www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI (Diesel) Emissions

TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old February 13th, 2017, 14:30   #106
rotarykid
Veteran Member
 
rotarykid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
Fuel Economy: 64 .1city @ 30-60 mph/ 52-53 @ 70-85 mph hyway ( 52 to just under 60 normal around town)on LSD
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Good point about the probability of CAFE standards being relaxed. It might have unintended negative consequences for TDI enthusiasts and the like :-(

While I would love to see a decrease to a more practical light duty diesel auto class emissions standards,........

I know from previous observations of what happened in 1985 the last time we did away with CAFE, I know for a fact that all diesel options went away in ONE model year!

If you look at history you will see every auto maker had diesel powered autos across the board in 1985 that were gone, even VW stopped selling diesels in 1987 Model year after CAFE rules went from 40mpg by 1990 in 1985 back to 25 mpg CAFE in 1987 Model year!

The only reason today we have even the small number of light duty diesels offered here is to meet the yearly increases in CAFE required to meet current goals that max out in 2025.....

If the US weakens even slightly those in law today CAFE yearly increase goals all of the currently offered diesels in light duty class, like the coming diesel options across the board in the half ton class pickups will disappear almost overnight again! Take that one to the bank.....
__________________
More diesels than I can list
rotarykid is offline  
Old February 13th, 2017, 14:53   #107
rotarykid
Veteran Member
 
rotarykid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
Fuel Economy: 64 .1city @ 30-60 mph/ 52-53 @ 70-85 mph hyway ( 52 to just under 60 normal around town)on LSD
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel View Post
I'm all for great MPG
but as far as I am concerned the CAFE (in the furure) has gone over board to the MAX
Satisfied even with the MPG on wife's 2015 Toyota RAV4 LIMITED
Gas (here in Okieville) is relatively cheap. And she only drives 'bout 500 miles per month.
So there

And there stated above is the real issue we will have again if we drop CAFE with real achievable goals like we have today,,,,,,.....

there is no technical reason we could have a fleet of vehicles today on our roads that easily gets 40-50mpgUS, we have had the tech to do this for over three decades now!

Too many people like you believe it is affordable to drive a ~10-15mpg vehicle as a daily driver!

Now you might be able to afford this as long as we stay at ~2 a gal, which we all know we will not for very long!

But as most that didn't seem to be able to do math found out the last time these gas guzzlers in no way is doable as a daily driver when we have 4 or higher a gal the next time.....

Now this seems to be a lessen that too many seem to have already forgotten,.....

Before you or anyone buys a new 10-18mpg real world gas guzzler that because of purchase price you will have to live with for years to come irregardless of the cost at the pump, do the math on whether you will be able to afford ~$150 or more a week for gas to get to & from work on a daily basis....

anyone who buys one of these things as your only way to get around really needs to add up what that fuel wasting monster will cost to run when(not if) we go back to 4+ a gal again!!!

If you cannot afford that cost when the price of fuel goes back up, and have no doubt that it will again go back to at least 4 a gal again, then you need to choose something else, something else that get better mpgs....


And when the price does go back up again to 4+ a gal if you did do this math will you be able to live with the cost of that....

And before anyone says it, you will not be able to just sell the gas guzzler to get your money back when this happens because the people who might have bought it will be in the same sinking boat you are in when the price goes back up again.....
__________________
More diesels than I can list
rotarykid is offline  
Old February 13th, 2017, 15:10   #108
gulfcoastguy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MS Gulfcoast
Default

Yes last time this cycle ran through I found Yukons, 4 door pickups, and even boats on the side of the road. Dealers wouldn't even consider them as trade ins. Plus loans have gone from 3 or 4 years to 5 or 6.
gulfcoastguy is online now  
Old February 13th, 2017, 17:41   #109
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid View Post
Too many people like you believe it is affordable to drive a ~10-15mpg vehicle as a daily driver!
Her Guzzler is getting 24 - 31 MPG ~~ for the record

Quote:
Now you might be able to afford this as long as we stay at ~$2 a gal, which we all know we will not for very long!
Okies (generally) pay at the bottom of national fuel rates - I've seen Tulsa at way more than a dollar cheaper

Quote:
But as most that didn't seem to be able to do math found out the last time these gas guzzlers in no way is doable as a daily driver when we have 4 or higher a gal the next time.....
She drives about 500 miles a month -- and the credit card is about $20 a month -- generally one fill up

So when gas in Okieville hits $6.00 per gallon her bill will be about $60 per month

and at (WHEN) Tulsa gas at $6.00 ~~ guessing poor other sates will be at $7 or $8 per gallon


Quote:
Before you or anyone buys a new 10-18mpg real world gas guzzler that because of purchase price you will have to live with for years to come irregardless of the cost at the pump, do the math on whether you will be able to afford ~$150 or more a week for gas to get to & from work on a daily basis....
... as I said at Tulsa $6.00 per gallon, her weekly fuel cost will be about $15 --



Quote:
If you cannot afford that cost when the price of fuel goes back up, and have no doubt that it will again go back to at least 4 a gal again, then you need to choose something else, something else that get better mpgs.... And when the price does go back up again to 4+ a gal if you did do this math will you be able to live with the cost of that....
24 - 31 MPG is fine with her ~~ as she just drive a very few miles

I have ask her to drive my TDI from time to time ~~ so as to get my car out of the garage ~~ mostly she will have none of it --
2015vwgolfdiesel is online now  
Old February 14th, 2017, 07:47   #110
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid View Post
Too many people like you believe it is affordable to drive a ~10-15mpg vehicle as a daily driver!

Before you or anyone buys a new 10-18mpg real world gas guzzler that because of purchase price you will have to live with for years to come irregardless of the cost at the pump, do the math on whether you will be able to afford ~$150 or more a week for gas to get to & from work on a daily basis....anyone who buys one of these things as your only way to get around really needs to add up what that fuel wasting monster will cost to run when(not if) we go back to 4+ a gal again!!!
It all depends on how many miles you drive.

Cases in point:

My wife drives a 2004 BMW that returns ~17MPG. She fell in love with the new BMW 330e PHEV but we can't make the "math" make sense because she only uses about $75 per month in fuel. I'd put her car in the category of "fuel wasting monster" however even if the price of fuel doubles - she's only paying $150 per month.

A few years back, I bought a nearly-mint condition 2002 Infiniti QX4. I thought I was being smart because I was able to pick up the car on the cheap. I loved everything about that SUV except it's 16MPG. I was into premium gas for ~$150 per week (about $8,000 per year). Suddenly, that SUV wasn't such a good deal after all. Essentially, I'd get a "free" JSW TDI for the price of 5 years of fuel. I sold the car a year later and bought the JSW.

Math suggested a BEV would make sense for me, but only if I could buy it cheap enough so that the (relative) absence of fuel & maintenance costs offset the price of the car. Used BEV's are incredibly affordable, and if you can make a car with an 80-100 mile range work for you - there isn't another modern (2014+) car that can beat it from a TCO standpoint. I figured the ICE-related fuel and maintenance for our 2004 Audi wagon to be about $25,000 over it's lifetime (we sold it a few months ago). Assuming my B250e remains reliable, and compared to the Audi, I believe it will eventually pay for itself in 6-8 years. Since last June, I've had 7000 miles using no gasoline. Yes there is a cost to electricity, however I only pay ~$0.08 (taxes & fees included), and have 9.2kW of solar generation that mitigates that to some extent.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.

Last edited by Oilerlord; February 14th, 2017 at 07:59.
Oilerlord is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 10:14   #111
donDavide
Veteran Member
 
donDavide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Severna Park, Maryland USA
Fuel Economy: 51/45/40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post
It all depends on how many miles you drive.

Cases in point:

My wife drives a 2004 BMW that returns ~17MPG. She fell in love with the new BMW 330e PHEV but we can't make the "math" make sense because she only uses about $75 per month in fuel. I'd put her car in the category of "fuel wasting monster" however even if the price of fuel doubles - she's only paying $150 per month.

A few years back, I bought a nearly-mint condition 2002 Infiniti QX4. I thought I was being smart because I was able to pick up the car on the cheap. I loved everything about that SUV except it's 16MPG. I was into premium gas for ~$150 per week (about $8,000 per year). Suddenly, that SUV wasn't such a good deal after all. Essentially, I'd get a "free" JSW TDI for the price of 5 years of fuel. I sold the car a year later and bought the JSW.

Math suggested a BEV would make sense for me, but only if I could buy it cheap enough so that the (relative) absence of fuel & maintenance costs offset the price of the car. Used BEV's are incredibly affordable, and if you can make a car with an 80-100 mile range work for you - there isn't another modern (2014+) car that can beat it from a TCO standpoint. I figured the ICE-related fuel and maintenance for our 2004 Audi wagon to be about $25,000 over it's lifetime (we sold it a few months ago). Assuming my B250e remains reliable, and compared to the Audi, I believe it will eventually pay for itself in 6-8 years. Since last June, I've had 7000 miles using no gasoline. Yes there is a cost to electricity, however I only pay ~$0.08 (taxes & fees included), and have 9.2kW of solar generation that mitigates that to some extent.
I had a 2001 QX4, I loved it, 16 mpg is about what I got, put it in AWD or 4WD and mileage dropped to 13 MPG. I did get as high as 23mpg one January (2006) when I had to drive to Wheeling, West Virginia to help a stranded friend.
__________________
1999 Golf TDi Variant Suspension TT bushings
2003 Jetta GLS TDi TTbushings
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD

Last edited by donDavide; February 14th, 2017 at 12:02.
donDavide is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 10:26   #112
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post


It all depends on how many miles you drive.


Cases in point:

My wife drives a 2004 BMW that returns ~17MPG. She fell in love with the new BMW 330e PHEV but we can't make the "math" make sense because she only uses about $75 per month in fuel. I'd put her car in the category of "fuel wasting monster" however even if the price of fuel doubles - she's only paying $150 per month.

A few years back, I bought a nearly-mint condition 2002 Infiniti QX4. I thought I was being smart because I was able to pick up the car on the cheap. I loved everything about that SUV except it's 16MPG. I was into premium gas for ~$150 per week (about $8,000 per year). Suddenly, that SUV wasn't such a good deal after all. Essentially, I'd get a "free" JSW TDI for the price of 5 years of fuel. I sold the car a year later and bought the JSW.

Math suggested a BEV would make sense for me, but only if I could buy it cheap enough so that the (relative) absence of fuel & maintenance costs offset the price of the car. Used BEV's are incredibly affordable, and if you can make a car with an 80-100 mile range work for you - there isn't another modern (2014+) car that can beat it from a TCO standpoint. I figured the ICE-related fuel and maintenance for our 2004 Audi wagon to be about $25,000 over it's lifetime (we sold it a few months ago). Assuming my B250e remains reliable, and compared to the Audi, I believe it will eventually pay for itself in 6-8 years. Since last June, I've had 7000 miles using no gasoline. Yes there is a cost to electricity, however I only pay ~$0.08 (taxes & fees included), and have 9.2kW of solar generation that mitigates that to some extent.
........ My wife drives her (GUZZLER) 2015 Toyota RAV4 LIMITED only a very few miles ~~ 'bout 500 miles per month

....... She has a soft foot, and get nice MPG

....... Mostly only fills up once a month
2015vwgolfdiesel is online now  
Old February 14th, 2017, 13:28   #113
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by donDavide View Post
I had a 2001 QX4, I loved it.
Me too. Mine was like a time capsule when I bought it. Looked and even smelled brand new:



As memory serves, I think it had about 10,000 miles on it when I bought it. Premium gas cost almost double back then. That certainly was a catalyst for me selling it. $2 gasoline may have made the decision not as easy to make. It was a fantastic vehicle.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.
Oilerlord is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 13:44   #114
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

I never understood why people bought those new when the Nissan dealer was selling the Pathfinder for so much less, even the tarted up trim level. At least those looked better than the vomit inducing SUVs Infiniti now has at their lot. Gosh, they just get uglier and uglier as time goes on.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 22:52   #115
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Default

I always wanted one of these, but to your point; these gussied up Pathfinders were pricey. When this one came along, in near mint condition, and at fraction of its original MSRP, I couldn't resist. You're right. The new stuff does look a little like puke.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.
Oilerlord is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 11:33   #116
donDavide
Veteran Member
 
donDavide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Severna Park, Maryland USA
Fuel Economy: 51/45/40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
I never understood why people bought those new when the Nissan dealer was selling the Pathfinder for so much less, even the tarted up trim level. At least those looked better than the vomit inducing SUVs Infiniti now has at their lot. Gosh, they just get uglier and uglier as time goes on.
I bought mine used in 2004 ( as I do with all of my cars), It had some features I liked that the pathfinder didn't have, for example, I like the dash trim and steering wheel better (wood grain). And yes the new stuff is ugly.
__________________
1999 Golf TDi Variant Suspension TT bushings
2003 Jetta GLS TDi TTbushings
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
donDavide is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 23:56   #117
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Default

Along with the upscale interior, the QX4 also had Xenon headlights, and a radar-based cruise control that modified speed when you came up on other vehicles. It wasn't exactly Tesla Autopilot but it was ahead of it's time and worked quite well. Back in 2002, I lusted for the QX4 but instead bought a 2001 Pathfinder because it cost less. Clearly the years made me forget about that VQ35's thirst for premium fuel when I picked up the used QX4 in 2011.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.
Oilerlord is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 11:20   #118
donDavide
Veteran Member
 
donDavide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Severna Park, Maryland USA
Fuel Economy: 51/45/40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post
Along with the upscale interior, the QX4 also had Xenon headlights, and a radar-based cruise control that modified speed when you came up on other vehicles. It wasn't exactly Tesla Autopilot but it was ahead of it's time and worked quite well. Back in 2002, I lusted for the QX4 but instead bought a 2001 Pathfinder because it cost less. Clearly the years made me forget about that VQ35's thirst for premium fuel when I picked up the used QX4 in 2011.
Mine ran fine on RUG, but my 1995 Pathfinder would need premium in the summer, go figure.
__________________
1999 Golf TDi Variant Suspension TT bushings
2003 Jetta GLS TDi TTbushings
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
donDavide is offline  
Old February 17th, 2017, 14:59   #119
tikal
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Southeast Texas
Fuel Economy: 37 MPG (~ 45% city)
Default

[deleted, wrong thread]

Last edited by tikal; February 18th, 2017 at 05:38. Reason: Wrong thread
tikal is offline  
Old February 18th, 2017, 09:07   #120
ssamalin
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern CA
Default This Is Your Air Without CARB

Quote:
Originally Posted by narongc73 View Post
That's what I figured when he started office. Maybe we'll see more diesel vehicles that everyone else in the world enjoys.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/w...T.nav=top-news

Sure hope we see CARB compliant diesels or our cities will be as polluted as London. I live in a smog ridden city. I treat kids and seniors suffocating in it. That's why regulations are necessary. They have saved the well being of millions. If you don't like CARB, guess you don't watch your kid trying to breath. Enjoy your smoggy cars with President Trump, just hope you don't have to take your grandkids to the ER to be intubated.

Last edited by ssamalin; February 18th, 2017 at 10:01.
ssamalin is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EPA mulls over urea-injection rules TDIMeister TDI (Diesel) Emissions 26 September 8th, 2006 21:50
Supreme Court Rules on EPA Air Quality Sun Baked GL TDI (Diesel) Emissions 16 March 4th, 2001 17:40
EPA rules! Janusz Fuels & Lubricants 2 February 28th, 2001 18:45
WSJ - New EPA Rules May Fuel Profits Sun Baked GL TDI (Diesel) Emissions 5 February 6th, 2001 00:45
EPA nominee would review Clinton diesel rules Eolair TDI (Diesel) Emissions 5 January 19th, 2001 14:12


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19098 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 144.47 Kb. compressed to 122.43 Kb. by saving 22.04 Kb. (15.25%)]