www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > General Automotive

General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 10th, 2005, 07:51   #1
rotarykid
Veteran Member
 
rotarykid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
Fuel Economy: 64 .1city @ 30-60 mph/ 52-53 @ 70-85 mph hyway ( 52 to just under 60 normal around town)on LSD
Default Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

Quote ;{

Real World" Driving Tests Show Current EPA
Miles Per Gallon Estimates Are Outdated, Auto Club Says
(Los Angeles, March 3, 2005) Each year, Automobile Club of Southern California and AAA car review experts test new vehicle models under "real world" driving conditions and come to the same conclusion as many motorists the actual miles per gallon achieved during the daily use of a vehicle generally falls well short of Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates. These driving tests found dozens of examples where vehicle miles per gallon of on 2003 and 2004 model years were overestimated because of outdated 30-year-old EPA tests.

To address this issue, the Auto Club joined AAA today to announce its support of the "Fuel Efficiency Truth-in-Advertising Act of 2005" that would require EPA to update its miles per gallon testing procedures. The legislation has bi-partisan support in the United States Congress and is sponsored by U.S. Representative Nancy Johnson (R-CT) and U.S. Representative Rush Holt (D-NJ).

"New car buyers soon see that their experience with mileage often falls short of EPA estimates," said Steve Mazor, principal automotive engineer. "It's not a case of 'your mileage results may vary.' We know that, in most cases, 'your results WILL vary.'"

In its analysis, AAA cited mpg in its test drives of some of the most popular vehicles driven today that were significantly lower than EPA city estimates. (See examples below.)

Although the AAA test drives are neither standardized nor scientific, the nation's organization for motorists says its "real world" driving trips may be more meaningful to consumers as they make car-buying decisions. AAA's testers put vehicles through a range of driving cycles that include stop-and-go traffic, climbing steep grades, trips to the grocery and a combination of both highway and city driving

The current EPA tests were established in the late 1970s and do not take into account higher speed limits on many interstates and increased congestion nationwide. The tests are even conducted with the air conditioner off.

"We believe consumers should have the most accurate information possible when it comes to expected gas mileage of the vehicles they purchase," said Mazor. "This would be accomplished by requiring EPA to use real-world tests in setting federal mileage estimates."

............Vehicle Year EPA , City EPA ,. Highway EPA , AAA Estimate



BMW Z-4........................03........21..........29. .......15
BMW Z-4........................04........21..........29. .......14.5
CHEV TRAIL BLAZER.......03........15..........21........13.9
CHEV TRAIL BLAZER.......04........15..........21........13.6
CHEV S-10.....................03........17..........23... .....15
CHRYSLER PT CRUISER...03........20..........26........17.5
CHRYSLER PT CRUISER...04........21..........29........17.5
CRYSLER SEBRING LXI....03........20..........29........18.9
DODGE NEON.................03........28..........35..... ...24
DODGE NEON.................04........27..........33..... ...24
GMC SIERRA..................03........16..........21.. ......15.3
GMC SONOMA................04........16..........21.... ....15.2
HONDA INSIGHT............03........61..........70....... .58
HONDA INSIGHT............04........61..........68....... .58.1
HONDA ELEMENT............04........21..........25....... .20.4
INFINITI M45.................04........17..........23...... ..16.9
JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE.03........15..........20........14.5
JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE.04........15..........21........14.5
JEEP WRANGLER............03........19..........21...... ..18
JEEP WRANGLER............04........19..........20...... ..18
LEXUS LX 470................03........13..........16....... .10.8
LEXUS LX 470................04........13..........17....... .10.8
MAZDA TRIBUTE............03........20..........24....... .19.1
MERCURY GRAND MRQ...03........18..........26........17.9
MERCURY MOUNTNR.......03........16..........21........14.2
MITSUBISHI MONTERO...03........15..........19........14
MITSUBISHI MONTERO...04........15..........19........14
MONTERO SPORT...........03........17..........20........15
MONTERO SPORT...........04........17..........20........15
NISSAN ALTIMA.............03........23..........29....... .22.3
NISSAN ALTIMA.............04........23..........29....... .22.3
NISSAN PATHFNDER.......03........16..........19........15 .2
NISSAN PATHFNDER.......04........16..........19........15 .2
TOYOTA ECHO...............03........34..........41....... .32
TOYOTA ECHO...............04........35..........43....... .32
TOYOTA TUNDRA...........03........14..........19........1 3.2
TOYOTA 4RUNNER..........04........18..........21........1 7.8
TOYOTA COROLLA..........04........32..........40........2 8.9

The Automobile Club of Southern California, the largest AAA affiliate, has been serving members since 1900. Today, Auto Club members benefit by the organization's roadside assistance, financial products, travel agency and trip planning services, highway and transportation safety programs, insurance products and services and automotive pricing, buying and financing programs. Information about these products and services is available on the Auto Club's web site at www.aaa-calif.com.

}; Quote


Thought that the surprise of the public over this a little funny . The VW diesels are not included in the AAA tests.

No surprise to me , these #s' are in line with what I and many others already know that the auto industry has used this system and these #s' to get away with selling low mpg vehicles (SUVs) to a stupid and uneducated public .

And will continue to do so if they can get away with it . Most speedos are off by enough to fool the ingnorant public into thinking that they are getting much higher mpgs than reality shows . Most SUV speedos are off as much as full 1/10 of a mile or more in some cases to fool the owner into thinking they are getting as much 4 to 8 mpgs higher than they are actually getting .

So all of this is no surprise to me .
rotarykid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2005, 07:59   #2
dieseldorf
top post dawg
 
dieseldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MA
Default Re: Real World MPGs from AAA

not such great news for some of those vehicles sampled. In my experience, our cars great very close to the predicted EPA numbers.
dieseldorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2005, 08:10   #3
mgwerks
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas Hill Country
Fuel Economy: 51/47/42
Default Re: Real World MPGs from AAA

Mine's close enough not to worry. But the EPA says 21 on my truck and I get 19-20 there, too. I'm not sure I believe the Insight numbers, though. After all, why would they test for "trips to the grocery" when there's no room for groceries?

mgwerks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2005, 08:59   #4
Jwagen04
Veteran Member
 
Jwagen04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Default Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

Quote:
GMC SIERRA..................03........16..........21.. ......15.3

This is dead on. I had this same exact vehicle and always got around 15 mpg. Best was 17 mpg doing 60 mph.
Jwagen04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2005, 16:17   #5
Magnulus
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Fuel Economy: 39 mpg
Default Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

Are you kidding? I easily can achieve the EPA estimates for the 2003 TDI in city driving- I get about 34 mpg for an automatic on my BAD tanks. On good tanks I can get 40 mpg.
Magnulus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2005, 07:28   #6
tjl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: California, USA
Fuel Economy: 55/52/47 (mpg)
Default Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

Well, of course if the "highway" is a southern California traffic jam, the highway fuel economy will be a lot worse than the EPA estimate (unless you have a Prius that can get 70mpg in certain types of traffic jam situations). City fuel economy can vary a lot based on the type of city.

But I suspect that a lot of the worse fuel economy is due to typical driving habits. Lots of drivers fail to watch traffic patterns ahead, resulting in unnecessary acceleration and braking.

My examples (70-80% highway with some traffic jams):

my fuel economy / EPA / car

52 / 42/49 / 2001 Golf TDI
39 / 31/35 / 1988 Civic
25 / 23/28 / 1982 Volvo with rack and boat on top (EPA numbers adjusted to reflect current reporting methods)
52 / 60/51 / 2004 Prius (co-worker's, 90% highway trip)
tjl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2005, 14:18   #7
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default Re: Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

I have normally found with gasoline vehicles that the real-world mixed patterns are in line with the estimates for city driving. The above chart more-or-less agrees, with a couple of examples that are spectacularly worse.

The TDI uses roughly the same as what Transport Canada says it should. (Our test procedures are hardly different, if at all.)
GoFaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2005, 17:57   #8
shalwechat
Veteran Member
Default Re: Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

that chart is very close on. i have a 98 mits montero, a 02 toy echo, 00 buck lesabre, and a a 00 honda insight. the echo and lesabre i bought used at carmax.

in a mix of city/suburban driving, no hills or mountains, and no stuff in the trunk or back seats. i get about 15mpg on the montero, 29mpg on the echo, 19mpg in the lesabre and 55mpg in the insight. even with the mb diesel i still never made epa mpg figures. i sold the diesel mb. the chart is about 4-5 mpg optimistic

again those who say "my tdi get much better mpg" or you "should get 40 mpg" are usually qualifying it by saying you need to drive effecintly. that like taking a hangover pill and taking 4 full glasses a water b4 calling it a night. then the next morning you tell everyone how the hangover pill cured your hangover.
shalwechat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2005, 01:35   #9
William J Toensing
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nevada City, CA
Fuel Economy: 3 fill ups:34,42, & 44MPG
Default Re: Real World MPG #s\' from AAA

I run Amsoil synthetic lubricants in the engines & transmissions in my cars & find I usally cone close to the EPA postings , even on our crapy Calif. enviornmental blend high priced gas.There were a couple times on trips that I got 37 MPG in my Ford Focus ZX3 5 speed. I have gotten as low as 20 MPG. I normally average 28 to 30 MPG. On a 1996 Ford Escort 5 speed I once got as high as 47 MPG but would usually average about 4 MPG better than my Focus under similar driving conditions. Winter blend gas gives less MPG & in summer falls when I have to use my A/C. I keep a continious log of my fuel usage from the time I first buy the car untill I sell it. I owned a 1983 Nissan diesel 4 speed & totaled up the total fuel useage over the 50,000 miles I owned it & averaged 42 MPG for the 50,000 miles. My 1985 Mazda 626 diesel averaged around 32 to 33 MPG but I had an extra tank & could drive from LA to Mpls with one fill up & still have enough fuel to drive around Mpls for a week before refueling. There are many factors that affect MPG: speed, head wind, tail wind, use of A/C, quality of fuel, winter or summer, city or highway driving, etc. My 1979 Citroen CX diesel averages arounf 32 to 33 MPG but I once won an economy run ralley with it getting 53 MPG but I can't stand driving that way for an extended period.
William J Toensing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15661 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 91.46 Kb. compressed to 78.90 Kb. by saving 12.56 Kb. (13.74%)]