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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old February 26th, 2020, 14:41   #76
jesus_man
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I really wish there was some sort of positive indication that any of these newer diesels were doing a regen. Before I knew the cooling fan as being an indication, there were many, many times that I would arrive home from a 36 mile commute with the fan on. I too was concerned about that. But had I known it was in a regen process, I would have driven it more to let it finish. There has to be a wire somewhere that could be tapped into to illuminate an LED that would let you know a regen is in progress??

I own 2 other diesels that have a regen process and neither of them have an indication or a tell tale sign that I am aware of. I get the feeling it's just one of those things that if diesel manf. said "you must let the regen process finish once it's started", then people would avoid diesels. But it's fairly detrimental not to let it finish, especially several times in a row.
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Old February 26th, 2020, 17:19   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesus_man View Post
I really wish there was some sort of positive indication that any of these newer diesels were doing a regen.
https://kermatdi.com/i-852-polar-fis...d-display.html

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=505681
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Old February 26th, 2020, 23:05   #78
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Originally Posted by jesus_man View Post
I really wish there was some sort of positive indication that any of these newer diesels were doing a regen....

.... But it's fairly detrimental not to let it finish, especially several times in a row.
While Iíve heard this here before, that stopping while a regen is in process is bad, bad how? To what detriment? Iíve put more than 90k mi. on my JSW and have never worried about whether or not a regen is in process, other than basic curiosity. Iíve never let a regen influence my driving or when Iíve parked. When I changed the oil at 90k, the ash load was 78ml according to VCDS, so excessive DPF loading does not seem to be an issue. What other bad things are supposed to happen if you just drive the car without trying to actively manage the regens?
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Old February 27th, 2020, 05:26   #79
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While I’ve heard this here before, that stopping while a regen is in process is bad, bad how? To what detriment? I’ve put more than 90k mi. on my JSW and have never worried about whether or not a regen is in process, other than basic curiosity. I’ve never let a regen influence my driving or when I’ve parked. When I changed the oil at 90k, the ash load was 78ml according to VCDS, so excessive DPF loading does not seem to be an issue. What other bad things are supposed to happen if you just drive the car without trying to actively manage the regens?
I think the general idea is that it's bad to just shut off the engine and park it when the engine is producing Exhaust temps so high. It's the same reason why people recommend you idle for a minute before turning it off to let the turbo cool down. It can be bad for seals, lubrication of the turbo, etc. I'm not sure if any of these worries are founded, and people seem to be in the two camps: 1. I'm not gonna let my car tell me how to live my life and 2. I'm going to let it do its thing and hopefully minimize risk of that much heat sitting in the engine bay after shutting down.

There is a reason why the fans stay on for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone really knows if that's enough to mitigate damage to the turbo in the long run.
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Old February 27th, 2020, 07:41   #80
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No, you have to look at the function of the DPF. It is a filter...that requires periodic cleaning. And when that cleaning doesn't get completed, then build-up begins. Enough build-up causes issues.

Jellow - I read thru the wealth of info you provided and while I didn't realize there was such an animal as this Polar FIS, surely there is something far cheaper to notify me of a regen event in progress. If I knew more about how the process was performed, perhaps a quick look at a wiring diagram might reveal where certain circuits are powered during the regen process and tapping into one of those wires to power a simple LED mounted to the dash would be all the signal I need.

Another way to think of it is...$275 goes a long way towards getting rid of the filter all together.
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Old February 27th, 2020, 09:02   #81
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Originally Posted by ebain21 View Post
I think the general idea is that it's bad to just shut off the engine and park it when the engine is producing Exhaust temps so high. It's the same reason why people recommend you idle for a minute before turning it off to let the turbo cool down. It can be bad for seals, lubrication of the turbo, etc. I'm not sure if any of these worries are founded, and people seem to be in the two camps: 1. I'm not gonna let my car tell me how to live my life and 2. I'm going to let it do its thing and hopefully minimize risk of that much heat sitting in the engine bay after shutting down.

There is a reason why the fans stay on for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone really knows if that's enough to mitigate damage to the turbo in the long run.
Its proven a huge turbo seal life extender to idle after excessive EGTs. Will a the TDI w/ a hot DPF benefit with an idle? Does the DPF in regen @ idle condition heat or cool? Its possible idling could be harder on components? That why Im in-between the 2 camps you mentioned. I like input. Being "what ever will be will be" generally kills vehicles. Ive had several vehicles that ran like day one @ 250k, it wasn't by accident.

The cold area cracked DPFs suggest they were way too hot at shut off? The nation wide DPF shortage also speaks volumes on plugged systems.

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Originally Posted by jesus_man View Post
No, you have to look at the function of the DPF. It is a filter...that requires periodic cleaning. And when that cleaning doesn't get completed, then build-up begins. Enough build-up causes issues.

Jellow - I read thru the wealth of info you provided and while I didn't realize there was such an animal as this Polar FIS, surely there is something far cheaper to notify me of a regen event in progress. If I knew more about how the process was performed, perhaps a quick look at a wiring diagram might reveal where certain circuits are powered during the regen process and tapping into one of those wires to power a simple LED mounted to the dash would be all the signal I need.

Another way to think of it is...$275 goes a long way towards getting rid of the filter all together.
DPF function stated well. Although I went from of my 04 non DPF TDI to the DPF nonsense I don't regret it, just a glitch. Great all around vehicle.

That's a good idea to figure out a basic on/off DPF light, something that VW could have easily incorporated IMO. Keep the forum up on your progress if you pursue the light thing.

There is another option to monitor a few things. Its called a p3 gauge. Its a gauge that goes in the dash vent. Calimustang had one up for sale.

I am at risk of being titled anal about this but unfortunately I live in Comi-fornia and don't have the option to "improve" this post-dieselgate TDI with a emission improving delete.
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Old February 27th, 2020, 12:08   #82
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Funny... my wife has a 13' and my daughter has a 15'..both passats..anyway they NEVER worry about the regens...My wife is near deaf (hearing fans?..LOL)..well even if she wasn't she would not care about "protecting" the dpf.. they both rack up the mile..both over 120,000 miles..still have original dpf's !!.. NOW mine a 2011' jetta has only 70,000 miles and I always let it finish the regen. (monitor scan gauge II). and have had 3..yes 3 dpf's replaced since fix at 46,000 miles... go figure!! Maybe the Urea helps theirs??
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Old February 27th, 2020, 23:44   #83
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No, you have to look at the function of the DPF. It is a filter...that requires periodic cleaning. And when that cleaning doesn't get completed, then build-up begins. Enough build-up causes issues....
Certainly a reasonable sounding theory, but not appear to be happening with my car. With 90k+ miles (30k+ since the “fix”) my original DPF is showing only 78ml ash load via VCDS. At this rate, this original DPF should not be “full” before 200k miles. Are you saying that if I let the regen status influence my driving and parking habits, I should expect the DPF to last significantly longer? Does continuing to drive after reaching my destination to compete a regen cycle or letting my car idle to finish a cycle mean that my DPF shouldn’t reach max ash load for 250k-300k miles?

While I agree that the DPF requires regular cleaning (regeneration) to remove excess soot and leaving only ash, it appears that the only downside to interrupting a regen cycle (leaving some unburned soot) is that the next regen cycle may come sooner. But I don’t believe that even that happens, because my car completes any interrupted regen cycle the next time I drive the car.

So for me, it appears my car is managing the DPF well without my help. Given my personal experience, I would have to suggest that whatever is causing some DPFs to fill or fail at low mileage is probably something other than interrupted regen cycles.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 02:27   #84
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For me, it's mostly about the heat. I like to let the regens complete before parking my car. It also matters about my schedule. If I know I'll be making numerous short trips in the next day or two, e.g., on the weekends instead of weekday long commutes, it can be irritating to have regens restart and stop on multiple short trips. My car tends to run a bit oddly during regens and it also repeatedly gets things screaming hot.

I use the P3Cars vent gauge. It's true it's not inexpensive, but I think it looks great in the car and functions well. It also lets you see codes and clear codes on the fly if you don't have your VCDS at the ready.

My P3Cars vent gauge. It's reading coolant temperature in the photo.

on Flickr
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Old February 28th, 2020, 06:42   #85
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Certainly a reasonable sounding theory, but not appear to be happening with my car.
I'll agree that yours seems to be an anomaly. But I believe that certain conditions have to be met in order for a regen to start or resume. So my fear for myself is that having my fan on after a 36 mile commute very often means that those conditions were just met within the last few miles, so when the regen resumes, will it again be at mile 35 of my commute and be interrupted several times before it completes?

I don't know all the workings of the system, so I too am learning, but I have to assume just like an uncleaned BBQ grill, stuff builds up and gets harder to clean off if not done properly periodically.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 08:38   #86
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Certainly a reasonable sounding theory, but not appear to be happening with my car. With 90k+ miles (30k+ since the ďfixĒ) my original DPF is showing only 78ml ash load via VCDS. At this rate, this original DPF should not be ďfullĒ before 200k miles. Are you saying that if I let the regen status influence my driving and parking habits, I should expect the DPF to last significantly longer? Does continuing to drive after reaching my destination to compete a regen cycle or letting my car idle to finish a cycle mean that my DPF shouldnít reach max soot load for 250k-300k miles?

While I agree that the DPF requires regular cleaning (regeneration) to remove excess soot and leaving only ash, it appears that the only downside to interrupting a regen cycle (leaving some unburned soot) is that the next regen cycle may come sooner. But I donít believe that even that happens, because my car completes any interrupted regen cycle the next time I drive the car.

So for me, it appears my car is managing the DPF well without my help. Given my personal experience, I would have to suggest that whatever is causing some DPFs to fill or fail at low mileage is probably something other than interrupted regen cycles.

One should consider the health of the turbo which is extremely hot during the regens.



My advice is to drive until the regen is complete and the turbo/exhaust system is cool.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 12:36   #87
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I'll agree that yours seems to be an anomaly. But I believe that certain conditions have to be met in order for a regen to start or resume. So my fear for myself is that having my fan on after a 36 mile commute very often means that those conditions were just met within the last few miles, so when the regen resumes, will it again be at mile 35 of my commute and be interrupted several times before it completes?
I don't know all the workings of the system, so I too am learning, but I have to assume just like an uncleaned BBQ grill, stuff builds up and gets harder to clean off if not done properly periodically.
First, regens resume when the coolant temp hits about 150F (typically within a few minutes of the car restart) so I doubt that a single regen would span two 35 mile commutes. Have you ever observed that happening? Or is this just a “fear”?

The point of my posts was to find any empirical evidence to support the theory that has been put forward as truth in multiple threads here, that actively managing your regens will help make your DPF last longer. You stated that you believe that my observations about my car are an anomaly, but I haven’t seen anyone post that their DPF is measuring cleaner or went more miles before full due to their diligence in managing their regens.

The basic scientific process is to come up with a theory, then make real world observations to see if that theory is supported or not. I encourage anyone that has observed their mileage to ash load ratio and can state whether they have actively managed their regens to add more data to this thread.

So based on limited observation, I will go farther in suggesting that how fast one’s DPF fills with ash has no direct relationship to whether or not one actively manages their regens.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 12:59   #88
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One should consider the health of the turbo which is extremely hot during the regens.

My advice is to drive until the regen is complete and the turbo/exhaust system is cool.
I appreciate your opinion on this and it sounds right to me. But I have not seen anyone state that one should actively manage their regens to increase the lifespan of their turbo, until now.

The obvious next question is to see if managing oneís regens does actually extend the life of oneís turbo. To date, I have not heard that early turbo failure is a particular problem for the Gen6 TDIs compared to other TDIs. Given that, I donít know if we can state that any early turbo failures with our cars can be attributed, at least partially, to interrupted regens. But maybe so...

What Iím trying to figure out is whether or not there is any value returned for the investment of personal time and fuel in actively managing oneís regens.

That said, I have a P3 vent gauge, and I will often let the car idle before shutting the engine off until the EGT on the display is below 400F or 30 seconds, whichever come first. That habit is leftover from a turbo Mitsu that I owned in the 90ís.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 14:53   #89
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First, regens resume when the coolant temp hits about 150F (typically within a few minutes of the car restart) so I doubt that a single regen would span two 35 mile commutes. Have you ever observed that happening? Or is this just a ďfearĒ?.
Really, my car seems to run no different when performing a regen and I am usually pretty sensitive to subtle changes. It was just that my observation was that the cooling fans were on quite a lot upon returning home from my commute. Once I learned that was likely a result of a regen, I wondered why my car chose to perform a regen then, when, as you say, it would have had 30+ other miles to perform it.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 19:39   #90
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Really, my car seems to run no different when performing a regen and I am usually pretty sensitive to subtle changes. It was just that my observation was that the cooling fans were on quite a lot upon returning home from my commute. Once I learned that was likely a result of a regen, I wondered why my car chose to perform a regen then, when, as you say, it would have had 30+ other miles to perform it.
Well, your car has no idea how much longer that you plan on driving at any given moment, 30 minutes more or just 30 seconds. It only knows the current status of the DPF. While the car is running at or near operating temperature, if it senses that there is enough soot to justify a regen cycle, it starts the process, whether you are just pulling away from your house, or just getting home. If that regen cycle does not complete before you turn off the car, then it knows that it needs to complete the cycle the next time that the car gets near operating temperature.
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