Rear main seal leaking or something else

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
Hi Group,

I'm replacing the transmission on my brm (diff pin failed and blew holes through the inside and outside casing of transmission), and figured its a good time to replace the dmf while I'm there.

This is what I found behind the flywheel:



Quite a bit of oil below, but also above the rear main seal.

I read the rms is unlikely to go bad on this engine, and its often more trouble to change than to leave it.

There's a bit of a diagonal path where oil may of come in from the top.

Maybe have to check the tandom pump up there. Or the valve cover. Its also possible the transmission fluid splashed around in there when the diff exploded.

Thoughts on how to confirm if the seal is bad?
 
Last edited:

spatuality

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 1.9L Jetta BRM MKV 5MT
I left it alone. Cleaned the oil from all around the area. New flywheel and clutch in place. We'll see if anything leaks later...
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Looking at the picture above, what do you think is the source of the black grease/oil? My block looks the same, and I am considering replacing the RMS on my 360K motor. I would rather not replace the RMS if I don't have to.
But, my new clutch I put in the car last year started to slip in the high gears staring over the summer and has gradually gotten worse. I pulled the transmission, and was concerned that maybe it was not the RMS. Looking at the back side of the motor, there is some black oil on the EGR cooler, and on the
inlet side of the turbo. Except there is too much grease/oil to just be
oil seeping out of the turbo.

Here is the picture from my RMS.

 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Looking at the picture above, what do you think is the source of the black grease/oil? My block looks the same, and I am considering replacing the RMS on my 360K motor. I would rather not replace the RMS if I don't have to.
But, my new clutch I put in the car last year started to slip in the high gears staring over the summer and has gradually gotten worse. I pulled the transmission, and was concerned that maybe it was not the RMS. Looking at the back side of the motor, there is some black oil on the EGR cooler, and on the
inlet side of the turbo. Except there is too much grease/oil to just be
oil seeping out of the turbo.

Here is the picture from my RMS.


It may be that the tandem pump seal is more of a culprit than the RMS.
If the valve cover or the cam bearing cap corners were not properly sealed, they too can contribute to the mess.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Thanks for those pointers. I will look at the Tandem pump seal and the valve cover. Tandem pump was not removed/touched when I did the Cam replacement years ago (used the technique where you turned the cam to
release it from the pump(, and the valve cover has probably only been removed once since then.

Looking around and below the Tandem pump, there is some oil on some of the fuel hoses below the pump. Just seems to be a large amount of oil behind the flywheel that could just be from the pump/valve cover.

But, seeing the clean RMS seal, does not lead me to think it is leaking.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
The spinning clutch/flywheel can produce air currents as well as just driving the car and that can put hot, runny oil into all kinds of place where it did not originate.


There is leakage and there is seepage. If it is not dripping on the lower sound cover it could have take a very many miles to produce that residue.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Now you got me changing my mind back to the RMS seal (in addition to the tandem pump gasket).

There just seems to be so much oil on the block and oil pan to be just from
a tandem pump gasket leak.

I have the trans off, and the flywheel removed, with 360K on the engine, I am going to replace the RMS and the tandem pump gasket.
I had replaced the clutch 12 months ago, and ignored the oil on the block (it was covered with oil, but not this bad).

Thanks
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Remember that when you shut the engine down the residual oil is going to migrate down.
I am trying to picture how oil would get behind the spacer plate into that triangular recess on the block above the crank.

But, 360K is a lot of miles and if you have plans on putting many more on it...maybe not such a bad idea.

Make sure you have a good grasp on what it takes to mount the new RMS and crank position sensor wheel. Some guys use the specific tool (me) and some don't. Plan on removing the oil pan.
 

mr.loops

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Location
Kelowna
TDI
2002 jetta, 2003 Bora 1.8T
What’s the issue with doing the RMS? If the trans is off and you have that many miles on the engine, seems like good insurance to me




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tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
I have the instructions and watched the video on replacing the RMS.

Ordered the part and tool rental, so I should be working on this over the weekend.

Not sure why I was hesitant on replacing the RMS. I have done worse jobs on the car, cam, egr cooler, several timing belts, 6 sp transmission upgrade.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Now I know why I was hesitant on replacing the RMS. After installing the RMS with the rental tool, and while reinstalling the oil pan, I cracked the plastic frame of the RMS. When I got the oil pan in place, one of the first bolts I inserted was the RMS oil pan bolt, then I got the other bolts in, then tightened the bolts in a
zig-zag pattern, and then noticed the 2 RMS pan bolts were not snug to the pan.

When I tightened them the plastic frame cracked. So, I get to order another RMS, and remove and clean (for the second time) the oil pan gasket surface.

 

mr.loops

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Nov 24, 2010
Location
Kelowna
TDI
2002 jetta, 2003 Bora 1.8T
That sucks. Remember it could have always be worse.


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tactdi

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Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
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2005.5 Jetta
Not the first time I have the pleasure to reinstall parts that get broken. I will still be ahead of the game vs having a shop pull the trans, and R&R the gasket and clutch.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Not the first time I have the pleasure to reinstall parts that get broken. I will still be ahead of the game vs having a shop pull the trans, and R&R the gasket and clutch.

Do you know if it was due to cross-threading the bolts?
If not, and you have a couple of thermostat M7 bolts, try using those. There have been times when It seems that I've run into your situation of not being able to seat the RMS pan bolts because they seemed too long. The thermostat (or water pump bolts) are a little shorter but long enough to do the job. Try a dry fit first to make sure. You should be able to spin them in there all the way finger tight.
 

tactdi

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Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Thanks for the idea.

The RMS is the Victor Reinz part which is the recommend replacement, when installing the pan, I must have tweaked/pulled on the bottom of the RMS when getting the pan in place with one or both RMS bolts in (I don't really remember).
Not sure I have spare thermostat bolts, I know I have some spare water pump bolts, will check if they are shorter and fit.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
RMS new seal is in and done, and the oil pan is installed.

This time I did find shorter bolts from a water pump to use to mount the oil pan to the RMS. I also, put those 2 bolts in last, used the side oil pan bolts to hold the pan on, while I installed the remaining bolts, snugged them up then installed the last two shorter bolts, then tighten up all the bolts in a criss-cross patten.
 

mr.loops

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Location
Kelowna
TDI
2002 jetta, 2003 Bora 1.8T
RMS new seal is in and done, and the oil pan is installed.



This time I did find shorter bolts from a water pump to use to mount the oil pan to the RMS. I also, put those 2 bolts in last, used the side oil pan bolts to hold the pan on, while I installed the remaining bolts, snugged them up then installed the last two shorter bolts, then tighten up all the bolts in a criss-cross patten.


Glad to hear you got it sorted [emoji106]


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