How much weight can I really tow with a TDI?

FlyTDI Guy

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PNW
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'01 Jetta GLS
Comparing a tractor/trailer setup to this is not exactly relevant. They are designed to stop from back>front. The majority of energy is in the load which is fully braked with a lot of tire/road contact surface area. Even so, jack-knifing can and does happen.

I'm going to assume this dolly has brakes of some kind. The OP's area requires them if towing over 3000 lbs. Electric=fragile, high upkeep, usually in some state of disrepair and generally fiddly. Surge=better but... The issue is, you're only braking one end of the haul (the wrong end) and indirectly at that. Inertia can and will un-dolly the vehicle in a worst case scenario. Most importantly, the ratio of vehicle to haul weight is not good.

While this haul may be possible, It would be foolish to harbor any illusions that it will be safe. JMHO...
 
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Geordi

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Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
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Comparing a tractor/trailer setup to this is not exactly relevant. They are designed to stop from back>front. The majority of energy is in the load which is fully braked with a lot of tire/road contact surface area. Even so, jack-knifing can and does happen.
Not exactly... Yes, the majority of the inertia would be within a large trailer, HOWEVER the trailer brakes are balanced against the brakes of the towing vehicle. It should be set up to stop as one continuous unit, not the trailer stopping the tractor. 70% of the stopping force has to come from the front anyway - thats physics. The weight loading from inertia transfers to the front wheels (or the wheels under the 5th-wheel hitch if you have one) and this is also why proper weight distribution is so critical. If (on a ball hitch) the ball weight is too heavy, the front wheels of the towing vehicle will be "light" on the road, and braking force is massively reduced. If there are no trailer brakes in that situation, then a jackknife is much more possible.

FYI: Anything towing anything else becomes a tractor-trailer setup by definition.

I'll agree that electric brakes do take a bit of calibration to get properly set up, however I disagree that they are "always in some state of disrepair" unless the owner is just negligent. Not having the gear in proper operating condition will make ANY tow unsafe, no argument there. I have electric brakes on a 7000 lb box trailer that I pull with my RV. Those brakes work fantastically, even on just 1 of the 2 axles. They are strong enough to make it seem that I am not stopping 19,000 lbs of vehicle, but just the normal 12,000 of the RV.

I had a tow dolly behind that same RV (many times, in fact) and once had to do an almost panic stop - the back wheels locked of the RV, b/c there was no trailer brakes on the dolly. None of the dollys I have ever used had brakes, which is a primary reason I won't use them again. The other reason involves the extra pivot point they create, which (when driving in a crosswind and rain) managed to get me BACKWARDS in the median at 45mph. No damage to anything, but that was a hell of a ride. I'd rather not do that ever again, and that actually was the very last time I've used a dolly.
 
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FlyTDI Guy

Top Post Dawg
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Nov 3, 2001
Location
PNW
TDI
'01 Jetta GLS
The reason I mention electric brakes is I was a parts mgr. for a clutch, brake and friction house for years. We used to get a lot of customers bringing us their electric brake parts for replacement or rebuild. Admittedly, a portion were marine applications and they suffer quickly in the salt water. Fact is, many folks only haul a few times a year and the rest of the time the trailer sits... usually outside. By the time they go to use it again, something can go awry. The elements and disuse take their toll and I've seen it many times. That is why I say a state of disrepair. In good condition, electrics are fine but somewhat eclipsed by surge brakes for this type of application.
 

CameraJack

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Oct 29, 2013
Location
Somerset
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mk4 PD130 Golf Estate
Eleven years ago I pulled a single axle trailer with a Ford Escort that had a 2.0 L gasoline. I had several transmission casings in the trailer which were tied down with binders. I took fairly flat state routes with a maximum speed of 55 MPH. I estimate the load at about 700 lbs. max. I only had about 60 miles to tow them, and what you know temp gauge after 40 miles shot up the wall. Seemed about like your video. Its funny when we are hard pressed to tow things what we feel can work.

Seven hundred pounds is about 300kg, I think? That's well within the unbraked manufacturer limit for my mk3 Golf estate. The braked limit is 1200kg, or over 2500lbs. Given that a Golf isn't that much bigger than a Ford Escort (or are they different in the states to Europe?) then I can see that being well within the limits of the car's design.
 

Nich

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Jul 17, 2009
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Pheonix, AZ
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5 spd 03 Jetta TDI
mk3 golfs are around 2800lbs and the escorts were 2500lbs
That being said it is hard to find a trailer that weighs less then 700 lbs. 700 for an aluminum flatbed is about as light as I have seen. Lightest utility trailer u-haul offers is 630 lbs just for the trailer. 1250 for something that can actually fit stuff. Add in 700 and your already at 1950 lbs.

Not to mention the escorts were crap cars and probably had an under designed cooling system
 
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Geordi

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Don't use uhaul trailers for weight comparisons... They overbuild their trailers by a factor of 2, because they don't know if the urchins that rent them will be hauling dirt, cement, or feathers in them. The tow Dolly's and car trailers are equally overbuilt, my dolly that I owned was about 500 lbs, theirs is about 850 and the car hauler is over 1500 at least. All steel and THICK.
 

jayoldschool

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Sep 17, 2013
Location
Ottawa
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00 Jetta
lol, very true on the Uhaul stuff. The refuse to rent car trailers for big stuff, so all my full size RWD GM buddies tell them they are towing Cavaliers. Of course, the trailer has no problem with a 4500lb Roadmaster station wagon.

That trailer that my pickup is on (pulled by the Caddy) weighs about 1500lbs, bare. It gets heavy, fast, with a load. The pickup is light by today's standards (3600lbs). That fat Cadillac tips about 4200lbs.
 
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Geordi

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Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
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I usually tell them that I am towing WITH a Chevy Suburban 3500, and pulling (if it is a car hauler) a 67 Beetle. Now, they are starting to ask for the plate number of the vehicle that is being towed when you pick the trailer up.

I think they might be catching on, but since they have no way to validate a number, they get a fake if they push the issue.
 

vanbcguy

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Feb 22, 2013
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Vancouver, BC
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'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
They ask about the plate for the towed vehicle when using a dolly because most jurisdictions require a towed vehicle that has any of its own wheels on the road to be registered and insured as applicable in that jurisdiction. Basically the tow dolly is only insured for the dolly itself, the towed vehicle is responsible for itself.
 

40native

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
It should be set up to stop as one continuous unit, not the trailer stopping the tractor. 70% of the stopping force has to come from the front anyway - thats physics. QUOTE]

Tractor-trailers are set up to brake on proportioning of each unit doing it's share. The 70% rule goes out the window when you start talking any kind of combination type vehicle. The 70% rule is based on the physics rule that the body 'roll' during braking applies the majority of weight the the front of the vehicle 'unit'. You don't have that so much with a combination vehicle. The biggest issue I see here is the DSG transmission and the clutch packs being taxed on start-ups because they are not designed for this type of service.
 

Geordi

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They ask about the plate for the towed vehicle when using a dolly because most jurisdictions require a towed vehicle that has any of its own wheels on the road to be registered and insured as applicable in that jurisdiction. Basically the tow dolly is only insured for the dolly itself, the towed vehicle is responsible for itself.
I don't rent the dollys anymore - the last trailer I rented was a car hauler to move an SUV that had been wrecked. They still wanted that vehicle's plate number. I think it is just a ploy to get more information, so if anything happens, they can deny the coverage on any technicality.

Their "insurance" isn't worth the paper it is printed on, the exclusions basically say the insurance ONLY covers Uhaul equipment only, anything in or on the equipment is on the owner. They also disclaim any liability to anyone else, and I suspect that they would find any possible excuse (improper loading could be hard to disprove if the trailer is strewn across the highway after a tire failure) to deny paying out to anyone.

Yes, I am a suspicious type, but their contracts are loaded with fine print to screw the customer from their beat-on equipment. You rent at your own risk. I try to avoid renting anymore, my trailers are in much better condition and cost me less in fuel.


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vwdieseling

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Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Location
Lima Ohio
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Beetle, more bugs
mk3 golfs are around 2800lbs and the escorts were 2500lbs
That being said it is hard to find a trailer that weighs less then 700 lbs. 700 for an aluminum flatbed is about as light as I have seen. Lightest utility trailer u-haul offers is 630 lbs just for the trailer. 1250 for something that can actually fit stuff. Add in 700 and your already at 1950 lbs.

Not to mention the escorts were crap cars and probably had an under designed cooling system

Yes, moreover. It had a Huskee hitch installed for the Ford Escort SE and wagon. I would rate a 1999 Ford Escort as strait junk. Ford had contracted with Mazda to manufacture the head for the 2.0 L. The valve seats had a tendency to fall out and Ford issued a service bulletin. The pieces of valve seat would either destroy the cylinder wall cooling jacket or punch a hole through a piston. Felpro sold an aftermarket valve seat kit to replace the faulty OE seats. These were purchased by machine shop operators who remanufactured the 2.0 head. Also due to Ford's design of the pressurized cooling system the systems usually always if not flushed filled with rust from the radiator. This lead to millions of plugged heater cores as well.
 

vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
I don't rent the dollys anymore - the last trailer I rented was a car hauler to move an SUV that had been wrecked. They still wanted that vehicle's plate number. I think it is just a ploy to get more information, so if anything happens, they can deny the coverage on any technicality.

Their "insurance" isn't worth the paper it is printed on, the exclusions basically say the insurance ONLY covers Uhaul equipment only, anything in or on the equipment is on the owner. They also disclaim any liability to anyone else, and I suspect that they would find any possible excuse (improper loading could be hard to disprove if the trailer is strewn across the highway after a tire failure) to deny paying out to anyone.

Yes, I am a suspicious type, but their contracts are loaded with fine print to screw the customer from their beat-on equipment. You rent at your own risk. I try to avoid renting anymore, my trailers are in much better condition and cost me less in fuel.


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I hear that....

I bought myself a trailer after renting one from them 3 separate times over about 14 months that had a bent wheel. You could see the thing trying to shake itself to pieces every time. Every time I returned it I reported it to them, they never fixed it.

Nothing like putting your cargo in a paint mixer for a few hours while you haul it home.

My trailer has new good quality tires, greased wheels and acts like it's directly attached to the car - you can't even tell it is there when it's empty.
 

Arturo

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Location
Redding CA
TDI
2014 Beetle Convertible TDI
Just Wondering.....

Why is the Golf rated for towing and the Beetle not rated for towing?:confused:
 
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