Could I really be thinking about a...KIA !

Never in a million years would (I) EVER belive I would consider ever owning a vehicle with a (foreign name plate). And before the flameing wars start, yes I know everything around me has some foreign parts in it...So take it easy, not the same thing.
Being Mr. Harley, Ford Diesel, Corvette, and a Teamster etc...bla, bla owning this foreign (what ever) just never seemed right in my book...................BUT!
I'll need a good comuter, about 140 miles a day and looking for MPG, something that will last, and well...won't cost a arm and a leg to purchase or keep on the road !
I considered (in a big way)a VW TDI deisel...50 + MPG, sometimes a +300,000 mile vehicle (I love diesels) BUT...several told me VW's are headach's period! Great Diesels but alot of aggravation! And when a VW service writer himself tells me buy something else (see his quote below)...well that and other comments plus info from JD Power and Consumer Reports etc closed the door on VW for me...sorry folks I gave it a shot, but won't take the chance
Then Ford Focus 4 door hatch back 5 speed came to mind. Heard some good things about them.
And now... I just came from a test drive on a KIA Spectra-5, 5 speed 4-banger. Damn, I liked it...I liked it alot, the looks the feel...everything...(even I can't belive it)!
Under 14K NEW w/10-100k warranty and some 35 mpg.
Tough descisions

Quotes from a VW service...(person)
"The electrical integration on the VW`s are way too complicated. The elctric window regulators and subroofs are still to this day a problem for VW. The TDI is a very reliable motor although service and chasing issues will cost you dearly. VW dealers are the only ones with corect software diagnostics as VW has never released anty patents on its software and there is no release forthe forseable future. The Jetta is a great looking vehicle but its service life is extremely short. I urge you strongly to look elsewhwere from any VW/Porsche unit. I personnally made alot of money from VW owners as there is no one else capable of truely fixing these but dealers. *There are not many VW owners amongst dealership personnel.* That right there says something. Good luck on your purchase.
And...
"Stay away from the VW unless you have the money to keep up with costly repairs."
And...
"The new Jettas are a takeoff of the Passat. I will still tell you not to get one. There are people with them that have never had problems (but) the bad far out weigh the good. But me knowing what I know about VW I say don`t buy one unless you plan to work for them."

Hammer,
I was like you about 18 months ago and had a tough time deciding between a Civic, Prius, Sentra and TDI. 30,000 miles later, I have no regrets about my VW purchase. The few minor problems I had were quickly repaired under warranty.

Just about everyone at my VW dealer drives VWs or Audis. It's one of the few places I know where the people who work there tend to know what they sell and like them too.

That said... If you want an appliance buy something else.

No way a KIA will outlast a VW, and that BS about only VW techs can service a VW made me fall out of my chair laughing. A monkey with a Bentley, access to TDIClub and time to spare could do the job properly. Enjoy your new KIA deathtrap.

as there is no one else capable of truely fixing these but dealers.

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Hahahahahhahahahahahha!!

Roflmao

He's shooting meth or something....lololol....hahahahahahahahahaha.




***tears up from laughing so hard***

that's too bad, sounds like you're a great candidate for a TDI. long commute, love diesels. as far as i know, all the bad raps are from some electrical problems some of the cars had in the 99-02 or so years. but most any used tdi you get will have had all it's problems long since fixed, especially if you picked one up from a tdiclub member. there still are some new 05 (last of the MKIV platform, not the new 05.5 new style) tdi's left out there. with a new vehicle i doubt you would have any problems whatsoever. i know a lot of people on here with 04-05 cars who haven't yet had a single problem...

ford focus? those things are cheap tin cans.. ewww...

sounds like the vw service man you talked to was completely clueless! nothing he said made any sense. as for diagnostic software, what about the vag-com that so many people here on tdiclub own and use all the time? i myself own one now. there are plenty of people around who would lend you one if you don't want to buy it for yourself.

Never in a million years would (I) EVER belive I would consider ever owning a vehicle with a (foreign name plate). And before the flameing wars start, yes I know everything around me has some foreign parts in it...So take it easy, not the same thing.

Being Mr. Harley, Ford Diesel, Corvette, and a Teamster etc...bla, bla owning this foreign (what ever) just never seemed right in my book.

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Is a Saab Swedish or American? Does it matter if the Saab in question was assembled in Trollhaettan, Ohio, or Japan? Is Jaguar American or British? Is Opel an American car is spite of having neither sales or nor manufacturing in the US?

To buy "American", should I buy a Pontiac GTO imported from Australia, a Pontiac Firebird built in Canada, Saab 9-2X built in Japan, a Honda Civic built in East Liberty Ohio, or a BMW X5 built in South Carolina?

In short, buy the Jetta. "Foreign v. Domestic" is moot, except in the history books. They're all transnationals now.

I also find the Spectra 5 to be a very attractive vehicle, good features, nice enough engine, great warranty and a fantastic price. One thing, though, safety. VWs have scored among the highest in their class for safety, and most, if not all VWs, come with side and cutain airbags. The Spectra received safety ratings so low that the last car to receive such ratings was in '01! Don't get me wrong, I love the car and KIA makes some safe vehicles too, but the crash reports on the spectra cause great concern. If this is an around town car, fine, but if you are planning to do heavy highway work, I'd steer clear of the Spectra.

Remember one more thing, many cars can get 35+ mpg, many many less can do it while having fun, and purely the fact that a club that has over thirty-thousand members concentrates on the TDI tells you that MANY people are having fun with the TDI. I have one of the "buggy" vehicles, and it gets to me sometimes(Glow plug issues), but I always get to where I'm going comfortably, quickly and safely.

cevans

i say get the car you're comfortable with. i personally don't like the cars in that class b/c i don't like the way they feel on the road. but it sounds like you do. you can use any oil, you can use reg unled and you won't have to worry about some of the diesel-only maintenance. none of that stuff bothers me.

i didn't know going in all the differences btwn diesels and gassers: i just bought blind. i found this site, and my eyes have been opened. it makes me care more for my car and how it runs and how i can keep it running great. i love the solid, tank-like feel of my passat wagon. it feels sturdy and well-made, and i know if i'm ever in a bad crash, i'm going to have a really good chance of walking away b/c of its build and safety features.

the vw guy you talked with may be right on some fronts, but who knows, he may also just be a bitter person. i think everyone here will relate to you some frustrating dealer experience. but they're also proactive people who have either always fiddled with cars, or they've spent the time learning about their diesel to minimize the necessity/cost of dealership service.

whatever you end up getting, i hope you enjoy it!

If you're looking Korean, check out the Hyundai Elantra GT. Kia is owned by Hyundai, so the Spectra is the same thing with different skin and a different badge on the grill. The Elantra GT comes with a hatchback (don't know if you were focused on the wagon cargo capacity) and looks to have a bit tighter suspension if you're into the fun driving category.

If you like the Kia, then buy it. I used to sell them. I quit my sales job because I hated Kia so much. The reliability on them was far worse than anything VW put out. They were cheaply made. They also had the worst resale value of any new car. I don't know how much they've changed in 3 years but I'll never own or drive one.

I'll need a good comuter, about 140 miles a day and looking for MPG... And when a VW service writer himself tells me buy something else (see his quote below)...well that and other comments plus info from JD Power and Consumer Reports etc closed the door on VW for me...sorry folks I gave it a shot, but won't take the chance

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Hmmm... taking advice from a VW service writer...

If VW dealerships could fix problems the first time, they would not have so many unhappy owners coming back over and over.

VW TDIs are great cars, but the VW dealership network sucks.

So accept his advice, but with this modest revision:
"Stay away from the VW _DEALERSHIPS_ unless you have the money to keep up with costly repairs."

Most of the problems with the current generation of VWs have been worked out. And others are specific to one of the gas-engine models.

I drive a little more than 200 miles a day, and have a coworker who does the same in his Suzuki Aerio. I get nearly 40 mpg, he gets about 28. Other coworkers drive Echos, Focuses, Saturns, and Hyundais. At the best they get a bit more than 30 mpg. I had a Chevy Aveo rental for a couple weeks, and got about 28 mpg.

With proper maintenance and help from the TDIClub, you should be able to get 300k-500k miles out of a TDI. Can you reasonably expect that from a Kia or Hyundai? And if you decide not to keep it that long, the resale value is surprisingly high. A TDI with 100k miles or even 150k miles is still worth more than half its original selling price, usually, and this is not true of many gasoline-engine cars no matter where they are built.

Get the VW and purchse an extended 100,000 mile warranty. You'll sleep better at night and when the warranty runs out, you'll have a car that easily has an additional 200,000 miles left in her.

I drive a little more than 200 miles a day, and have a coworker who does the same in his Suzuki Aerio. I get nearly 40 mpg, he gets about 28. Other coworkers drive Echos, Focuses, Saturns, and Hyundais. At the best they get a bit more than 30 mpg. I had a Chevy Aveo rental for a couple weeks, and got about 28 mpg.

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Are all of these cars automatics? Under 30mpg in an Echo is pretty poor; only 40mpg in a TDI is expected for an automatic, but pretty low for a manual.

To buy "American", should I buy a Pontiac GTO imported from Australia, a Pontiac Firebird built in Canada, Saab 9-2X built in Japan, a Honda Civic built in East Liberty Ohio, or a BMW X5 built in South Carolina?

In short, buy the Jetta. "Foreign v. Domestic" is moot, except in the history books. They're all transnationals now.

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I somewhat disagree. What I've noticed is that a great many companies go to low-cost labor markets and loose site of quality control. "Cost cutting" and "keeping up with the competitor" becomes a downward spiral.

I've seen this quite often in goods manufactured in China. I travel about 100% of the time for work. The pay washer/dryers in hotels will eat through chinese made clothes in about a month. Singapore, eastern europe, or Central America fair much better.

However, I do agree that buying the "best" car is what matters anymore.

Take GM they are "cost cutting" american and mexican workers and sending production and assembly to china. There are rumors of Volkswagen opening a plant in the US.

At the end of the day, Ford and GM are less likely to create new jobs than foriegn manufactures.

I drive a little more than 200 miles a day, and have a coworker who does the same in his Suzuki Aerio. I get nearly 40 mpg, he gets about 28. Other coworkers drive Echos, Focuses, Saturns, and Hyundais. At the best they get a bit more than 30 mpg. I had a Chevy Aveo rental for a couple weeks, and got about 28 mpg.

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Are all of these cars automatics? Under 30mpg in an Echo is pretty poor; only 40mpg in a TDI is expected for an automatic, but pretty low for a manual.

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These vehicles are all driven by couriers, in a mix of city and highway driving. The Aveo was an automatic, the others are all manuals. All real-world results.