I could use some advice on this BRM.

Hey fellas. I tried resuming an old thread I had made about this '06 that I maintain and repair for family but there were no more replies even after a bump: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=419308

So, I'll give a new thread a shot as I spent some time diagnosing this car today. It was running perfectly then parked for 4-5 day's. Upon restarting the car all of a sudden will hardly run, and often won't run. I was first told it won't go over a crawl. When I got to it it wouldn't hardly run and typically just shuts right back off after it fires a few dozen revolutions. This much I can tell you:

• It was not misfueled.
• The lift pump provides ample volume.
• The cam timing is dead on.
• There are 2 codes that are listen on the scan I posted on the other thread. (B1S1 o2 and MAF codes.)
• While running the car smokes out of the exhaust and smoke puffs out of the air cleaner when it shuts off.
• The common hardness chafe areas don't show any harness damage.

The first start for diagnosis today the car ran great for about 3 seconds. The injector deviations were all less than 30. Then the thing went to misfiring and abruptly shutting off. After that I can't keep the car running under any condition. Every time the engine shuts down you have to cycle the key which means I have to reboot the module in VCDS and load the 3 measuring blocks I was looking at. The car will usually run like garbage for one second then shuts down. I'm not able to collect any data to help point me in the right direction as the refresh rate on VCDS doesn't allow me to use hardly any of the data I'm looking for.

The car went from running great to all of a sudden acting like this so I first thought about a harness issue. It very may well have a harness issue but I sure don't see any damage on the harness so far.

I know there are many guys on here with more experience than me on the BRM and I could sure use a few ideas tossed around on where to go next. The battery is dead now so I'm charging over night.

Going out on a limb here but smoke coming out of the intake to me seems like it could be a mechanical problem, That being said have you inspected the cam and the lifters under the valve cover. I know that a holed lifter does not mean the engine will not run but.....


How many miles are on the car?

Along with the cam inspection, is there a bup bup sound coming from the intake when the car does run?

If the car is not throwing any codes other that the ones you listed it would seem to me that it is something mechanical.

The "idiot" lights only light when there is an electrical type problem, ergo a sensor that is bad or a sensor that is detecting something out of range.

The smoke coming from the intake tells me you have a huge mechanical issue causing the problem.

Pull the valve cover and check the cam. Not very hard or take very long to do.

I should have included this bit of info in the first post. I inspected the cam when the car as first bought with around 80k miles. It had lots the chamfer on some of the lobes and I warned the owner about having to do the cam down the road at some point. The car has 120k miles or so now.

Cam failures are usually pretty gradual. This car as running perfectly when it parked, then 4 days later it will hardly run. There is no noise from the intake with the air cleaner removed.

The car also will sometimes idle smooth for a couple of seconds then go to misfiring and dying. This usually happens during the first start of the car. After that it will long crank to fire then shake all about and quit.

I wish it would run for a minute for me to collect some info.

I'll pull the valve cover again tomorrow and check it out but being that it WILL run smooth sometimes shows that it's capable of running good.

My guess would be a failed anti shutter valve. If the plastic gears in it are extremely worn, it may be sticking closed or sometimes sticking partially closed.

Would explain why it runs fine sometimes and like a pile of puke other times.

Try these checks also
Fuel temperature sensor on fuel pipe return between oil filter and air cleaner, sometimes the wires are crossed at the connector and they short out( check for cracked insulation) making the car think it is -60C.

You can remove the maf electrical connector so that it runs on the default program. Put a thin sheet metal blocking plate between the flange on the egr cooler pipe.

I am working on the premise it is getting to much fuel or not enough air.

I'm working on uploading a video or two for the post after this one.

I got the car to idle on it's own for an extended period of time so I could look at some data. While it was idling it did not set any codes, that seems to happen when it keeps shutting off after starting.

While it was running I messed with the harness as much as I could and didn't see a change in how it was running. With that and the fact that I can't find any chafing I think it's safe to rule the harness out for now. The injector balance was decent at idle as well. I'll post some screenshots I took here in a few minutes.

The issue shows it self when trying to come off idle. If you rev it slow it will rev up but doesn't run very smooth. If you try to rev it quick it misfires and bucks around while spewing a good bit of smoke. Smoke comes out from behind the engine when this happens which is from the EGR cooler I'm almost certain. It was hissing a while back and I did a little experiment on sealing around the valve shaft with fire place cement. This hissing is gone but I don't think it did much for sealing as there is soot around the EGR cooler and it's obviously smoking from that area with these problems.

The EGR duty cycle is at 100% at idle and comes down to around 80 when it's revved. The fuel temp shows normal. All of the other temps show normal. It's almost acting as if it's getting too much EGR. I had the valve out recently to clean so I don't think it's fouled up much. The ASV is also functioning properly.

I will say that I may hear a slight popping out of the intake at idle (especially when warm) so the cam and followers may need to be replaced very soon. I find it hard to believe that the cam is the SOUL issue with this concern as this concern came up after the car was parked for a few days after running perfectly.

Here are a couple videos.

Possible follower noise from intake.


Stumbling when revving the car off idle

Here is a injector deviation log at idle:
17:10:41 Group 013: Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation)
-0.28 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
-0.12 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 2
0.02 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 3
0.38 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 4

Here is a screen shot of some data at around 1,500 rpm:

Other users and myself have observed unusual and hard to explain anomalies with our BRMs that ultimately were resolved by replacing the battery. Also, how is the fuel filter doing? That is the diesel joke, isn't it? No matter what the problem, try replacing the fuel filter.

sptsailing said:

Other users and myself have observed unusual and hard to explain anomalies with our BRMs that ultimately were resolved by replacing the battery. Also, how is the fuel filter doing? That is the diesel joke, isn't it? No matter what the problem, try replacing the fuel filter.

Click to expand...

The car is extremely well maintained, by me. The fuel filter is maybe 6 months old.

The cam lobes are worn slightly more than they were 40k miles ago when I first inspected it. The exhaust lobes have taken most all of the damage it seems. The intake lobs look pretty good. I'll post the pics in the order that I took them from cylinder 1-4.








The first and last exhaust lobes seem to be the worst. Especially the 1st one. As you can see there is some pretty nasty wear that you can feel with a pick or really any object all the way around the lobe. I bet #1 and #4 exhaust followers are holed or nearly holed.

Even with this damage I do not the think that this is the sole reason the car is running poorly. It was running fine when parked and now it doesn't. It can certainly be said that the car probably shouldn't be driven in this condition to prevent further damage but I don't feel the camshaft is 100% of the diagnosis as to it's poor running condition.

Well, I hate to keep adding info without any replies but I'm just trying to get all I can out there. For whatever reason the car will drive now. But low end power sucks. Here are a couple of scope screenshots. Both have the same data blocks selected. Both are graphs from a stop to 3rd gear or so, you can see in the RPM.

The turbo doesn't seem to be supplying the required pressure that the ECU is asking for. During acceleration the actual boost is roughly 500mbar less than specified. I ran a charge pressure test. The actuator cycles the rod up and down during the test but the boost pressure is flat lined while the turbo is cycled on and off.

I can't explain the poor charge pressure test results but is it possible that the 4 worn exhaust cam lobes are starving the turbine side of the turbo making it hard for the turbo to produce boost on the compressor side?

It's the cam

bbexotics said:

It's the cam

Click to expand...

Might you be able to elaborate a bit more? Are you going off the photos of the lobes or something else?

Firstly, your cam is alsmost shot. Order a magnetic drain plug and install it at your next oil change. It won't hurt in any case.

Secondly, start saving for cam replacement (full kit). Start reading on how to do the job correclty. Buy the parts, find a shop (or DIY) and get it replaced. Yes, it is driveable at this condition, however, it is heading towards its end of life.

Finally the graph you have provided seems to be odd. Yellow color has got its max set to 1500 mbar, while grey (or what color is that??) is at 2500 mbar.
Could you do another pull in 2nd or 3rd gear and do a graph of it with ONLY specified & actual pressures graphed (no need for engine speed and accelerator position) and both maximum limits set to 2500 mbar? Several pulls with graphs would not hurt..

Quote from OP post #1

It was not misfueled.
The lift pump provides ample volume.
The cam timing is dead on.
There are 2 codes that are listen on the scan I posted on the other thread. (B1S1 o2 and MAF codes.)
While running the car smokes out of the exhaust and smoke puffs out of the air cleaner when it shuts off.
The common hardness chafe areas don't show any harness damage.

Cam, cam and cam.

If you knew the cam was worn previously you should have already prepared for the replacement. Now you have grinding compound floating around.

If you run that motor anymore you will only increase the risk of more expensive damage.

James & Son said:

Cam, cam and cam.

If you knew the cam was worn previously you should have already prepared for the replacement. Now you have grinding compound floating around.

If you run that motor anymore you will only increase the risk of more expensive damage.

Click to expand...

Yes, if it were my car I would have already done the cam. It's not my car. I told the owner (a close family friend) to expect me to have to do a cam replacement in the near future. The wear that I saw upon first looking at the cam was the lost chamfer. The rough cam lobes look much worse in the photos than they really are BUT the cam should be perfectly smooth and it's not. I would have been able to do the cam shortly after the car was purchased but shortly after that the flywheel stripped and the owner had to fork out $1,300ish in the flywheel, clutch kit, TTY bolts, and some other issues like a leaking axle boot to repair all of that.

Being that they are close family I don't want to improperly diagnose a very expensive repair if after I replace the cam the poor running issue is still there. I know that you are one of the guru's around here that seems to have quite a lot of experience with these. Would you say the cam is causing the boost demand/production issue and low end power loss? I would have already diagnosed the cam as being the problem but being that the issue seemed to quickly pop up I'm afraid that something else is going on.

I have to agree with not running the car anymore however. Even if the cam is not the sole issue it is worn pretty bad on the exhaust lobes at the extreme ends of the cam and it can't be good to run it like that.

I'm going to price out some cam kits as we speak.

How about another boost graph..?

I did two. One without RPM and one with RPM. The turbo doesn't seem to build boost until 2,200rpm or so. The EGR cooler is leaking a little so it may be losing a bit of boost there, but it builds good above 2,200RPM. It seems the car has several issues that are all balled into one. Perhaps the best plan is to address the cam and EGR cooler and go from there. Maybe the boost issue is the stop adjustment or wire tie mod for the actuator, even though I can see the actuator move during a boost test.

Wow, you seem to have an underboost condition.

Check the following:
-Boost leaks. Trace everything from the trubo, to IC, inspect the IC itself, and from IC to intake.
-Vacuum plumbing. Any vacuum leaks? Cracked plumbing? How're the brakes??
-Turbo vanes control system. I haven't seen the N.A. setup but it seems to be a vacuum actuator which controls the vanes with electric position sensor. Does it hold the vacuum? Does the rod move from end to end?

Leaky EGR cooler should not cause the issue you are seeing... Of course, it will make your hood sooty from the inside so it will need to be dealt with sooner or later

The first graph without rpm shows to me that the turbo does reach requested boost.

The second graph with rpm shows again that the turbo almost reaches requested boost. If this is second gear and the pull is from 1800 rpm to 2800 rpm, the time involved is quit short and unless we know the time scale of the horizontal portion of the graph it is hard to tell how responsive the turbo is.

Normally you do pulls in third to forth gear to provide enough time to see how responsive the turbo is. This is where the turbo should actually closely match the requested.

You have not indicated that you have eliminated the MAF as faulty or not. Tell me how you have done this as you must definitely verify it is not at fault before moving on.

If it is good then you verify the egr is functioning properly (which you think you have). You can verify by using a thin tin blocking plate slide between the EGR cooler connection flange.

Then you need to consider if the exhaust has a restriction. But not likely as this is a sudden problem.

Then you move on and do all the checks to see if the turbo is providing the proper boost and working properly as described by Henrick.

Of course if you have VCDS then it can make finding the problem quicker but it is not necessary.

I myself have not run across any posts indicating injectors cause a sudden problem. It is likely the MAF EGR TURBO or possibly a temperature sensor. Poor grounds and wiring issues should also be considered.

I probably should get VCDS but the local garage has it and it has only been usefull indicating a short to the air cond. compressor RCV which means I assume I need to replace the RCV.

If your concerned about the expense, then you should also be checking the turbo shaft for end play and any up and down movement. You should also consider the expence of the air cond. compressor also.

IndicoblueWagon states everthing goes by 200,000 miles. Some cars have it happen all at once at around 100,000, then if you by that car repaired you are expense free until the rad leaks and the head liner falls as the car reaches its next phase of repairs.

1) Check the cam followers closely, they can mushroom causing them to stick in the bore.
2) Check turbo actuator: pull vacuum, test via VCDS, or manually actuate.

Good luck, John

That cam is fried, the bupping noise from the intake it the exhaust backfiring though the intake valve because the engine is choking. Until the cam gets replaced, all other troubleshooting is useless.

I would like to provide and update to this thread about the issue with this BRM. The car now has a new BEW grind cam and a new EGR cooler. The cam was worn as the pictures show. The followers were all in tact but had quite a bit of dishing, you could feel the valve stem cavity from the top. The EGR cooler was belching exhaust all behind the engine.

I went to start the car up for the cam break-in, same exact issue as mentioned in the first post. It would start and idle for a couple of seconds then die. I removed the cold side charge air hose to an OPEN ASV. When remove the connection at the ASV quite a bit of smoke bellowed out. The car would start and idle fine. There was still a distinct popping noise from the intake manifold. I hooked up the charge air hose when it appeared to idle without it and it choked out and died.

I got to breaking down what could be going on in a simpler form as sometimes that is what it takes. If I hit the go pedal with everything hooked up to try to keep it running it would choke out faster and abruptly die. It makes you think that it can't provide the fuel for some reason when it dies on hitting the pedal. The smoke from the intake told me there was plenty of fuel and it must not have enough oxygen. There is really only way that smoke can get into the intake with a mechanical intact cylinder head. The EGR valve. The valve shows 100% (shut) on VCDS at idle. The EGR valve test makes zero difference in how it runs as it thinks the valve is cycling. I removed the EGR valve and found it hung open quite a bit. I cleaned it, pushed it shut, reinstalled without plugging it in and the car runs like a hot rod. All of the problems gone. I proceeded with the cam break-in. I drove the car after cam break-in was complete and the boost was there like RIGHT NOW. I plugged the EGR valve back in for grins and it went to running like garbage again. Rev and it would spit and sputter and cough slowly up. I removed it, shut it, and left it unplugged again and it's good again. The wiring looks good so it appears the valve took a dump. I'm letting it go the next 500 miles on cam break-in before dealing with replacing the valve. It runs great with it unplugged but, of course, has a hard code.

With the intake system fully intact the engine would burn the oxygen in the intercooler and hoses but couldn't suck enough in to counteract the excessive exhaust entering the intake. When removing the cold side tube leaving the ASV in the open the engine was able to suck enough air in with less restriction to keep it at an idle but it still really wouldn't rev much. The excessive EGR flow as also robbing the turbo of juice so it wasn't able to get spooling to cram some oxygen in there.

The car runs like new now and will have the DTC cleared up with a new valve BUT now I have a new issue to tackle with it. The torsion valve bounces all over the place. The idle is butter smooth and the IQ's are about as good as they can be. The timing was verified to be dead nuts on mechanically so there is something going on electrically I suppose. The G28 speed on VCDS is rock solid so I guess the cam signal may have an issue. You can't read that on VCDS so I may have to scope it. With the look of the rectifier ring I bet the cam signal is crazy looking.