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LanduytG · Jul 25, 2004

Greg-

You may want to change your Avi. on Fred's if you're going to be
vending.

I for one will avoid supporting a supporter of bush/cheney.

I'm letting you know this not just to slam you, but because you're a
valuable asset to Fred's, and I respect your additions to the site.
You need to know that you'll be losing some business because of an
otherwise small thing. If you weren't a vendor, I wouldn't even
mention this.

I guess I don't understand if this person is not slamming me or thinks I am a valuable asset and respects my addition to Fred's then it shouldn't matter who or what I support.

All I have to say is its sad this individual or anyone else for that matter feels this way. But to let everyone know if thats how it has to be, then let it.

Kind of reminds me of the bully in school. If you don't stand up then you will always be bullied.

Greg

wny_pat · Jul 25, 2004

It is possible in life to agree to disagree on various subjects and still be friends! This is expecially true in politics and religion.

whitedog · Jul 25, 2004

It is possible in life to agree to disagree on various subjects and still be friends! This is expecially true in politics and religion.

This is a sig line from a friend on another board:

The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
- Joseph Joubert

It may be appropriate here.

gleep · Jul 25, 2004

Greg-
Kind of reminds me of the bully in school. If you don't stand up then you will always be bullied.

Greg

Click to expand...

I would prefer that you stand up somewhere else and leave politics out of Fred's.

my 2 cents.

gleep

LanduytG · Jul 25, 2004

Quote:
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Quote:
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Greg-
Kind of reminds me of the bully in school. If you don't stand up then you will always be bullied.

Greg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would prefer that you stand up somewhere else and leave politics out of Fred's.

my 2 cents.

gleep

Yes I felt that way too till a few months ago when a few liberals on the broad started pushing their views. But I guess its OK for them.

Greg

frugality · Jul 25, 2004

LanduytG's AVI is a statement, a banner, but that statement isn't being forced upon anyone. He isn't demanding that anyone change.

The person that wrote him, however, is 'suggesting' he change. "We don't take kindly to yer kind around here, partner." He's saying that LanduytG should change his AVI, under the guise that it would be better for his business, but really wants to impose his political view on LanduytG. Standing up to that is fair.

SoCalJames · Jul 25, 2004

Lets just say I'm never going to buy Heinz Ketchup again!!

TheLongshot · Jul 25, 2004

Well, this is why I usually don't like political statements as avatars. Politics has a tendency to polarize people and people make personal judgements based on that, which isn't fair.

While I may not like your avatar, you certainly have the right to display it. Problem is, tho, it may attract the wrong type of attention to you. Ultimatly, you are the only judge on whether or not you want to keep it.

Jason

jackbombay · Jul 25, 2004

Well disney did not release Farenheight 9/11 because they though they would alienate potential customers, just as the sender of the e-mail feels Greg's avitar could alienate some potential customers. Seems like a nosy e-mail to me, but nothing to get worked up about.

-Jack

Ed's TDI · Jul 25, 2004

It seems to me that some people are forgetting about the old "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of Expression" things. If you don't like it and don't agree with it, ignore it. If the sender of the e-mail had a funny haircut and we all said "It might be better for you here at TDI Club if you changed it" I'm sure he/she would say to get stuffed. It's not as thoough Greg is soliciting support from the members here, nor is he asking for political contributions. He's merely expressing his personal opinion. If I received an e-mail from somebody like that, I'd politely tell them that I will no longer do business with that person and they can find another place to get their business taken care of. Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for sharing Greg. Most people here appreciate your contibutions here and couldn't care less about your politcal orientation.

Rustynuts · Jul 25, 2004

I like a drink and am willing to visit any pub for a sample of their goods. But when my local ale house put political banners in the window at election time I chose not to give them my custom until they came down after the election. I just think that there is a time and place for political statements and Bars are not the place (the political party involved was irrelevant). I don't really care about political statements here as i have the ability to just not look at them.

"The desire to become a politician should immediately ban you for life from ever becoming one!" Billy Connolly!

frugality · Jul 26, 2004

What LanduytG (and anyone else who has put up political or religious signs) has done is as old as the hills, folks, so don't get so uptight.

In May I went on vacation to Israel to see where Jesus and the disciples came from, then to Turkey to see where half of those disciples went to spread the word. This is a picture of a shop in the city of Sardis in Turkey. This shop was on the Royal Road, one of the main arteries of the Roman road system. Notice the crosses etched in the die vats, probably made during the Byzantine period. In a shop just down the street is a cross etched in the front of the building, this time from Roman times. This Royal Road was essentially the Route 80 of the ancient world. Millions of people passed by here every year. These families had some chutspa (guts) to put their beliefs out there on their storefronts for anyone to see. They were willing to be friendly and do business with people of different beliefs. But some people probably avoided these shops because of the shop owners' views. Their loss.

delste · Jul 26, 2004

I think politics should be kept out of this site. That being said, I will buy all I can from you because of your political stand.

POWERSTROKE · Jul 26, 2004

I would gladly buy from Greg.

MayorDJQ · Jul 26, 2004

I wonder if the original complainant will boycott every Bush/Cheney/Republican business owner in his/her area?

Didn't VW receive funding and support from Hilter back in the 30's? I hope my Jewish friends don't randomly decide to stop talking to me.

DeafBug · Jul 26, 2004

it's the election year, for geez sake!

Do you avoid or at least show some negative action to people who don't remove the campain bumper stickers. I still see some cars that still have stickers from Bush and Mondale days!!!

After the election, I am sure Greg will change his avatar. This person definitely has a problem.

Keep it on, Gregg. You are doing great. Now that I see you are a supporter of Republicans.

DrStink · Jul 26, 2004

Yes I felt that way too till a few months ago when a few liberals on the broad started pushing their views. But I guess its OK for them.

Greg

When did liberal become an epithet? I long for reasoned discourse, not childish name calling. Such dogmatism, whether from the left or right, is unhealthy for our democracy.

Ideas should win on their merit, not on the basis of anti-intellectual smear campaigns. As educated adults, we should be able to disagree on issues in a civil manner and discuss them on their merit.

lib·er·al dj.

1.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
2.
1. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
5.
1. Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
2. Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.

I've been a been a registered Republican for my entire adult life. I've even worked a GOP phone bank on election day. Yet, I still consider myself a liberal (with a little l). Why? Because I am open to alternate viewpoints and despise dogma.

As far as Liberal with a big L, is that really a bad thing either? In this country, the Liberal movement gave us "the 40-hour week, Child Labor laws, Minimum Wage laws, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Civil Rights legislation, Worker Safety laws, Antitrust legislation, Clean Water laws, Food & Drug laws."1

Can you truly say you oppose these things? My point? Ideas exist in a balance, and discourse is necessary to achieve the appropriate balance.

1 http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/11/23_liberal.html

Darren_J · Jul 26, 2004

Your entitled to your opinion and beliefs, be it political, religious or what have you. That being said, I also have the right to do business with whomever I please, and there are people out there who will find your avatar offensive. What if I placed an avatar of the numerals 666? Or "Jews out of Palestine" or "Free Saddam"? They can all inflame. We share a common bond here at Fred's, that being VW Diesels. There's really no reason for political statements as such to be here at all.

TheLongshot · Jul 26, 2004

It seems to me that some people are forgetting about the old "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of Expression" things. If you don't like it and don't agree with it, ignore it.

Well, that kinda contradicts things, doesn't it? Greg is expressing his opinion in his avatar, and someone else is expressing his opinion (privately, I might add) to Greg. Nothing wrong with that.

All I said is that when you associate yourself with something that generates such heated emotions among people, you have to expect that there are those out there that will express it. If you don't mind it, go right ahead.

There is a reason why religion and politics are outlawed on most discussion lists. People can't seem to have such discussions without getting angry at some point.

Jason

mgrusin · Jul 26, 2004

On a different board, I recently read a plea for help from someone with a sig. that (to me) was personally stupid and offensive (it wasn't a political ad, those don't bother me at all). I knew the answer to his question, thought about it a bit, and decided to answer him, but added my POV on the subject of his sig. He thanked me for the help, then chastized me for my (to him) particularly stupid and offensive POV. The next time he had a question (same sig), I chose to ignore it.

If you (anyone) are asking for help or selling something, you increase you chances of making a connection by not alienating a portion of your readers. If that doesn't bother you (which is probably very healthy!), by all means go for it, that's what this country is all about.

-MG.

POWERSTROKE · Jul 26, 2004

...... and there are people out there who will find your avatar offensive.

How is a campaign sticker offensive? I bought a hat from somebody on the board last week and they sent a Kerry/Edwards flyer with my purchase. Did I want that? No.

What if I placed an avatar of the numerals 666? Or "Jews out of Palestine" or "Free Saddam"? They can all inflame.

Your previous statement and this are two totally separate things. C'mon, let's be realistic.

We share a common bond here at Fred's, that being VW Diesels. There's really no reason for political statements as such to be here at all.

Then there are no need for any avatars at all, unless it is diesel specific. Right?

Kiwi_ME · Jul 26, 2004

Greg, since you place an "ad" at the bottom of every post, and in the same post include a one-sided politcal avatar, you must understand it cannot help your business.

But, it's your choice.

dieselgus · Jul 26, 2004

Did you notice the complete lack of political enthusiasm on this board during the recent Canadian election????(Believe it or not.... we did have a Federal election in the past couple of months). As far as the whole politics thing.... who cares. Last time I checked, this was a TDI discussion board, not a realistic place to express which over priveledged member of society/business is going to get voted in for the next 4 years to have his/her crack at world domination.

Ugh

Gus

PS: Saw Farenheit 9/11 on Sat. night. Dammit, I'm proud to be a Canadian!

Dave_D · Jul 26, 2004

If you bought what Michael Moore is selling I suggest an antidote:

fahrenheit fact

DrStink · Jul 26, 2004

Did you notice the complete lack of political enthusiasm on this board during the recent Canadian election????(Believe it or not.... we did have a Federal election in the past couple of months).

Of course we noticed! Ken Dryden got elected to Parliment!

03_01_TDI · Jul 26, 2004

Army PFC Blodgett 21
Marine LCpl. Engel 21
Marine SSgt. Clark 29

Just a few of the 897 military members killed by the search for WMA in Iraq that have not been found. Another 5804 wonded in action.

I don't like Kerry either.

Back to Greg your a good vendor and from the few items I've purchased from you a good person. I'll continue my support and purchase items from you even though I won't be voting for the Bush.

MTjake · Jul 26, 2004

There are plenty of political discussion forums available on the internet. Feel free to make your comments heard there. I made the mistake of making a political post here on Fred's in response to someone who was attacking Canadians. I won't make that mistake again, but I'd suggest that we stick to the politics and religion of the TDI only here at Fred's as there is no political discussion forum offered.

Dave_D · Jul 26, 2004

Do I need to link the list of over 3,000 who died on 2001/09/11 for you, or can you find it yourself? The site I linked presents the facts of what Moore references in his product, thus the title of the page. I printed his site out once for someone without web access, it took over 70 pages!

delste · Jul 26, 2004

Greg, since you place an "ad" at the bottom of every post you must understand that the inclusion of a one-sided politcal avatar cannot help your business. But, it's your choice and it's your income.

Why would someones political persuasion keep people from buying from them. I happen to be a Bush supporter and the fact that Greg also is would probably elicit more business from me. But, I have done business with Greg in the past and have found him be honest and very helpful. I would continue to buy from him even if he suppored Kerry (god forbid

)

delste · Jul 26, 2004

Dammit, I'm proud to be a Canadian!

You should be. Just spent a week in Canmore, Alberta. Had a wonderful time and was impressed by the treatment we got from all the Canadians we met and did business with.

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