Question on when to check oil and oil consumption

How long should the engine be stopped before checking the oil? I normally check the oil in the morning so the car has set on level ground for about 12 hours without running. The manual says to check the oil a few minutes after the car has been stopped. Noticed there is big difference in reading with the engine shut off for 12 hours vs 10 minutes. After 12 hours the level is just to the top of the hash marks. After 10 minutes it is at the bottom of the hash marks where I'd normally start to 8oz and check again (the next day).

Also just used a qt of oil in 3700 miles. Is that about right? It doesn't sound bad to me. I add the oil 4-8 oz at a time to keep it topped off witout overflowing. Purchased the car with 60K. The oil was changed at dealership with Castro 5/40 for the first 60K. I changed myself to Delvac 1 at 65K. Drive about 125 miles a day(mostly highway) and run between 70 - 85 mgh just depending on how traffic is moving. No sign of any leaks.

Ken, the vehicle manufacturer is suggesting 5 minute rest period prior to checking.

manufacturer's procedure

1 quart in 3700 miles seems high. I drive my car a lot like you do, and have never added more than .5 quarts in 10,000 miles. If there are no leaks....how does it start? Smoke much?...

I'm in the check mode with the dealer right now myself. Since the wife started driving the TDI for her appraisal business the oil consumption has shot way up. We believe it might be due to to much idling while she is taking photos. I have to pull the intercooler to check how full it is. I'm at 2 1/2 quarts in 4K!!!

Jason

How long should the engine be stopped before checking the oil? (snip)

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I usually do "first thing in the morning, too" but - if I can't do that I wait at least an hour. But I don't know if there's any difference between 10-15 minutes and an hour.

Also just used a qt of oil in 3700 miles. Is that about right? (snip

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My oil consumption (in "grey-haired, broken down, old, cheap, retired guy who drives slow" mode) is less than half a quart in 10K. Dunno how that compares - or if it can.
Bruce Henderson, Wallace NC

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The good news is I've kept the oil level within specs even after letting the car set for 12 hours. Have never seen any blue smoke when starting, and the car runs smooth with very little black smoke. Run Amoco Premier w/ additive.

Bad news is I think there is a gasket leaking. Took the belly pan off noticed an oil leak (see pics). Didn't notice the gasket leak the first time I changed the oil. Not sure I looked that close. The belly pan did look about the same but after having an Oldsmodiesel (oil everywhere) I didn't think it was that bad. There has never been any oil on the garage floor.

leak

belly pan

My '98 Jetta (100,000 mi.) also uses about a half-quart in 10,000 miles. It used to use much more until I realized that it didn't want to be filled to the top of the hash marks. Now I keep it slightly (1/16" or so) above the bottom of the hash, and oil consumption is normal. Don't know for sure what it was doing with the oil when I was filling it to the top, but if I'd look inside my intercooler I bet I'd find out.......

wow I just went my first 10,000 miles and didn't loose hardly any oil... Not enough to need to add more. The car has 35,000 miles on it, and runs like a champ! --Scott

Found out today the leak is covered with the 2yr / 24K warranty. The TDI goes in to dealership next Tuesday to get the repaired.
Is there anything that I should be aware of, or check in to before/after the repair??? beyond checking the oil level & for leaks
Thanks, Ken

According to a TSB issued by VW regarding checking oil levels, the standard time period to wait before checking the oil level is 3 minutes after a hot shutdown. I don't have the TSB, but I've seen it posted in the forums.

I've found from experience that it doesn't matter if you wait 3 minutes, 5 minutes, or 10 minutes after a hot shutdown. But after waiting 1 hour or more, it does make a difference. I found that my level only changes slightly betwen checking it after a few minues vs. after a few hours.

So follow the owner's manual recommendation of checking it a few minutes (3-5) after shutting the engine down.

My '02 Golf TDI with 57k miles consumes less than 1/2 quart of Delvac 1 in 10k miles of hard & spirited highway driving. I keep mine in the "full" region just above the hash marks but below the upper bend on the dipstick. I'm careful to avoid overfilling and I NEVER have the level above the upper bend in the dipstick.

Since I keep mine in the "full" region all the time, I may see a smaller difference vs. waiting time than I may see if the level were down closer to the "add oil" region below the hash marks on the dipstick. The hash marks represent the "safe" region between "full" and "add" on the dipstick.

Since I do a lot of driving, I check my level about once a week. I watched it more closely during the first 5k miles when the engine was new and the oil consumption was slightly higher. I found my TDI consumed about 1/2 quart of oil during the first 3k miles and then it decreased to a negligible amount after that, down to 1/2 quart or less in 10k miles.


~ n1das

I don't have the TSB, but I've seen it posted in the forums.

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TSB>> manufacturer's procedure

I check oil level at every fillup.I put in my Power Service,swipe my card in the pump and start fueling.This takes a couple of minutes then I check the oil. With a little over 56000 on the car to date it doesn't use enough oil between changes to even notice.Car is super in that respect.

Hmm, does anyone else think that the TSB instructions to check oil level are flawed? The TSB gives direction to wait AT LEAST 3 mins after shutting off the hot engine before checking the oil level. Yet, a previous post is consistent with my findings that waiting an hour or more makes quite a difference in the oil level, and of course an hour meets the "at least 3 mins" criteria. Guess this really doesn't answer any questions ... it's just an observation.

With a little over 56000 on the car to date it doesn't use enough oil between changes to even notice.Car is super in that respect.

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yeah, homebrewer, that has been the observation of most other MkIV TDI owners...the oil consumption is negligible to non-existent.

I thought the difference between checking in 10 minutes vs. 12 hours was about 2/3 - 3/4 the distance between the hash marks. I was using the hash marks as the upper/lower limit instead of the bends. Should have read the manual a bit closer, which is pretty much the same as the TBN. Da..
Once again thanks for the responses. This is a great forum. Sounds like under normal circumstances I should be using less than a qt with-in 10K. I'm curious to find out how much the gasket leak has contributed to the oil usage.

The gasket leak probably does not contribute much. If your car leaked 1/2qt. in 5000 miles, the whole underside and back of your car would be soaked. A little oil leak can fool the owner into thinking that the car has a huge leak.

For checking the oil, just follow the TSB and be consistent. Actually, checking the oil on a TDI is really no different than any other car out there (except for a Porsche 911). Don't read too much into it. If you've been checking the oil on all of your previous cars to date (and haven't had a problem) then you obviously know how to check the oil level. What throws people, is that little warning on the oil cap. Guess what, that warning has been on VW/Audi vehicles since at least 1996. It is not exclusive to the TDI. VW/Audi does not want owners to overfill the oil level since it will affect the emissions and could set off a CEL. This probably wouldn't happen on a TDI but can happen on a gasser. The point is, the TDI is not something special when it comes to checking the oil and just be consistent when checking the oil level.

Don't sweat it Kenny Mack! Just drive it like the oil burner that it is....You must be an IT guy.. ha ha.

I check in the am. By the way, I have a 2012 Jetta with 230,000 and it has never used oil between changes [6-7k]. No drips on the floor either.

runakid said:

I check in the am. By the way, I have a 2012 Jetta with 230,000 and it has never used oil between changes [6-7k]. No drips on the floor either.

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You're wasting your time and money doing unnecessary oil changes.

n1das said:

I'm careful to avoid overfilling and I NEVER have the level above the upper bend in the dipstick.

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when I made my dipstick to eliminate the plastic tube I moved the end with the marks up by a half inch or so, and I still overfill it over and above that

doesn't make a lick of difference in oil consumption
It burned a little bit while breaking in the new rings, but now it doesn't even seem to be losing oil through the ccv, that or it's gaining fuel at the same rate as its losing oil.

point is, the crankshaft's a good couple inches above the oil level even in some real hard maneuvering

No kidding oil change interval is 10,000 and thats conservative. Some go 15-20,000 miles between oil changes. Much data shows early oil change do more damage than good.

I've got this curve about 2 miles from home I take at 65. When the low oil pressure warning beeps on that curve I add a quart when I get home.

mrGutWrench said:

I usually do "first thing in the morning, too" but - if I can't do that I wait at least an hour. But I don't know if there's any difference between 10-15 minutes and an hour.



My oil consumption (in "grey-haired, broken down, old, cheap, retired guy who drives slow" mode) is less than half a quart in 10K. Dunno how that compares - or if it can.
Bruce Henderson, Wallace NC

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So am I, and its gotten so that I seldom do an oil check ..19 years, 180K miles ..these modern cars are fantastic ..but far from perfect ..
And, speaking of which .. IMO, it matters little, just do it the same way, time and place, every time.. soon , this becomes tiresome.. What I do is change the oil once a year or so and measure the old oil.. the consumption is about half a quart in 4 to 5 K miles. Holds for VW, Saab, and Honda...and Mercedes..

KLXD said:

I've got this curve about 2 miles from home I take at 65. When the low oil pressure warning beeps on that curve I add a quart when I get home.

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Now thats how ya drive more and worry less.

GreenLantern_TDI said:

No kidding oil change interval is 10,000 and thats conservative. Some go 15-20,000 miles between oil changes. Much data shows early oil change do more damage than good.

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I am from the "past". '63 VW , oil change every 1,500 miles at a cost of $1.11
Early oil changes does more damage than good ?
BITOG ?

turbobrick240 said:

You're wasting your time and money doing unnecessary oil changes.

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Three years ?
230,0000 miles ?
How do you have time to do oil changes ?
Has the oil drain plug been worn out , yet ?

oldearthworm said:

I am from the "past". '63 VW , oil change every 1,500 miles at a cost of $1.11
Early oil changes does more damage than good ?
BITOG ?

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In 1963 dollars that would be about $8 today. At every 1.5k miles that would run $64 compared to an oil change interval of 10k for our TIDs. I believe that oil changes for me run somewhere around $35.

Regarding the comment about early oil changes doing more harm, best I could tell would be that it would be due to the fact that it increases the mucking-about with the car. Every time you throw a wrench at the car you risk messing something up.

BITOG

oldearthworm said:

Three years ?
230,0000 miles ?
How do you have time to do oil changes ?
Has the oil drain plug been worn out , yet ?

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That's why the big commercial diesels have ways of doing oil changes while continuing to operate!

If you change oil from top-side via pump you never have to touch the drain plug (a good example, though, of why reducing wrenching activities is a good thing- drain plugs always seem to get screwed up!).

I change my oil every 10-15k miles. Oil and engine technology has come a long way in the past 50 years. More frequent oil changes aren't really that harmful, but the ideal wear rates on these engines/oils occurs between 10-15k miles typically. Changing more often causes more wear(and a thinner wallet). Has to do with the detergents/additive packages in the synthetic oils.

Exactly. Detergents clean the engine for the first 1500-2000 miles ish and then the wear package takes over to keep the engine protected. So most wear takes place in that first 1500-2000 miles. So along those thoughts early changes means more wear. This is a very crude and short explainantion. Research oil and youll see for yourself. But it would be easy to just follow the manufacturers recommendations. 10,000 miles.

Runakid as many miles as your doing a year id be at 20,000 mile oil change interval. Most recommend an oil analysis to extend for the first time.