesn't last.

I'll be glad to update the procedure listing based on inputs from others, and my own experience with how long this repair approach lasts.

Tim
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The repair we tried, which is far more extensive than yours and involved the expertise of a large aircraft company local to our shop has proven to last no longer than the original did. Looked nice, and looked promising, but in the end just didn't work out like we wanted it to.

My next idea was to just remove the flap, shaft and weld the whole mess up, so that the EGR flow is free to go through or around the cooler on its own.
 

supak111

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Jun 9, 2013
Location
midwest
TDI
2006 TDi Jetta
Hey guys I fixed the original pictures I posted (page 1), I didn't know they were down.

★ ★ ★
UPDATE: Now I think 6,000 miles still NO HISS at all :). I just did my turbo rebuild so I had a good chance to inspect the epoxy and all of it is still there, none burned off, none was gone. Still holding super strong, I was afraid that the heat would make the epoxy soft but the stuff is hard as a rock. Don't think its going anywhere.
★ ★ ★
.
PS bondtimbond awesome write up + thanks for better pics. I know just about everyone is gonna need this sometime in the future.
.
.
 
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MPG MASTERS 1

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Florida
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2005.5-2006 Jetta
Really Great Cheap Fix, However

Hey guys I fixed the original pictures I posted (page 1), I didn't know they were down.

★ ★ ★
UPDATE: Now I think 6,000 miles still NO HISS at all :). I just did my turbo rebuild so I had a good chance to inspect the epoxy and all of it is still there, none burned off, none was gone. Still holding super strong, I was afraid that the heat would make the epoxy soft but the stuff is hard as a rock. Don't think its going anywhere.
★ ★ ★
.
PS bondtimbond awesome write up + thanks for better pics. I know just about everyone is gonna need this sometime in the future.
.
.
I tried the same fix and man are you right about the short time the epoxy sets up. Well under 2 minutes once mixed together. I filled the entire housing hole and then some and was unable to put the cer-clip back in but it did not seem to matter. The epoxy was 1/2" thick and made a Super bushing bearing surface that holds the shaft centered and supported, BUT The fix needs a seal of some sort added to the fix. Some sort of half cut pushed together or open wrapped type high temp seal for the shaft to stop ALL exhaust gasses from bubbling out when soaped up with a leak solution. Even a little exhaust leak will cause the ECU to not function correctly and request a different vane opening in the turbo as seen on the VAG. When you clean out the defective high temp seal from the old housing, either before you add the epoxy or half way through the packing, you need to somehow wrap a high temp sealant type material of some sort around the shaft that seals the shaft from leaking even a little bit. I am sure they make something to work as a seal but without a seal you will still have a small leak of exhaust. I love this fix but after doing it and seeing the small leak I decided to spent the $310 and replace the entire cooler and 4 hours of labor at $89/hr., ouch!!. In hind sight, I should have put a seal in that opening and then the fix would be better then a new cooler with the crappy defective seal. Now I have my old cooler to play with but that epoxy works great but do please remember, when you need it together, your working time is so so. so short, have everything ready and use all three or four hands and work real fast fast fast. lol.
 

bobthefarmer

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Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
Having done the bushing Modification, I think this will work just as well in half the time! Great Work, Team Members!
 

MPG MASTERS 1

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Florida
TDI
2005.5-2006 Jetta
Why have the EGR Cooler flap in the system?

Having done the bushing Modification, I think this will work just as well in half the time! Great Work, Team Members!
=If the EGR valve controls the exhaust going back into the intake manifol, what is the purpose of the flap that is prone to leaks? Seem like you could just remove that flap and weld that hole shut. Again, with the epoxy fix, their will still be some exhaust leaking by the shaft and epoxy without a true seal on the shaft of some sort.
I think it is good to have an EGR system working but seems redundent with the cooler flap before the EGR valve that opens and closes shutting off the exhaust.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
It doesn't regulate EGR flow, it regulates if the EGR goes through the cooler or bypasses it. The EGR valve itself is what regulates the actual flow.
 
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