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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:05   #16
belome
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Get the battery charged up good. If it isn't spinning fast enough it wont' start.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:39   #17
TheRachermobile
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They said it was a production number difference. Cars made in that year before April, and after April apparently. Also... the belt was the same length, and even had the same number of teeth, it had a slightly different shape- like more a rounded edge then square possibly?

Both are good enough for my car- one is rated for a different change interval... .which I told them mattered to me.. I dont want a 40K mile belt, I need a 100k belt.

We live in a small town, its not that I am too worried about them outright lying or trying to screw me... I do worry they just don't know what they are doing though.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:44   #18
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The battery is brand new... maybe 4 months old at most. But the repair shop is going there now with a battery charger and they are going to charge it up and see if they can get it to start. I don't know if thats a good or bad thing wish me luck.

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Get the battery charged up good. If it isn't spinning fast enough it wont' start.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:57   #19
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They do show a build date change on the timing belt on that year, but the old numbers are unavailable anymore and supercede to the later model. It all interchanges especially if you use the whole kit.

I don't know for certain, but I would guess that your shop is not fluent in TDI speak. You did pay them to do the job though, so they may have to learn.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 12:03   #20
TheRachermobile
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I tried to say that to them... but unfortunately it was after the fact. which was frustrating to say the least. Worst part was... I was leaving for a trip to CA a couple days later- and had to make it to the airport so needed my car.

I think they are doing some research on the issue now though.... after much 'harassment' by me. So my sentiment exactly... they may have to learn. They are working with me on it... I think. fingerscrossed
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Old February 17th, 2017, 13:08   #21
TheRachermobile
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The repair shop drove over to my house to try and get it started... He said that while one guy was trying to start it, the other noticed quite a bit of air in the fuel line over by the fuel filter...

He said it could be a seal or valve that went bad and is letting air in..?

Could that have been caused by or when they did the timing belt change? Is it just a coincidence that it happened literally the same time they did the work on the car?

They couldn't start it, so they are towing it to their shop... and as soon as I can get it running I will head down to Cedar Springs and have them check it out.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 14:44   #22
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Air can get in the filter if they removed it to do the job or even tweaked the hoses to move it out of the way. The thing is you seem to have run it enough for air to maybe not be a problem.

The obvious question to me is how they timed it. Did they lock the cam and pump and loosen the cam gear to install the belt?

Did they then use VCDS to verify the pump timing?

Or did they do some sort of mark and pray timing set up that was based on a presumed out of time pump?
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Old February 17th, 2017, 15:10   #23
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They need to start from scratch, check the bottom sprocket keyway, install the real timing belt, confirm TDC at the flywheel when the lock is in place to confirm lock is accurate.

They will start real hard if the timing drifts a few degrees. Air in the line should bleed out as it runs unless they boogered a seal or hose pulling it off to do the work.

Tell them not to burn up your starter.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 16:17   #24
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I call BS.

According to Gates the belts are essentially the same:

T321:

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ve...ming-belt-t321

T301:

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ve...ming-belt-t301

Everything is the same! Pitch is the same. Pitch length in inches is the same. Number of teeth is the same. Top width is the same. Only difference is that the T321 is "Highly Saturated Nitrile W/Jacket" Given this difference, and that the T301 is about 20% cheaper, I'd have to say that you've got an inferior belt now.

If I had to guess as to what happened it's that they tried forcing the belt on with the cam sprocket in place and messed that new belt up. Somewhere along the line they decided to become "professionals" and looked up how to actually do the TB- they then popped the cam sprocket.

Get ALL parts back. Then get your car to an actual knowledgeable TDI person!
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Old February 17th, 2017, 18:44   #25
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Belts are the same as far as fitment .....

My 2000 Jetta has always put air through the fuel hose to the IP ........ I quit long ago trying to find the reason. It has never, ever let me down due to any fuel issue, 360k miles on the odie...

Also, I do not believe the 2001 ALH engine has a Key-way issue at the crankshaft... never heard of it. The TDIs before the ALH did have a problem as I understand.

This problem is all about timing! Period!

Sadly, they may screw-up more things feeling around in the dark!

I'm sorry to say, your Battery is going to be junk by the time this is all over!
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Old February 19th, 2017, 16:17   #26
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If they didn't give you the belt you purchased I would go back and get it.
I wouldn't take no for an answer!

I also wouldn't ever take my car to someone who isn't on the trusted mechanics list.
I work on my own car unless there is a reason I can't!

I agree with the others above about them not taking the cam sprocket off.
Although it is doable, they put a different belt on which leads me to believe that the timing is out due to to large a belt.

I would go back and raise hell, make them give me the belt they didn't put on and have them do some other work to replace their time you paid for that you didn't get any benefit out of!
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Old February 19th, 2017, 19:53   #27
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Andy's right on the air. All Diesel fuel has air dissolved in it. When it goes through the tortuous path of the filter some comes out of solution.

Nonbelievers can refer to the air removal systems the guys run on their big trucks.
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Last edited by KLXD; February 19th, 2017 at 19:56.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 23:14   #28
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I agree, the two belts are identical in every way. I'm using a Gates 321 belt on a 2000 ALH that should in theory be using the 301 belt, BUT all the components are the matching 'long life' components. Same with the kit you bought.

Now, in the same fashion they installed the 301 belt, they could have also installed the 321 belt. Since, as we agree, the two are identical. Yes, they may have damaged the 321 belt from the kit trying to stretch it on without removing the cam sprocket. I would ask to have that belt back, see what they say.

I also agree that the hard starting may be a result of slight piston-valve contact OR it could be a result of poor injection timing. Just a hair either way on that sprocket makes a world of difference in starting.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 13:26   #29
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Shop said they found a valve at the fuel filter allowing air in the system, they replaced the filter and sealing ring at valve. Apparently the car starts and runs fine now. I have not been out to it yet, I will see when I get done at work. Is this common enough to feel confident this was the starting issue? Or should I be ever concerned and still make the drive to have the timing checked?
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Old February 20th, 2017, 13:55   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRachermobile View Post
Shop said they found a valve at the fuel filter allowing air in the system, they replaced the filter and sealing ring at valve. Apparently the car starts and runs fine now. I have not been out to it yet, I will see when I get done at work. Is this common enough to feel confident this was the starting issue? Or should I be ever concerned and still make the drive to have the timing checked?
Did you have starting issues before the TB change? If not then it's either related to "the event" or to something that the shop did.

Have them give you a graph of your timing: or at least data supporting it; I'd prefer the later because it should be from a log that will contain information identifying your car- VCDS does this, not sure if what they're using would, but it should.
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