VW Won't Relaunch "Clean Diesels" as Part Of US Core

IFRCFI · Jul 20, 2016

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1105084_vw-wont-relaunch-clean-diesels-in-the-us-execs-say

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ZippyNH · Jul 20, 2016

Yeah...
Another article said they hoped to have diesels back in late 17, and 18...kinda said the current drain train fit sell with the current cars, but changes would happen as DIESEL cars are reduced in scope as VW pulls back from them....he also stated further emission rule changes in 19-22 would require additional investment in new technology....and then the gw spokesman spoke about VW and their commitment to electric cars....
Got the feeling the end is near...

ZippyNH · Jul 20, 2016

Double post

Swatch · Jul 20, 2016

ZippyNH said:
Yeah...
Another article said they hoped to have diesels back in late 17, and 18...kinda said the current drain train fit sell with the current cars, but changes would happen as DIESEL cars are reduced in scope as VW pulls back from them....he also stated further emission rule changes in 19-22 would require additional investment in new technology....and then the gw spokesman spoke about VW and their commitment to electric cars....
Got the feeling the end is near...

The end happened last September. RIP VW TDI.

Powder Hound · Jul 22, 2016

So my current fleet will now become more and more valuable as the competition dries up. Hmmm....

Cheers,

PH

RebelTDI · Jul 22, 2016

This is not surprising. VW is probably going to shift it's focus to electric and hybrids. It did say "most" diesels and not "all". I thought I read that the 3.0L TDIs may continue to be offered. The 3.0L is in quite a few Audi models and from what I've read in the past may be easier to control NOx levels. I don't have the references at my fingertips, though.

gearheadgrrrl · Jul 22, 2016

Problem is that the cost of emissions compliance has become too high to justify in a low to medium priced car. As for TDIs rising in value, remember that VW will be buying back, hopefully repairing, and then reselling a couple hundred thousand...

n1das · Jul 22, 2016

Swatch said:
The end happened last September. RIP VW TDI.

No TDI from VW means no VWs for me in the future. Regardless of what I own and drive, it HAS to be diesel. Absolutely no more gassers! VW already lost me to BMW Advanced Diesel

a couple of years ago and having nothing to do with the scandal.

Powder Hound said:
So my current fleet will now become more and more valuable as the competition dries up. Hmmm....

Cheers,

PH

My thoughts exactly. My 535d and X5 35d are planned to be long term keepers and even more so now because of how VW screwed the pooch.

If I someday add another diesel vehicle to my all-diesel fleet, it likely will be a diesel pickup truck. The diesel pickup truck market does not appear to be threatened at all and is expanding. Makes me wish I had kept my 08 Ford F350 SuperDuty truck w/6.4L PowerStroke Diesel I owned a couple of years ago. That truck was too damn useful for those times when I needed a truck and I miss it now. I am also becoming more of a truck guy too. I will probably have a diesel pickup truck again some day.

patbob · Jul 23, 2016

gearheadgrrrl said:
.. VW will be buying back, hopefully repairing, and then reselling a couple hundred thousand...

Buying back, yes, but repairing and reselling, no. They'll just ship the cars to some country that doesn't have the emission standards and resell them there unmodified. My bet is Mexico since its left hand drive, close, and they won't be matching US diesel emission standards until 2018.

gearheadgrrrl · Jul 23, 2016

No, the settlement forbids VW exporting TDIs that haven't been repaired to comply.

waltzconmigo · Jul 23, 2016

patbob said:
Buying back, yes, but repairing and reselling, no. They'll just ship the cars to some country that doesn't have the emission standards and resell them there unmodified. My bet is Mexico since its left hand drive, close, and they won't be matching US diesel emission standards until 2018.

VW is prohibited from exporting any of the vehicles that do not get the fix and meet the new standard, this is part of the agreement/settlement.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 23, 2016

VW is going to repair and resell TDIs in the US. Announced at last week's dealer meeting. Cars will be repaired both by dealers and at remote locations.

Dimitri16V · Jul 23, 2016

Customers will be offered the option of having it fixed or buy back
Buy backs will be crushed

2009s will be 12500 for example as buy back

waltzconmigo · Jul 23, 2016

buybacks may be crushed or they may receive the fix, if approved, and be re-released into the wild.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 23, 2016

Dimitri16V said:
Buy backs will be crushed

Incorrect. Buybacks will be fixed and offered to dealers for resale. If a dealer doesn't want it, they'll be auctioned or wholesaled. They may even be sold offshore. They have no plans to crush any cars.

Jimmy Coconuts · Jul 24, 2016

IndigoBlueWagon said:
VW is going to repair and resell TDIs in the US. Announced at last week's dealer meeting. Cars will be repaired both by dealers and at remote locations.

Since the cars receiving an "approved fix" (especially Gen 1) won't be required to be fully emissions compliant as part of the settlement, this should result in a steady stream of used TDIs coming on the market for the next couple of years. This should result in depressed prices on these cars, representing a very solid buyer's market.

Prior to this news, the buyback seemed to me like the best choice for most owners. Now I would say it is the only choice.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 24, 2016

No doubt the buyback is generous. And I don't think anyone would disagree that it'll be the highest price you'll get for your used TDI, perhaps ever.

However, remember that the repaired car comes with a minimum of $5,100 in cash. If the owner plans to keep their TDI for a while, this can be an excellent deal.

I was talking with friends last night who have a 2010 Jetta Sedan with 120K miles on it. The buyback isn't that attractive to them. They love the car, don't know of anything in the market that will do what it does, so the fix and cash, along with the new emissions system warranty, is pretty attractive. They just had the timing belt service done and don't really care about resale since they keep cars a long time. And replacing it after buyback would mean a significant cash outlay in addition to the buyback amount. I think there are a fair number of people like them out there.

showdown 42 · Jul 24, 2016

If you don't like you car, Gen 1 people get rid of it,but you will get almost nothing for it,especially 09-10 cars.

It is the kiss of car death for VW if they eliminate the diesel,They have nothing competetive in the gasser realm of cars. The cars are too expensive to service,poor warranty coverage vs KIA and other korean brands, poor dealerships etc,etc.

I predict the existing diesel cars will go up in value due the scarcity of the product.

Dimitri16V · Jul 24, 2016

Not with gas cars getting 30 mpgs and diesel prices higher in winter time

Regarding the "fix" , does anybody here have any faith on the dealers accomplishing this successfully and in timely manner ?
What will the used value for the "fixed" cars be ? I am sure dealers will be thrilled trying to sell "refurbished " TDIs .

I am sad to see the diesels go but the TDI chapter in US has closed

patbob · Jul 27, 2016

gearheadgrrrl said:
No, the settlement forbids VW exporting TDIs that haven't been repaired to comply.

Wow, I'm shocked. A government agency that didn't leave a loop hole for the big company to take advantage of. They must really have it out for VW.

Its nice to hear that they'll be fixing and reselling them, since it means there will continue to be TDIs on the roads (I'd miss them -- there's a ton of them around here).

tadawson · Jul 28, 2016

Frankly, I'm amazed that that restriction is legal. The cars are the property of VW, and the EPA has zero authority over what is sold outside the US. If the 2016's are still at port, and not technically imported yet, then the EPA doesn't get a vote on those at all, since technically, they are not in the country yet.

- Tim

meerschm · Jul 28, 2016

it is an agreement

pknopp · Jul 29, 2016

As of right now there is NO fix. I have read rumors of a fix but those rumors may be floated for a reason. Those of us that have been around know that any fix that will get the EPA's approval will not come cheap or it would have been done long ago.

They are lying if they claim a fix won't affect fuel mileage or performance also. With gas and electric cars getting diesels mileage now or better there isn't going to be a huge market for these cars.

There will be some old diesel die hards like me but if there was a fix it would flood the markets and any resale would plummet. My situation changed and I need a truck. I'm currently looking at a Ram Diesel........Maybe the Chevy Canyon. VW will get my car. 2012 JSW with 80,000 for 20K.

Yeah, at some point I might be interested in buying one back for a fraction of what I sold VW mine for. I'm not counting on a EPA approved fix that doesn't gut the car.

The desire for a car that has higher maintenance costs while getting no better mileage than a gas car is not going to be there like the market for a diesel once was. I say that being in that boat........while considering the diesel trucks I am also considering the Ford F-150 2.7 as it gets nearly as good of fuel mileage all without the added EPA added hassles of a diesel.

Those that keep their cars had actually better hope for no fix. With no fix parts become plentiful with the cars becoming increasing rare for the die hards which will keep their prices up.

ZippyNH · Jul 29, 2016

Anybody who thinks an electric car will replace a DIESEL car that the driver drives 15,000+miles per year is crazy. The NUMBER OF HOURS of charging needed is insane to be able to drive an electric that much, especially in 75-140 mile burst's. Most diesels are driven on long distance highway drives, often for HOURS at a time...folks keep on bringing it up...but a $100,000 Tesla will not replace a $25,000 vw...
The TINY subset of DIESEL drivers who drive their cars in town on short trips are in the wrong car....for so many reasons I don't even want to list.
Sometimes events like this remind me of how many "smart" people need to get out more....a few of the most educated folks I ever knew were the dumbest folks I ever meet....

tadawson · Jul 29, 2016

pknopp said:
As of right now there is NO fix. I have read rumors of a fix but those rumors may be floated for a reason. Those of us that have been around know that any fix that will get the EPA's approval will not come cheap or it would have been done long ago.

They are lying if they claim a fix won't affect fuel mileage or performance also. With gas and electric cars getting diesels mileage now or better there isn't going to be a huge market for these cars.

There will be some old diesel die hards like me but if there was a fix it would flood the markets and any resale would plummet. My situation changed and I need a truck. I'm currently looking at a Ram Diesel........Maybe the Chevy Canyon. VW will get my car. 2012 JSW with 80,000 for 20K.

Yeah, at some point I might be interested in buying one back for a fraction of what I sold VW mine for. I'm not counting on a EPA approved fix that doesn't gut the car.

The desire for a car that has higher maintenance costs while getting no better mileage than a gas car is not going to be there like the market for a diesel once was. I say that being in that boat........while considering the diesel trucks I am also considering the Ford F-150 2.7 as it gets nearly as good of fuel mileage all without the added EPA added hassles of a diesel.

Those that keep their cars had actually better hope for no fix. With no fix parts become plentiful with the cars becoming increasing rare for the die hards which will keep their prices up.

So you work in VW engineering? Otherwise, this is nothing more than hot noxious gaseous emission . . . not even a decent guess . . . The fix is documented in the court docs, and likely is in longevity test at this time. All that is lacking is *approval* at this point, and frankly, we don't have any right to info in the interim. And considering the scope of what I have read about the various fixes, calling the 'no or minimal MPG/torque' claim a lie continues to be nothing more than trolling.

And unless I compare a gas clown car to a TDI midsize, I have no idea where you get the idea that mileage is even close . . . and an e-turd is completely non viable here . . . my open road trip leg length tends to run 450 to 500 between stops, and the stops are typically no more than 15 to 20 mins . . . the amount of time I would waste in an e-turd would be huge, and my time has value as well.

And I don't buy cars with any consideration of resale, so also an irrelevancy. I run a car until it is 'used up', and the $100 delta in resale from this at that point just doesn't matter!

ColoradoDriver · Jul 31, 2016

One thing to consider is that all "fixed" TDIs will be sold with a branded title indicating that the vehicle was part of an emissions problem. That will result in a substantially lower resell price--much like titles of vehicles that have been in a flood, etc.

IndigoBlueWagon · Aug 1, 2016

ColoradoDriver said:
One thing to consider is that all "fixed" TDIs will be sold with a branded title indicating that the vehicle was part of an emissions problem. That will result in a substantially lower resell price--much like titles of vehicles that have been in a flood, etc.

What will the title say? Same in all states? In Massachusetts titles are only affected if (a) the car has a lien; (b) if it's been "totaled" for some reason, i.e. accident or flood. Don't think either applies in this situation. Will the millions of cars repaired for having airbags that can kill drivers have a branded title? I don't think so. How about ignition switch failures? Nope. The emissions fix may show up on a Carfax report, but most consumers won't even know what it means. Just another repair.

Although buyers might know about the recall, I doubt it will make a difference. The numbers of used TDIs available MAY affect resale, but we don't even know how many cars will be resold and at what pace. I'm betting most consumers won't eve know.

This post, and this thread title are increasingly frequent examples of dieselgate overstatement. This isn't the end of the world, gentlemen. Try and keep a bit of perspective.

tadawson · Aug 1, 2016

ColoradoDriver said:
One thing to consider is that all "fixed" TDIs will be sold with a branded title indicating that the vehicle was part of an emissions problem. That will result in a substantially lower resell price--much like titles of vehicles that have been in a flood, etc.

According to *WHO* exactly? That makes absolutely no sense . . . they don't tag titles for any other recall, why should this be different?

I call BS at this point . . .

ColoradoDriver · Aug 4, 2016

tadawson said:
According to *WHO* exactly? That makes absolutely no sense . . . they don't tag titles for any other recall, why should this be different?

I call BS at this point . . .

Not BS!!!

Here is the wording about branded title from the 26 July court presentations:

“We also made sure, all parties, that no car can be resold
in the United States or removed from the United States unless
and until an approved emissions modification is applied. And
the cars that are not fixed will be rendered inoperable and
they'll be branded. And if the cars are fixed, they will still
have a title indication or certification indication that they
were a part of this problem.”

Bob

PS: Here is the link to the court website. See the 7/28 posting of court proceeding near the bottom: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwmdl

patbob · Aug 4, 2016

I don't get what the big deal is. All the VW diesels are "branded" -- they all say TDI right there on the title.

VW may reintroduce diesels again, but I'll ne very suprised if they try to use the TDI brand on them

VW Won't Relaunch "Clean Diesels" as Part Of US Core

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