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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old February 19th, 2020, 11:02   #31
tikal
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Thank you Lightflyer1 and CleverUserName.

I applaud people who are willing to collect and share their data in this forum (or others for that matter). This is, in my humble opinion, one way to make TDIClub more meaningful. I also agree that, one vehicle at the time, perhaps the benefit(s) additives come across as negligible. It is also unlikely that we will settle the topic of the cost/benefit of diesel additives here and anytime soon. Sometimes further specific question(s)/comment(s) can be handled via private messaging, if anyone reading this thread feels uncomfortable to post his/her opinion.
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Old February 19th, 2020, 20:52   #32
CleverUserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
For the Golf supposedly pre additive (as it doesn't show that anywhere) you have .3% and then for the one post additive for a VW you have .2%. Not much of a difference really. Even for the GM you went from .2% to .1%. Hardly a meaningful change. Very low overall %'s with or without additives. Statistically I doubt there is any difference here. But if it makes you feel good then okay. These tiny differences will make no difference in anything to do with your car in my opinion. The really meaningful thing shown here is that with or without additives your soot% is very low.
Your arguments are logical fallacies. I already said the mileage post additive is higher which you ignore in an attempt to prove your points.

The total mileage (time) on the golf increased by 24% on the second UOA yet soot was reduced by 1/3. You could extrapolate that out to a further reduction at the same mileage (11.2K).

The total mileage (time) on the truck increased by a whopping 59% on the second UOA, however soot was reduced by 50%. You could extrapolate that out to a huge reduction at the same mileage (8.4K).

Statically, the % difference is significant. It "means" something because it's a beneficial measurable improvement in engine, emissions system and oil cleanliness and proves the points I've already made in my previous posts.

I can also say that in my own experience in a modern diesel engine with high EGR flow rates, soot is usually 0.4% to 1.0% for 10K miles. the 0.4 would be with untreated CA diesel #2 and the 1.0% would be with B20 (which burns dirty).

Assuming the cost of treatment is $0.10/gal, D2 is $4/Gal and there is a 2% fuel economy improvement the additive pays for itself. That is without factoring in the other benefits like added lubricity, Injector deposit control, Demuslification of water, corrosion prevention, etc...

It's just the hassle of storage and measuring it out. And as I also said before, additives "respond" better to poorer quality fuels. You would see a much more dramatic improvement by adding this stuff to B20 or 40 cetane ULSD.
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Old February 20th, 2020, 07:31   #33
Mongler98
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Hope you do understand that all fuel in the usa comes from refineries set to the same standards. The cars we buy set these standards basically. Adding anything is unnessasary other than gelling. Granted if it's for an engine set for standard that are not available like leaded gas, and non low sulfur diesel then adding that back in is good for long term health for the most part. Arguing over fuel quality is just pointless and any side effects from station to station are 99.9% placebo effect of the fuel used. Don't go spouting off about who is right or wrong, it changes nothing. Read up. Learn facts. Do what you want. Try not to get suckered into marketing.
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Old February 20th, 2020, 08:51   #34
CleverUserName
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Hope you do understand that all fuel in the usa comes from refineries set to the same standards. The cars we buy set these standards basically. Adding anything is unnessasary other than gelling. Granted if it's for an engine set for standard that are not available like leaded gas, and non low sulfur diesel then adding that back in is good for long term health for the most part. Arguing over fuel quality is just pointless and any side effects from station to station are 99.9% placebo effect of the fuel used. Don't go spouting off about who is right or wrong, it changes nothing. Read up. Learn facts. Do what you want. Try not to get suckered into marketing.
Hey smart guy. Thatís actually false. You should not be providing advice on things you know very little about.

California diesel #2 also called ďCARBĒ diesel is highly refined and formulated differently because of California minimum fuel standards for air quality. Thatís why Iíve repeatedly said that in this thread. Thatís is also one of the reasons itís $4 a gallon here.

There are variances in fuel quality between different stations as well, there are also the Top Tier brands which also sell a product which is above the federal minimum standards. CA has no biodiesel mandate so itís possible to get pure diesel. B20 is available in addition to R99 and R70 but itís clearly labeled.

Read this. https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/fuels/diesel/...0809prsntn.pdf
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Old February 20th, 2020, 09:29   #35
Mongler98
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You missed it! Sorry you cant understand that the lowest standard of fuel is 100% perfect acceptable. Passing with a D. Yea you can do better. Never said you can't. But it's pointless as it wont do damage as the cars design is designed to deal with it.
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Old February 20th, 2020, 13:24   #36
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No one sells fuel at the minimum spec. If you look at the fuel quality report you will see that the mean for the Midwest is at high/mean/low of 60/48/42. West coast at 78/53/46 and east coast at 52/47/43. It isn't a definitive study but at least a sampling of what is out there. Probably improved as well in the last few years, it has since the first one I posted in 2014 and checking since 2009.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/medi...0-14112018.pdf

The soot levels both before and after are miniscule as well regardless of the miles. No one else cares about your truck but you. This is a VW tdi site. But you win, it makes a huge, huge difference to you in your cars. The rest of us aren't really having soot buildup issues in properly running cars with no additives.

Plenty of people have gone hundreds of thousands of miles using the old fuel and had the intake and such almost completely blocked by soot and yet the car ran just fine still. Everyone else will just have to make up their own mind whether they want to use and additive or not. Some like to and some couldn't be bothered and both cars still go down the road okay.

We don't need to discuss this any more I guess. You have stated your case and I mine. Everyone else will make up their own minds as well. Happy motoring!
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Old February 20th, 2020, 15:20   #37
tdidieselbobny
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Peak additives have been out almost 2 years now, first saw it at Home Depot after they deep discounted all the Power Service products(911, white and grey bottles, various sizes)I think it was May 2018- I cleared the shelves of all Power Service products at my local Home Depot. They sell the Peak stuff at Tractor Supply and Autozone near me. I watched a couple unscientific videos on YouTube where a person tested lubricity and gelling prevention of a few additives and ATF-opened my eyes....
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Old February 20th, 2020, 18:07   #38
Mongler98
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boy you just hate money don't you
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