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Golf TDI Picture Gallery Do you have a Golf TDI? If so write a message here describing it and insert a picture if you have one. If you don't have one on the computer, email me and I'll give you my address and I'll scan it for you. If you need web space for it, email me as well. Please make a short yet descriptive title for your vehicle.

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Old February 16th, 2017, 12:57   #31
FlexYJeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
Ok, so with a test light or volt meter in hand, unplug the gp harness. Use the battery as ground. Stick the positive probe inside one of the gp connectors, doesn't matter which one. Have a helper turn the key to where the dash lights come on. You should briefly see 12v. If you have a volt meter, set to it to ohms and check the top of each gp to the block. Should see about 1 ohm. Should all be very close.
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Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
If you have 12v on any plug, then relay is good. Power all comes from the same place. And if one gp is bad, and you have 12v there, it would trigger a MIL. So I suspect you won't find 12v at the GP harness. Or I should say if there is a problem in the gp circuit, I would be surprised if you did find 12v there.

awesome, im waiting on a friend right now to help me out with it. so if there is no power the problem would be the gp relay?
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Old February 16th, 2017, 18:03   #32
FlexYJeeper
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so no power to the harness i found out the relay is suppused to be under the whiper cover? i found a jetta TDI in the junk yard and tried to pull the glow plug relat and in the spot it was supposed to be under the whiper cover thing was just wire plugs. so i have no idea where the relay is supposed to be haha
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Old February 16th, 2017, 18:10   #33
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Glow plug relay moved from under the dash (near the headlight switch) to in the rain tray near the ECU in '02. I didn't see what year your car is but if it's an '01 or earlier the relay is under the dash. OE relays will be labeled 180.
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Old February 16th, 2017, 18:16   #34
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Iirc it is the one in the #10 position (out of 13 positions). I will look at the wiring diagram when I get home, but 5 lines is what I'm thinking.... So 5 pin
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Old February 16th, 2017, 18:21   #35
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Hi Flex,

I might be down in Anacortes area soon for a few days of R&R. I have a bunch of parts that I am not using like a fully functioning EGR system with flex pipe. Also, I have the pancake pipe to the intercooler, Intercooler, plug and play tuning box (lots of fun if you don't plan on getting a tune). I also have a bunch of left over things from my recent updates. I have a Vagcom cable as well if you need some help dialling things in. Also a GP relay if I recall.

I am not too sure of the actual dates for the trip yet, but it would be good to unload some of this stuff to a good home.
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Old February 16th, 2017, 20:21   #36
FlexYJeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Glow plug relay moved from under the dash (near the headlight switch) to in the rain tray near the ECU in '02. I didn't see what year your car is but if it's an '01 or earlier the relay is under the dash. OE relays will be labeled 180.
ahh. that makes sense. my car and the jetta were both 2000. that info helps so much, i'll go back tomorrow and pull that since the shops around here want $200 for the relay.

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Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
Iirc it is the one in the #10 position (out of 13 positions). I will look at the wiring diagram when I get home, but 5 lines is what I'm thinking.... So 5 pin
everything else ive seen has said 7 pins. hopefully i can just pull the one out of that jetta will fix the problem

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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
Hi Flex,

I might be down in Anacortes area soon for a few days of R&R. I have a bunch of parts that I am not using like a fully functioning EGR system with flex pipe. Also, I have the pancake pipe to the intercooler, Intercooler, plug and play tuning box (lots of fun if you don't plan on getting a tune). I also have a bunch of left over things from my recent updates. I have a Vagcom cable as well if you need some help dialling things in. Also a GP relay if I recall.

I am not too sure of the actual dates for the trip yet, but it would be good to unload some of this stuff to a good home.
that would be awesome man, id also love to meet someone from the page. we should grab a few brews
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Old February 16th, 2017, 22:43   #37
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I'm thinking the 7 pin is for a late model with the 4 wire GP harness. Yours should have a 2 wire GP harness.

The wiring diagram is a little more involved... it doesn't necessarily mean the GP relay is bad.

I assume you know how relays work, yes? ground and trigger for the solenoid, then line and load, and lastly a not-load (or rather opposite of load - so if the relay is NO, then pin 87a would be NC).

Check the fuses on top of the battery. Two of them relate to the GP relay according to the wiring diagram, but the one is just a pass through to the ignition switch. I don't even know why it goes to the GP relay, in the wiring diagram I'm looking at it does nothing at all. The other one, F163 is the one that feeds the glow plugs.

If that checks out, that's your line for the relay

Now, the ground and trigger. The ground is conditional from the ECU. It is the lilac/white wire on the relay. The blue is the trigger which comes from the voltage supply relay. So don't condemn the GP relay unless you verify that the blue wire and the lilac/white wire give you 12V when you expect the GP to be turned on.

Then the red/white wire(s) are your relay output to the glow plugs. So if everything looks good, check for 12v there - if you have it there, check the GP harness again. If you don't have it at the GP, then the wiring is bad somewhere between the relay and the harness. If you don't have 12V at the red/white on the relay, AND everything else looks good, THEN you can replace the relay.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 02:22   #38
IndigoBlueWagon
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As an aside, we have that relay for $42.95. Not pushing, just a suggestion that you shop at other than local parts stores for TDI products.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 23:28   #39
FlexYJeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
I'm thinking the 7 pin is for a late model with the 4 wire GP harness. Yours should have a 2 wire GP harness.

The wiring diagram is a little more involved... it doesn't necessarily mean the GP relay is bad.

I assume you know how relays work, yes? ground and trigger for the solenoid, then line and load, and lastly a not-load (or rather opposite of load - so if the relay is NO, then pin 87a would be NC).

Check the fuses on top of the battery. Two of them relate to the GP relay according to the wiring diagram, but the one is just a pass through to the ignition switch. I don't even know why it goes to the GP relay, in the wiring diagram I'm looking at it does nothing at all. The other one, F163 is the one that feeds the glow plugs.

If that checks out, that's your line for the relay

Now, the ground and trigger. The ground is conditional from the ECU. It is the lilac/white wire on the relay. The blue is the trigger which comes from the voltage supply relay. So don't condemn the GP relay unless you verify that the blue wire and the lilac/white wire give you 12V when you expect the GP to be turned on.

Then the red/white wire(s) are your relay output to the glow plugs. So if everything looks good, check for 12v there - if you have it there, check the GP harness again. If you don't have it at the GP, then the wiring is bad somewhere between the relay and the harness. If you don't have 12V at the red/white on the relay, AND everything else looks good, THEN you can replace the relay.
****, i literally understand none of that. i ran into a similar problem on my 6.9 IDI i i straight wired a momentary push button into the dash to manually control the glow plugs. im thinking thats what im going to do here. i hate jerry rigging things like that but i think in this case it will be the most reliable solution. i wont do anything permanent so one day i can go back to the oem set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
As an aside, we have that relay for $42.95. Not pushing, just a suggestion that you shop at other than local parts stores for TDI products.
for sure would not have bought that from ANY of the parts stores haha. im all about supporting local parts stores but that mark up is outrageous.












side note, didnt get much done today. my buddy was looking for a toy and im really good at finding deals. i found him an 99 A4 2.8L AWD 5spd for well under $100 everything works except it has a bad water pump. i also know where a S4 parts car is with thats only missing a wiring harness i think we can get for dirt cheap. we took my truck to go get it. 2 hrs each way. oh yea thats my truck the main reason i bought my TDI haha
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Old February 18th, 2017, 01:55   #40
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LOL FYJeeper - that's a pretty sweet price for a Bosch relay. Not sure how much the dealer charges, but it's like an $80-something part IIRC. And if that shocks you... you just got your buddy into an AUDI :faint: lol

IBW - you're absolutely correct; local part stores usually don't carry TDI parts and if they do the price is ridiculous. I always shop around; and for us Canadians we have a great resource that I've been using for many years now - but even still, sometimes I order american since it's just cheaper if I'm not in a rush.

Truck looks mean!!! Don't love the headlights though, but that's just me. I have a thing against any non-OEM headlight, their optics are literally garbage. Basically like a best guess at where the light might shine. OEMs like Hella, Stanley, Guide, Visteon, etc spend millions of dollars on equipment to optimize light output. TYC, DEPO, and whoever else makes aftermarket headlights does NONE of that.

As for your GP issue, don't direct wire it. You will prob get a check engine light (you will anyways it's pretty much a 'thing' with VWs) - but you don't wanna be the CAUSE of the check engine light, do you? It isn't THAT complicated. If you don't really get the prev post, then maybe we'll play the 'swaptronics' troubleshooting game.

Check all your fuses, in the fuse box and on top of the battery. Remove the knee panel in the car, then remove the metal behind it. Now you see your relay panel. Find the relay labelled 180. Put your finger on it, turn the key. Do the same for the relay labelled 109. Did you feel it click? If not, swap in a known good relay (ie. pay IBW $43). If it STILL doesn't work, then we can look for broken wiring or a bad ECU.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 13:28   #41
FlexYJeeper
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Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
LOL FYJeeper - that's a pretty sweet price for a Bosch relay. Not sure how much the dealer charges, but it's like an $80-something part IIRC. And if that shocks you... you just got your buddy into an AUDI :faint: lol

IBW - you're absolutely correct; local part stores usually don't carry TDI parts and if they do the price is ridiculous. I always shop around; and for us Canadians we have a great resource that I've been using for many years now - but even still, sometimes I order american since it's just cheaper if I'm not in a rush.

Truck looks mean!!! Don't love the headlights though, but that's just me. I have a thing against any non-OEM headlight, their optics are literally garbage. Basically like a best guess at where the light might shine. OEMs like Hella, Stanley, Guide, Visteon, etc spend millions of dollars on equipment to optimize light output. TYC, DEPO, and whoever else makes aftermarket headlights does NONE of that.

As for your GP issue, don't direct wire it. You will prob get a check engine light (you will anyways it's pretty much a 'thing' with VWs) - but you don't wanna be the CAUSE of the check engine light, do you? It isn't THAT complicated. If you don't really get the prev post, then maybe we'll play the 'swaptronics' troubleshooting game.

Check all your fuses, in the fuse box and on top of the battery. Remove the knee panel in the car, then remove the metal behind it. Now you see your relay panel. Find the relay labelled 180. Put your finger on it, turn the key. Do the same for the relay labelled 109. Did you feel it click? If not, swap in a known good relay (ie. pay IBW $43). If it STILL doesn't work, then we can look for broken wiring or a bad ECU.

i didnt see a fuse block on top of the battery. putting a finger on top of the relays is much more of my level of understanding electronics haha. i need to get on that, the past 2 days ive been starting it by clipping one side of my jumper cables to the harness and holding the other side on the battery for a few seconds

fun fact, im going to go look at a 2dr 5spd MKIV GTI tomorrow
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Old February 19th, 2017, 16:58   #42
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With temps rising, the glow plugs will not cycle very long, usually just a second or so. The ECU is looking at the coolant temp to determine whether or not to turn on the glow plugs. If you want to push the glow plugs to max, just unplug the CTS (coolant temp sensor) and the ECU will think it is very cold (-40F if I recall). Then you will have lots of glow. You will also get a CEL if you do this but at least you can get the glow plugs to help start the car.
Once the car is started, plug the CTS back in so the car will run normally as it warms up.

I noticed this yesterday when my car started after sitting for about 10 days. The glow plugs didn't come on because our outside temp was around 8C.

Sending the full battery current into your GP harness will probably result in some melting wires or relays.

There are several conditions surrounding cold starting issues that have been discussed here. How does the car start when it is warm/hot?

I ask because early MK4 TDI's around 1999/2000 had hot start issues that have been diagnosed and the ECU fuel map is to blame. What year is your car? I didn't notice the year in your posts.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 17:08   #43
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You need to look at your coolant temp sensor.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 20:44   #44
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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
With temps rising, the glow plugs will not cycle very long, usually just a second or so. The ECU is looking at the coolant temp to determine whether or not to turn on the glow plugs. If you want to push the glow plugs to max, just unplug the CTS (coolant temp sensor) and the ECU will think it is very cold (-40F if I recall). Then you will have lots of glow. You will also get a CEL if you do this but at least you can get the glow plugs to help start the car.
Once the car is started, plug the CTS back in so the car will run normally as it warms up.

I noticed this yesterday when my car started after sitting for about 10 days. The glow plugs didn't come on because our outside temp was around 8C.

Sending the full battery current into your GP harness will probably result in some melting wires or relays.

There are several conditions surrounding cold starting issues that have been discussed here. How does the car start when it is warm/hot?

I ask because early MK4 TDI's around 1999/2000 had hot start issues that have been diagnosed and the ECU fuel map is to blame. What year is your car? I didn't notice the year in your posts.

I'll look into this, when I checked the harness for power when my buddy turned the key there was no voltage, not even for a moment. When its hot the car starts great. After its been parked for 2-4 hours it has to turn over for awhile then it starts. Of I leave it over night it's not going to start unless I hook it up to my truck and spin the starter for a long while. When I jump the harness straight to the battery it fires right up
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Old February 19th, 2017, 22:58   #45
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i didnt see a fuse block on top of the battery. putting a finger on top of the relays is much more of my level of understanding electronics haha. i need to get on that, the past 2 days ive been starting it by clipping one side of my jumper cables to the harness and holding the other side on the battery for a few seconds

fun fact, im going to go look at a 2dr 5spd MKIV GTI tomorrow

pics of your battery?

should be a bridge-like thing over the battery under the cover (if yours is still intact and original). 6 or so wires come off the block and run down the back side of the battery. those are the wires that connect to the bottom of the relay block inside the car.

how was the GTI? you buy it?
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