Holy Crap!LOL! I love this however, there have been some Canadian failures lately so maybe it should reflect that no fuel is allowed in these vehicles, eh?Later!
Isn't this proof that VW is saying the Bosch HPFP isn't up to US specs?
NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation
- Thread starter dzcad90
- Start date
Isn't this proof that VW is saying the Bosch HPFP isn't up to US specs?
Tomato or tomatoe...same diff.
To me (and I know my opinion means crap to VW) they admitted with this label warning that their HPFP isn't up to US fuel spec's.
tditom
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Location
- Jackson, MI
- TDI
- formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
The label is fake. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
Harvieux
Vendor , w/Business number
Aw, come on! It was fun while it lasted.The label is fake. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
Later!
Jack Frost
Veteran Member
Yeah ... I could tell because it wasnt' printed in both theThe label is fake. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
Canadian official languages.
D'oh...The label is fake. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
I made the fake label using powerpoint and don't speak French. My sincere apologies if any members were fooled, that was not my intention. It was intended as commentary on the reported advice of some Canadian dealers and the idea that only 3/4 of fuel range should be used in order to prevent catastrophic failure.
chudzikb
Veteran Member
And it was well done!
darrelld
Veteran Member
Good illustration of the hysteria surrounding this problem.
OldGreaser
Veteran Member
da recall
Here is more info about the now for real recall. I just wonder if any member lost a car due to this leak. Anyone !?!?
I just received a return call from the Napa Calif. dealership and informed me, ALL of USA, TDI sales have been suspended until further notice. I could understand if this leak was dripping directly onto the turbo hot side, but a fire hazard, is not likely
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=5fabc93c-c81e-4101-8166-28d6d7a82d69
Here is more info about the now for real recall. I just wonder if any member lost a car due to this leak. Anyone !?!?
I just received a return call from the Napa Calif. dealership and informed me, ALL of USA, TDI sales have been suspended until further notice. I could understand if this leak was dripping directly onto the turbo hot side, but a fire hazard, is not likely
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=5fabc93c-c81e-4101-8166-28d6d7a82d69
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bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
It's also a high pressure injection injury risk - 26000 PSI diesel fuel right into the bloodstream.
highender
Veteran Member
Having worked as the a gasoline lab technician for EW Saybolt, INc, a long time ago,,, and taken many diesel, gasoline, asphalt and other chemical samples from ships, tank farms, and tested them, I have to say, almost all fuel companies have multiple use fuel lines and transfers fuel between their facilities and other facilities.
Our company is called in to certify the fuel for Shell, Union 76, Arco, Tosco, Pacific Refining, Valero, Chevron, etc.
I wish I had all the pictures of the bottom layer stuff at the tank farms, tanker ships, and bunkers...... . Lots of water, dark brown gunk, dirt like light brown gunk, free floatinig debris, mysterious white cloudy chemicals, benzene, toluene, alcohol, etc.....
Of course, the fuel , after transfer between the fuel companies, between tank farms, refininig and testing, are filtered and majority of it is certified.
However, again, all the fuel that you put in your tank, is different not only each day, but even at different levels of the tank in which your fuel is drawn, will give you a slightly different product, though not necessarily detrimental to your engine.
I have a 2002 TDI that has a rebuilt fuel pump to 11mm.
also a 2012 TDI with no problems so far..... sigh.
Those of you who think all fuel is the same, well,,, it is not ! Even the top tier fuel companies like Union 76, Shell, Chevron, etc..... buys fuel from other sources,,,mixes them...and does not filter or check for all the possible contaminants after the first batch is tested.
The main tests that are used to determine the price during inter or intra company transfers, are RVP pressure and octane in the case of gasoline ;, and in case of diesel, cetane and maybe cloud point. OF course, fuel companies sometimes ask for Gas Spectrochromotography , and other tests.
Our company is called in to certify the fuel for Shell, Union 76, Arco, Tosco, Pacific Refining, Valero, Chevron, etc.
I wish I had all the pictures of the bottom layer stuff at the tank farms, tanker ships, and bunkers......
. Lots of water, dark brown gunk, dirt like light brown gunk, free floatinig debris, mysterious white cloudy chemicals, benzene, toluene, alcohol, etc.....Of course, the fuel , after transfer between the fuel companies, between tank farms, refininig and testing, are filtered and majority of it is certified.
However, again, all the fuel that you put in your tank, is different not only each day, but even at different levels of the tank in which your fuel is drawn, will give you a slightly different product, though not necessarily detrimental to your engine.
I have a 2002 TDI that has a rebuilt fuel pump to 11mm.
also a 2012 TDI with no problems so far..... sigh.
Those of you who think all fuel is the same, well,,, it is not ! Even the top tier fuel companies like Union 76, Shell, Chevron, etc..... buys fuel from other sources,,,mixes them...and does not filter or check for all the possible contaminants after the first batch is tested.
The main tests that are used to determine the price during inter or intra company transfers, are RVP pressure and octane in the case of gasoline ;, and in case of diesel, cetane and maybe cloud point. OF course, fuel companies sometimes ask for Gas Spectrochromotography , and other tests.
HaHa, JSW still in the gargage. Want to have the key and the wagon in my possession first and off the VW property before I write any reviews, criticism and or report this failure. Who knows what kind of inteligence system they have....LOL..
Questions I want to know. If I hadn't had the extended warranty would they have covered it? Did I get a 3rd generation (newest, right) pump? Do I need an extension to an extended warranty (they have them, right)? Where's the parts?
Yes, will refill when at 1/4 tank from now on and preferably 76. If in Corona will google that biofuel diesel station.
Cool Dudes and Thanks.
Questions I want to know. If I hadn't had the extended warranty would they have covered it? Did I get a 3rd generation (newest, right) pump? Do I need an extension to an extended warranty (they have them, right)? Where's the parts?
Yes, will refill when at 1/4 tank from now on and preferably 76. If in Corona will google that biofuel diesel station.
Cool Dudes and Thanks.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
ONly way to know if you got the latest pump is to ask for the part number prior to installation.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Nope.
They all have the same part number, which is why we didn't know of the revisions until the NHTSA said it had been revised.
They all have the same part number, which is why we didn't know of the revisions until the NHTSA said it had been revised.
JSWTDI09
Top Post Dawg
Correct. Plus you guys are all making several assumptions that are (so far) unproven. You are assuming that you can tell the difference between old and new pumps and you are assuming that the new pumps are actually better. All we know for sure is that they have been changed. We do not know in what way they have been changed. Is it to make them more reliable, or is it to make them cheaper to build? We really have no proof. We all hope that they are better and more reliable, but only time will tell. There have been HPFP failures with new pumps, but they are new, so we have no long term data go judge them by. Design changes can be made for many reasons - reliability is only one of them. We also do not know how successful those design changes will be in the long haul. Keep your fingers crossed, guys.
Have Fun!
Don
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Fully agree with all your points Don, but the original questions was how he would tell if he got the lastest pump design.
STRANGETDI
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Location
- East Hampton, CT
- TDI
- 2013 Audi A3 S-Line Premium Plus Quattro - APR Stage II
My 2012 Golf is in the factory getting built right now. I wonder if all these issues (HPFP, Fuel line recall) will be rectified prior to my delivery. One can only hope.... When I get the car, I'll look for the HPFP part number and post it.
JSWTDI09
Top Post Dawg
Unfortunately, I do not think there is a way to tell, unless the manufacturing date is printed on the label (they all have the same part number). However, even if the manufacturing date is on the label, we really do not know the exact cut-over dates for the model changes. VW seems to prefer to keep us in the dark about these changes. Hopefully we will learn more as time goes on.
Have Fun!
Don
VW/Bosch makes/uses a fake HPFP... no if's ands or buts, with the way it fails and does so much damage to the whole fuel system. A real HPFP will do 300,000 miles or 25,000 hours like the rest of a TDI motor, without taking out the whole fuel system, as built by Bosch from 1978 to 2003 for the North American market. Anything less is inexcusable.
VW has lowered customers expectations now since the PD diesel came out with cams failing, then the passat with the failing chain driven oil pump, and now the CR fuel system. It just keeps getting worse and worse, how VW screws the public if you have one of these failures out of warranty. That and all their Technical Service Bulletins, that you have to drag out of them, tooth and nail. VW no longer meets my expectations for longevity and what a diesel is about... lots of miles and drive them into the ground in 400k miles.
And it is now apparent that Vw knew of the problem a long time ago, and that they worked with Delphi in 2009 on the problem, to the extent that Delphi announced publicly in May of 2010, that they had a replacement pump that overcame the failure issues common with a round bored shoe follower for the roller, instead press fitting in a rectangular version design of their own, which solved the rotation problem of the roller on the cam.
http://delphi.com/about/news/media/pressReleases/pr_2010_05_11_001/
Press Releases
Delphi's Multec® Diesel common Rail System Helps New Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion Achieve Record Low CO2 Emissions and Fuel consumption
Latest evolution of Delphi's solenoid injector and next generation Delphi pump help vehicle reach 87g/km of CO2 emissions, fuel consumption of 3,3l/100km (71mpg) without performance compromise
Cleanest car in its class; voted 2010 World Car of the Year by international automotive journalists
Release Date: May 11, 2010
PARIS — Delphi Corp. and Volkswagen have developed one of the "greenest" diesel systems ever produced with the new 3-cylinder VW Polo BlueMotion. This allows the automaker, a recognized leader in diesel-powered passenger cars, to offer consumers a vehicle with exceptionally low CO2 emissions and fuel consumption, while still delivering exceptionally refined powertrain performance.
After more than a year of co-development with Volkswagen, Delphi, a global leader in diesel engine management systems, is supplying its Multec® Diesel Common Rail System for the new 1.2-liter, 3-cylinder Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion.
"Our customers are downsizing their engines to meet stringent CO2 requirements. The new Volkswagen 3-cylinder Common Rail diesel engine allows Delphi to demonstrate the great potential of our solenoid-based fuel injection system technology," said Michael Gassen, general director, Delphi Powertrain Systems and Delphi Europe, Sales & Marketing. "This is Delphi's first diesel Common Rail program with Volkswagen and it is on a vehicle that is now the most economical five-seater with the lowest emissions and the 2010 World Car of the Year. This is an excellent match for our technology."
Delphi's Multec® Common Rail System supports downsizing concepts while maintaining competitive cost and performance criteria
DFP6 single plunger common rail fuel pump with injector.
Download high resolution version of image.
DFP6 single plunger common rail fuel pump with injector. (Shaded background)
Download high resolution version of image.
Delphi's Multec® Diesel Common Rail System, with a balanced valve fast servo-solenoid injector, was launched in 2000 and has evolved and improved to meet changing emissions standards and drive new powertrain strategies, while maintaining cost and performance competitiveness.
The common rail system on VW Polo BlueMotion includes the latest evolution of solenoid type diesel common rail injector technology with Delphi's next generation DFP6 fuel pump. This combination allows for just 87 g/km of CO2 emissions.
"Delphi's new common rail system provides significantly improved fuel delivery control, extended multiple injection capability, enhanced spray atomization and air mixing," said John Fuerst, general manager, Delphi Diesel Systems. "The system in this vehicle can deliver up to six injection events per combustion cycle, which translates into a very smooth combustion process and therefore lowers the NVH levels."
As well as optimized combustion, the injection efficiency of the system is improved through reduced parasitic losses, reduced component mass, improved energy consumption and hydraulic performance. Because of this, Delphi's common rail system will suit future generations of downsized engines in a range of vehicle classes.
Delphi's next generation high pressure pump unveiled at the Vienna Symposium
Delphi unveiled the new DFP6 single plunger common rail fuel pump during the 31st International Motor Symposium, 29-30 April, in Vienna. The pump is designed to simplify packaging and reduce weight while providing 2,000 bar maximum rail pressure. Its design combines a relatively small specific capacity of up to 0.42 cc/rev with the capability to run at engine speed to provide flexibility for efficient utilization on a range of engine sizes up to 2.2 liters. This is achieved by an approach that includes a new compact hydraulic head design which helps to improve the volumetric and mechanical efficiency enabling a potential reduction of engine CO2. The new concept is much stiffer than the previous generation head, with Delphi's integrated inlet valve assembled directly into the head and a forged high-pressure outlet, which incorporates the outlet valve and helps to achieve reduced stress and offers further room for extension to rail pressures higher than 2,000 bar.
"Through Delphi's design, the dead volume within the head is much less than other pump heads in the industry resulting in best in class volumetric efficiency well above 90 percent at very high pump speeds," said Fuerst. "In addition, unlike other pumps on the market, there is no high pressure leak path to the environment so there is no potential risk of high pressure leaks."
An additional advantage of Delphi's design involves the specific roller and shoe mechanism. The twin lobe cam offers two pumping events per revolution reducing the number of pump strokes needed. On later 4-cylinder engine applications, one further advantage will be the opportunity of running the pump at engine speed in combination with a twin cam lobe to generate pumping synchronized with injection. It is an effective means to achieve the lowest possible emissions at the highest performance level.
The roller cam shoe mechanism has been optimized for reduced torque, dynamic mass, and noise via the Delphi patented static shoe guide. The component is pressed straight into the housing so that the shoe guide, different from previous solutions, does not oscillate during pump operation keeping the dynamic mass low, permitting a small plunger return spring size and optimum packaging geometry. The design safely prevents the shoe on the DFP6 pump from lateral rotation which eliminates the risk of fatal pump damage and allows for a mass of just 2.4kg.
In addition to Delphi's Multec® Diesel Common Rail system, the new 1.2-litre three cylinder Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion is fitted with the following Delphi products: anti-theft and immobilizer systems, radiator and compressor.
About Delphi
Delphi is a leading global supplier of electronics and technologies for automotive, commercial vehicle and other market segments. Operating major technical centers, manufacturing sites and customer support facilities in 30 countries, Delphi delivers real-world innovations that make products smarter and safer as well as more powerful and efficient. Connect to innovation at www.delphi.com.
For more information contact:
Delphi
Lynn Kier
U.S.
lynn.kier@delphi.com
[1] 248.732.0615
Delphi
Malika Venezia
Europe
malika.venezia@delphi.com
+33 1 49 90 4888
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bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The pump used on our cars is hardly considered an HPFP, though, as far as diesel pumps go.
The PD pumps, now those could be considered high pressure. In fact, they're higher pressure than the current CR systems. They eat camshafts, but the pumps themselves are fine...
The PD pumps, now those could be considered high pressure. In fact, they're higher pressure than the current CR systems. They eat camshafts, but the pumps themselves are fine...
Ski in NC
Top Post Dawg
The injector lobes on pd cams don't eat up. It's the narrow valve lobes that eat. PD cam problems have nothing to do with injection pressures. Well, maybe the strange wear on the bearings...
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The PD cam problems are related to the compromises made to allow for the injectors to run off of the cam, though.
(That said, I wonder how the 16v PDs do.)
(That said, I wonder how the 16v PDs do.)
DPM
Top Post Dawg
again, I remind you that issues with CR pumps of all brands exist this side of the Pond too; although less so than ten years back.
ddorrer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2010
- Location
- WVa
- TDI
- 2015 GSW Tdi, 2012 JSW Tdi DSG (Sold w/80k miles), 2010 Sportwagen TDI 6spd (Traded)
Appt Made
Made my appt today for the recall work. Parts wont be in til 14th plus I havent received a letter yet from VW. All new TDis on the lot have to be fixed prior to sale so parts are limited right now. My appt is Oct. 19th/
Made my appt today for the recall work. Parts wont be in til 14th plus I havent received a letter yet from VW. All new TDis on the lot have to be fixed prior to sale so parts are limited right now. My appt is Oct. 19th/
jbright
Veteran Member
well let us know if they put in a Delphi or a Bosch replacement pump... get some pictures of it after it's out of the shop and back home.
Seems VW has known about this craptastic pump since 2009, when they started work together in conjunction with Delphi for a solution.
DEZLBOY
Veteran Member
Niner, is the problem referred to the wear of the PD cam shafts or the HPFP failures, or something else? And, in very simple technical language, how do you know that answer from the memo. And, more importantly, how does the memo indicate that VW was "covering up" a problem? I am not doubting you. I just don't know enuf to understand all the technical connections.
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