Getting the GTI itch..anyone else?

FlyTDI Guy · Jan 29, 2015

There's a person over on 'Tex' who, at 2k miles, already stepped up to an APR Stage 1 and taken his manual clutch out. He's trying to get the dealer to replace it under warranty. A couple thoughts... nothing's indestructible and the guy's an idiot. 3k rpm launches w/a modded engine and he's surprised he took something out. Additionally, we all pay the price for folks like himself trying to pull a fast one w/the dealer. No wonder VW approaches we customers w/the presumption of quilt. Due to the actions of a few, everyone pays the price.

DubFamily · Jan 29, 2015

LaTuFu said:
My old 8v Mk1 GTI says you better take that back!

ATR · Jan 31, 2015

IndigoBlueWagon said:
ATR, I've also heard of syncro failures on the 02Q transmissions. In fact it's one thing (clutch upgrade options the other) that may cause me to shy away from power upgrades on my common rail TDI. I don't know if the gassers use the same syncro design as the TDIs. I would hope it's something stronger.

Took me a bit to find this thread... Read from post #133 on:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=367577&page=9

I'm having second thoughts on going big power wise (gtb2260) and just going with a more conservative tune either keeping the stock turbo or upgrade to a cr170 turbo. Though I still really would like to get a limited slip differential regardless of how I mod since I deal with winter weather conditions.

The thing is gassers don't have the torque of diesels. Their transmissions are also geared with shorter ratios so even big torque numbers don't affect them the same as our longer ratios.

Cooper · Jan 31, 2015

TDIinMA said:
... One of my favorite was an '87 Golf GTI ...

I had an tornado red '87 GTI 16v for 10 years and 175,000 miles until the transmission blew. Great car. TT exhaust. Neighbors must have hated it.

Sold it to a VW tech for his son that was getting his license. He kept it to 255,000 miles. Sold it to someone, and they told me they saw it on the road for years afterwards.

Bought a 1997 B4 Passat GLX since the dealer was clearing them out at 0% financing to make room for the B5 cars. Then had a 2001 GTI GLX. A Mk. IV car. Very bland. Sold it after a couple of years and bought a CPO A4 Avant to get back into a wagon.

frugality · Jan 31, 2015

ATR said:
The thing is gassers don't have the torque of diesels. Their transmissions are also geared with shorter ratios so even big torque numbers don't affect them the same as our longer ratios.

Watchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

A GTI has 256 ft-lbs of torque, and our CR TDIs have 236 ft-lbs. That appears to be the same gasser 2.0T that you can get in other vehicles like the Audi Q5, because a quick look at the specs show similar figures. The Cadillac ATS with a 2.0T is listed at 295 ft-lbs and 272hp. The new Volvo V60 with its new 2.0T has 258 ft-lbs and 240hp.

Driving a diesel is getting to be less enticing. Even if fuel prices were on par, with the riskier fuel system and exhaust system components on our TDIs, I'm getting tempted to go back to lower-tech, simpler gasoline systems, and pay a bit more for fuel. I do like the 550-600-mile range of a diesel, though. Fewer gas station stops in sub-freezing temps.

ATR · Jan 31, 2015

frugality said:
Watchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?
A GTI has 256 ft-lbs of torque, and our CR TDIs have 236 ft-lbs. That appears to be the same gasser 2.0T that you can get in other vehicles like the Audi Q5, because a quick look at the specs show similar figures. The Cadillac ATS with a 2.0T is listed at 295 ft-lbs and 272hp. The new Volvo V60 with its new 2.0T has 258 ft-lbs and 240hp.
Driving a diesel is getting to be less enticing. Even if fuel prices were on par, with the riskier fuel system and exhaust system components on our TDIs, I'm getting tempted to go back to lower-tech, simpler gasoline systems, and pay a bit more for fuel. I do like the 550-600-mile range of a diesel, though. Fewer gas station stops in sub-freezing temps.

You're reading off what vw puts on their window stickers not what folks put down to the wheels.

Stock gti vw a K04 gti:

Thread on the car's build here:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29884&styleid=3

Here's a thread to the TDI dyno graphs:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=323946

Stock for stock it's not too far away from one another.

Start to upgrade performance of the cr engine and things change quickly...

Do a malone stage 2 tune and DPF delete and you're putting down numbers in torque that can best a k04 equipped gti without even touching the stock turbo.

Upgrade the turbo to the likes of a GTB2260VK and you'll have over 400 ft lbs of torque.

It comes down to what you want out of the car.
All put horsepower & go juice go for the gti

The original mpg go getter with spunk (torque) go for the TDI.

truman · Jan 31, 2015

Quote:
Driving a diesel is getting to be less enticing. Even if fuel prices were on par, with the riskier fuel system and exhaust system components on our TDIs, I'm getting tempted to go back to lower-tech, simpler gasoline systems, and pay a bit more for fuel. I do like the 550-600-mile range of a diesel, though. Fewer gas station stops in sub-freezing temps.

I'm feeling the same way. Much of the attraction of diesels centered around their simplicity. That is long since gone. My right brain wants another diesel. My left brain is making persuasive arguments against that choice.

ATR · Jan 31, 2015

truman said:
I'm feeling the same way. Much of the attraction of diesels centered around their simplicity. That is long since gone. My right brain wants another diesel. My left brain is making persuasive arguments against that choice.

I still love to tell folks that I'm averaging 42mpg... I've been the diesel advocate of this thread and I know it.

That said I think until we see how the mkvii tdi does reliability wise I can't say I would go that route next car. I really did like my drive with a 6mt mkvi gti and I'd even consider one if my commute wasn't as long as it is currently (surprise long trips that work tosses my way also helps cement my choice for the tdi for now).

Anonymous911 · Jan 31, 2015

I am itching to get back into the GTI. My commute has changed because my girlfriend and I broke up as mutual agreement, so now the commute has changed to 10 miles a day from 80 miles a day.

I am this close to order '15 Silver GTI S PP 4DR 6MT sometime next week, after test driving the GTI today made me miss my old GTI so much and realized how much fun it is to drive the GTI.

frugality · Jan 31, 2015

ATR said:
You're reading off what vw puts on their window stickers not what folks put down to the wheels.

And you're going off topic and talking about modded cars, not window stickers either.

The point is, there are plenty of stock gassers that have equal or greater torque than our stock CR TDI's.

ATR · Jan 31, 2015

frugality said:
And you're going off topic and talking about modded cars, not window stickers either.

The point is, there are plenty of stock gassers that have equal or greater torque than our stock CR TDI's.

Sorry for going off topic, I was simply trying to go into detail of how many folks who get TDIs and GTIs do indeed mod their cars.

Also I wasn't disagreeing with you, I said that "Stock for stock it's not too far away from one another". I never said you were wrong. Granted I may have come across that way in my last post. Sorry 'bout that

soulflyer · Jan 31, 2015

I got the S3 itch...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=432808

IndigoBlueWagon · Feb 1, 2015

If you want HP and torque, gasser or diesel, VW isn't your best option. The Ford Focus makes more power than the GTI, an STI makes more HP than any GTI or the R. A Fiesta ST makes almost as much power as a GTI in a lighter vehicle. In the track day world VW products (including Audi) are known as fat and underpowered. And they understeer.

I love VWs, and am considering swapping my '12 Golf TDI for a Golf R when the MT version appears. It's a beautiful car. But it's not gong to be the fastest car on the block. A base new Mustang will probably walk away from it.

DubFamily · Feb 2, 2015

IndigoBlueWagon said:
If you want HP and torque, gasser or diesel, VW isn't your best option. The Ford Focus makes more power than the GTI, an STI makes more HP than any GTI or the R. A Fiesta ST makes almost as much power as a GTI in a lighter vehicle. In the track day world VW products (including Audi) are known as fat and underpowered. And they understeer.

I love VWs, and am considering swapping my '12 Golf TDI for a Golf R when the MT version appears. It's a beautiful car. But it's not gong to be the fastest car on the block. A base new Mustang will probably walk away from it.

I assume you mean the Focus ST? Because a base focus doesn't remotely come close to a GTI.

As for power; Yep, a Focus ST makes more power than a GTI does; but it is slower in anything but 10/10 track driving because of the power delivery, it also understeers worse than a GTI and has more torque steer.

STI is definitely faster than a GTI, no question. But most people are unable to drive a rally car as a daily. Even those who start out with one often dump it pretty quickly because it is so harsh. The GTI ride, interior and fit/finish is miles above an STI at a lower price. An R is cheaper than an STI as well (not by much, but it is) and blows the STI away in every single comparison except speed/handling.

You are totally correct, if all you want is speed there are better vehicles out there, the new Turbo Mustang is a perfect example. But for the overall package, the GTI is still the best thing on the market by far.

IndigoBlueWagon · Feb 2, 2015

No disagreement here. But when people talk about HP only VW doesn't look so good. I wouldn't be caught in an STI: the wing alone is enough to make me feel silly.

Truth is that most people don't use the power their cars have. I drove my son's bone stock Golf TDI yesterday and it would easily go much faster than conditions and the low would allow. And my mildly modified wagon, although not fast by absolute measures, is plenty fast enough for road use. That's in part why I haven't made any mods to my '12. For my purposes 140 HP is plenty.

msantram · Feb 2, 2015

Cooper said:
I had an tornado red '87 GTI 16v for 10 years and 175,000 miles until the transmission blew. Great car. TT exhaust. Neighbors must have hated it.

Sold it to a VW tech for his son that was getting his license. He kept it to 255,000 miles. Sold it to someone, and they told me they saw it on the road for years afterwards.

Bought a 1997 B4 Passat GLX since the dealer was clearing them out at 0% financing to make room for the B5 cars. Then had a 2001 GTI GLX. A Mk. IV car. Very bland. Sold it after a couple of years and bought a CPO A4 Avant to get back into a wagon.

Funny @Cooper, my brother had the exact same tornado red '87 GTI. He rolled it once, spun out and damaged it another time, and had a few other benders. All cause he was driving it like a rally car. It was a lot of fun, and thankfully safe enough to keep him in one piece. Great car...

LaTuFu · Feb 2, 2015

IndigoBlueWagon said:
No disagreement here. But when people talk about HP only VW doesn't look so good. I wouldn't be caught in an STI: the wing alone is enough to make me feel silly.

Truth is that most people don't use the power their cars have. I drove my son's bone stock Golf TDI yesterday and it would easily go much faster than conditions and the low would allow. And my mildly modified wagon, although not fast by absolute measures, is plenty fast enough for road use. That's in part why I haven't made any mods to my '12. For my purposes 140 HP is plenty.

This sums up pretty succinctly why I am content to remain in a TDI (assuming they don't continue to get more and more complicated and expensive to maintain).

Don't get me wrong, the GTI has been my favorite VW since the first time I laid eyes on a MK1 Rabbit GTI back in the 80s. It was tough to stomach the MK3 years, but its been more hit than miss for me.

But I would want to drive it the way it wants to be driven if I owned the MK7. I'm much more content with my TDI and trying to maximize MPG on my daily commute. It keeps me out of trouble.

Mike_Van · Mar 25, 2015

My frustration with FWD this winter in my Golf, even using studded snows, was such that I gave up and replaced it with a certified 2012 Audi A5 2.0T 6MT.

I considered a used Golf R, but after some research, Torsen appealed more to me than Haldex as an AWD system. The engine is very similar to my wife's 2.0T B6 Passat, but with 50 extra lb/ft & a stick, it feels like a very different animal.

Owning the 2010 MK6 (39k miles) for under two years, after my 1999.5 MK4 (159k mi, 6 years) left me with these impressions:

- 39 MPG avg. (65%+ city) is stellar, about what I got from the MK4, in spite of the extra power & weight of the MK6.
- I only drive ~6k miles a year, work 2 miles from home, so neither diesel made a ton of sense for my application.
- winter traction in the MK6 was poorer than that of the MK4 (studded snows on both)
- 236 lb/ft of torque is WAY more fun than 149 lb/ft.
- I loved not being the guy (MK4) whose stop-light acceleration left any smoke.
- US diesel isn't the same as EU diesel & the possibility of DPF & HPFP issues made me not want to own my out-of-warranty MK6 past 40k mi.
- modern conveniences of the MK6 over the MK4 were great (stock audio system with SD card, AUX input & Bluetooth for phone & music streaming, heated seats)
- bumpy roads making me hear the door-seal squeaks on my 2-door MK6 was annoying.

Of course, I'll only get half the avg. MPG in my new ride, but I can accept the compromise I'm making for traction.

If we retire in Europe, maybe I'll be back to a manual, AWD TDI ;-)
Until then, thanks for all your help, kind forum members...

UberVW_TDI · Mar 27, 2015

Love the STi, but the styling is just plain ugly. I'd go Golf R as its just a better total package.
Or how about the upcoming Ford Focus RS?? ~350hp.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1503_2015_subaru_wrx_sti_vs_2015_volkswagen_golf_r/

SwimmerDave · Mar 27, 2015

Golf R is about as refined as it gets for AWD ~300hp in that price range. The looks don't scream "boy racer" and the power delivery, transmission, and suspension is smooth enough for a daily driver. For some, it may be a little _too_ refined, i.e not engaging/challenging enough.

Getting the GTI itch..anyone else?

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