ve start of injection timing

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
............................
throughout this very difficult to get timing below 255 value
when able to get to 190 value we have start
trying to retard timing further causes no start and enough smoke to kill all.....
So this is mb000 field 2 and it's supposed to read 12-75.
Your motor is not even close so something is amiss.
You have timed the 3 marks repeatedly, they must be good. You might check if you've miss-identified the mark on the flywheel, it happens. Or the IP timing has been disturbed, big center nut removed. Or something is just not reporting correctly. If it was spark ignition it would be like wrong #1 plug. To do that on the diesel you'd have to connect the fuel lines to the wrong injectors, unlikely.
 

maxmoo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Lakefield, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 golf, 2001 golf, 2000 beetle, 2003 wagon, 2004 golf, 2004 jetta, all diesels
all good
thanks for hanging in there guys.
recap.
replaced the ip

then replaced the filter ( which cleared up the air in the lines and hard prime)

replaced number 3 injector ,tried to dial in timing values multiple times

checked crank sensor (impedance and stall test)

verified voltage to injector 3

tech tip.vag com scan while pulling fuse 34 timing held at about 190(no change)

replaced injector 3 again.

throughout this very difficult to get timing below 255 value

when able to get to 190 value we have start

trying to retard timing further causes no start and enough smoke to kill all

Im wondering do i look further into wiring harness?
should i pull pump cover off and look for FOD?
or swap in another pump(i do have one running )?
maybe i can use my rosstech more than i am?

At the end of the day this car is in too good of shape and sound way to good
when its running to walk away
Wow....I empathize with your frustration!

Couple things come to mind...
Has the flywheel been previously changed....are the timing marks correct?
Could maybe verify by removing the glow plug or injector on #1 cyl and using a thin copper wire to find tdc.
I assume the cam timing is for sure correct?
Was the second pump a known good working unit or was it sitting on a shelf for a while?
Not alot left after all that besides wiring or ecm.
Maybe checking continuity of all wiring between the pump and ecm is the next step?
And if that checks out maybe try swapping in a known good imobilizer defeated ecm.
Good luck.
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Location
nova scotia
TDI
2000jetta, 2001 jetta doa ,2002jetta 2006 jetta wagon
Its a manual and i did the clutch about 3000 km ago .
Running great until injection code.
Pump was a good working one
Cam timing must be good, i ve checked/set so many times i would have interference.
Electrical will be next up on my next day off. wiring and then ecu
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Location
nova scotia
TDI
2000jetta, 2001 jetta doa ,2002jetta 2006 jetta wagon
Well thanks again for all the help
finally got to the bottom of it.
Voltage to pin 10 on the pump harness but
no voltage between pin 9 +10(should be 12)
Turned out to be the ecu
I have an ecu (same year same part number) and now have voltage.
Only problem is its a immo 3 (i dont have IMMO ID listed in extra field just letter/numbers)
So i guess it looks like i will need to get the sku?
Am i looking at getting a vag tacho and using the retrieved sku with my vcds?
on the bright side i have lots of spare injectors and pumps
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Eureka! Congrats for sticking with it!

You should be able to find someone to "pin" the new ECU to your car
with your retreived codes. My understanding is that this process is the easiest option.

I believe there's the option of deleting the "Immo" in the car cluster.
Or you can have the ECU "de-immobilised", but that involves usually
sending it off. I know Jeff of RC did mine while it was in the car.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Isn't it the case that one cannot get an SKU for an IMMO 3?
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Location
nova scotia
TDI
2000jetta, 2001 jetta doa ,2002jetta 2006 jetta wagon
Possible to swap in the full set of ecu,cluster ignition?
Would that allow vcds to do the rest?
would a malone immo delete get me there?
Try cleaning original motherboard?
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
cygnus,

If you have the instrument cluster that goes with the good ECU, that
might be the way to go. Swap that out.

Otherwise, if you can't find someone local who can rewrite the immo
code from the cluster to the good ECU, send it off to Malone for
an immo delete. Then you can use that in any car I believe.

Nearly there!

 

casey823

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Location
Middleton, ID USA
TDI
2002 Jetta sedan, 2002 golf tdi
What year? I'm pretty sure I have 2 ecm's both from 2002 Automatics, you would have to recode after sending to kerma or other tuner to have immo removed. Just an option if you have a need.
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Location
nova scotia
TDI
2000jetta, 2001 jetta doa ,2002jetta 2006 jetta wagon
well, we have a winner
swapped in ecu,cluster,lock cylinder with matching keys.
Fired right up.
Timing at 68
Never so glad to see lines on a graph.
Learned a ton on this one
Ill be pulling out the meter alot more in the future
really appreciate all the help
cheers
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Nice job on the troubleshooting.

Maybe edit your first post with the ultimate diagnosis and fix for the benefit of anyone who goes to the trouble of searching???
 
Top