SamJammerTDi
Veteran Member
From what I am reading, the Don was driving a sedan, not an SUV, and that it is AWD not 4wd and that the primary power goes to the front unless the situation demands it.
New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.
- Thread starter dieselyeti
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IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Fine. My point is that drivers have been brainwashed by marketing and peer pressure to say that AWD is essential for low traction conditions, which Don also mentions. Not true except perhaps for circumstances that few, if any of us, encounter. My brother, who lives in Montana, drives a Honda Civic all with studded snows all winter. He says the only time he's gotten stuck is when the car has high-centered. Don's Passat would have the same problem, even with AWD.
I don't have any problem with folks wanting AWD, even though I don't. As was posted earlier, I just don't have to buy a car with it. But I do mind people implying that driving without it in some conditions is unsafe.
I don't have any problem with folks wanting AWD, even though I don't. As was posted earlier, I just don't have to buy a car with it. But I do mind people implying that driving without it in some conditions is unsafe.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
No wonder this thread is so long...
Ski in NC
Top Post Dawg
Folks with awd can get a false sense of security. With 2wd, when you feel traction break, you know to take extra caution. And all 2wd cars have 4 wheel brakes.
2WD is twice as good at stopping than going. AWD same stopping as going.
Might explain why you see so many awd and 4wd vehicles in the ditch or rear-ending.
2WD is twice as good at stopping than going. AWD same stopping as going.
Might explain why you see so many awd and 4wd vehicles in the ditch or rear-ending.
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
bulabula
Veteran Member
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- Millersville, MD
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- A5 Jetta; A4 Golf 2-door; Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel
This thread sounds worse than many threads I see in the political forums.
I heard the same kind of logic when I was debating on getting 4WD for my Dodge truck. You don't need it, yada yada yada. You should have seen the soldier at Ft Meade smile when I pulled his truck out of a snow covered parking lot..... and me smile when I I don't sit on the boat ramp spinning my rear tires and kicking rocks on my boat....
I love the stories about "my grandma the ex-USAC driver in Alaska doesn't need it so why does anyone else???"
Oh yeah, its W4's fault.... (not really....)
I heard the same kind of logic when I was debating on getting 4WD for my Dodge truck. You don't need it, yada yada yada. You should have seen the soldier at Ft Meade smile when I pulled his truck out of a snow covered parking lot..... and me smile when I I don't sit on the boat ramp spinning my rear tires and kicking rocks on my boat....
I love the stories about "my grandma the ex-USAC driver in Alaska doesn't need it so why does anyone else???"
Oh yeah, its W4's fault.... (not really....)
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
I owned an AWD vehicle (GMC Safari) for 200K miles. Wonderful car never got stuck, pulled my steep drive way in snow & w/ ice on much of it (going down was he exciting part). High centering was not a problem. But, I purchased it in spite of the AWD. It got about 3 to 4 MPG worse milage than its rear wheel drive predecessor.
I contract (snow) plow with my Ford truck. I find that I am able to effectively plow in 2 wheel drive most of the time unless the snow starts to get real deep or heavy. Much of that is due to the locking rear differential. I often follow the old adage about 4wd: Go as far as you can in 2WD, then put it in 4WD & back out.
Plow during a blizzard something. That will really demonstrate to you how clueless most AWD drive SUV owners are.
Now, a locking differential (AKA: The poor mans 4WD) is something that I sure wish was an option that was offered by VAG. The cost to install one after the fact is a bit steep for my current budget. I have driven many a mile on bad & snow covered roads with "posi-traction" and good snow tires & never had a problem.
I contract (snow) plow with my Ford truck. I find that I am able to effectively plow in 2 wheel drive most of the time unless the snow starts to get real deep or heavy. Much of that is due to the locking rear differential. I often follow the old adage about 4wd: Go as far as you can in 2WD, then put it in 4WD & back out.
Plow during a blizzard something. That will really demonstrate to you how clueless most AWD drive SUV owners are.
Now, a locking differential (AKA: The poor mans 4WD) is something that I sure wish was an option that was offered by VAG. The cost to install one after the fact is a bit steep for my current budget. I have driven many a mile on bad & snow covered roads with "posi-traction" and good snow tires & never had a problem.
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bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The thing is, a limited slip diff (I'm not aware of a locker for these cars) is an option that so few people (not buying a GTI or R, anyway) would buy, that it doesn't make sense for them to offer it.
There is the e-diff, which basically uses your brakes to simulate an LSD, but it just isn't the same, and burns through front brake pads, too.
There is the e-diff, which basically uses your brakes to simulate an LSD, but it just isn't the same, and burns through front brake pads, too.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Sad, but true.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
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- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Here's a good write up on the Passat. Writer seems to like it better than the camry. Also makes a good point about the camry having much better competition than it did five years back.
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2011/08/24/the-passat-is-hot-on-camrys-trail
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2011/08/24/the-passat-is-hot-on-camrys-trail
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
You mean we are back on topic maybe?
donDavide
Veteran Member
Oh, so the Passat not being offered with AWD/4Motion as they were in the past is not on topic ??????????? Win The Future
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abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Yes, but arguing the pros and cons of it ad nauseam is getting...nauseous.
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
I think the Passat has a comfier ride than the Golf, but the lack of rear vents annoys me. I tend to have fussy passengers and don't want to have a lot of noise in the front of the car because of their complaints over needing more air.
donDavide
Veteran Member
I don't think it needs rear vents
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Maybe oxford needs the cabby option with the plexiglass shield to keep the noise from the complaints down
Derrel H Green
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Needs . . .
He needs a lot more than that, and what he needs is not available here!
And besides, he won't be buying a Passat anyhow, as he supposedly just got a Golf.
D
He needs a lot more than that, and what he needs is not available here!
And besides, he won't be buying a Passat anyhow, as he supposedly just got a Golf.
D
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
Check the poll. Not everyone feels that way.I don't think it needs rear vents
For someone who claims to not read my posts, I find it novel that you comment on them more than perhaps anyone else in the forum.
He needs a lot more than that, and what he needs is not available here!
And besides, he won't be buying a Passat anyhow, as he supposedly just got a Golf.
D
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
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- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
There should be vents under the front seats to supply the back of the cabin. Even my rabbits had under the seat vents so there is plenty of air flow to the back. I know my Accord has big under the seat vents as does my Corolla. My 85 Jetta and 97 Passat has floor vents as well and has never had any trouble cooling or heating up the passengers in the back.
And all this whining about no all wheel drive, I agree with an earlier statement that was, in normal everyday street driving it is pretty useless as an option. And in the real world You are no safer because of many reasons.
1) all wheel drive cars, vehicles are heavier, on some models many times heavier so in adverse emergency conditions they are harder to control and take many times longer to stop. And they give a false sense of security to the idiots that blindly purchase it as an option so they usually drive too fast when it's wet, icy or snow covered. None of this is disputable...........
And we have all seen what that leads to, in the ditch or upside down from trying to avoid an obstacle in the road.
2) they are usually full time in a car with no option to disable them which can cost as much as 10 mpgs or more.
3) autos usually don't have locking centers on most autos which makes it less than useless on a slick surface.
4) the extra cost to no benefit ratio, many auto makers see this and it's a no brainier not to offer it as an option.
And the real biggie I have heard from a friend that works at VW cooperate, all wheel drives makes such a hit in fuel economy because to bother to sell all wheel drive here it has to be with an automatic trans. The combination of automatic, 4 cyl diesel power equals mpgs in the 10s city and low to mid 20s highway. So you have what the idiots that would want all wheel drive an underpowered lousy mpg and combine that with the slower takeoff speed times, why would VW even consider selling an auto all wheel drive in the US???????? All of that there really aren't any selling points to go to all the trouble of passing emissions on a diesel powered car with it.
I am no safer while driving an all wheel drive version of what I drive than I am today in my current version.
If you wish for an auto maker like VW to sell an all wheel drive diesel auto here the market is going to have to change to be much more acceptable to manual trans only option. All wheel drive with a manual trans makes the under powered nature of beast much easier to deal with. And it cuts the all wheel drive mpg penalty by 2/3s or more. Getting the thing into the high 20s city and making 40+ mpgUS something that is achievable. I don't see that happening anytime soon here in stupid automatic only land......................
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
In the teens highway and low to mid 20s highway? For an AWD 4-cylinder diesel car with an automatic?
No.
Just no.
Sure, if it's a Touareg, which is well over 5000 pounds.
If it's a Jetta, Golf, or Passat, absolutely not.
The Tiguan, which is a Golf-based 2.0L turbo vehicle (but gasser instead of diesel) goes from 20/25 with FWD DSG, to 19/25 with 4Motion DSG.
I don't think AWD is important, but that's a 1 mpg hit in the city, and NO hit on the highway. Golf-based, remember, so the same theory, albeit scaling slightly differently, applies to actual Golfs, to Jettas, and to Passats.
No.
Just no.
Sure, if it's a Touareg, which is well over 5000 pounds.
If it's a Jetta, Golf, or Passat, absolutely not.
The Tiguan, which is a Golf-based 2.0L turbo vehicle (but gasser instead of diesel) goes from 20/25 with FWD DSG, to 19/25 with 4Motion DSG.
I don't think AWD is important, but that's a 1 mpg hit in the city, and NO hit on the highway. Golf-based, remember, so the same theory, albeit scaling slightly differently, applies to actual Golfs, to Jettas, and to Passats.
Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
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- Location
- Murrieta, California
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- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Not True!
Get with the times my friend.
Many here will not agree with you on your points.
D
And all this whining about no all wheel drive, I agree with an earlier statement that was, in normal everyday street driving it is pretty useless as an option. And in the real world You are no safer because of many reasons.
1) All wheel drive cars, vehicles are heavier, on some models many times heavier so in adverse emergency conditions they are harder to control and take many times longer to stop. And they give a false sense of security to the idiots that blindly purchase it as an option so they usually drive too fast when it's wet, icy or snow covered. None of this is disputable...........
[Many times heavier?
And we have all seen what that leads to, in the ditch or upside down from trying to avoid an obstacle in the road.
2) they are usually full time in a car with no option to disable them which can cost as much as 10 mpgs or more.
[Again, NOT TRUE!]
3) Autos usually don't have locking centers on most autos which makes it less than useless on a slick surface.
4) The extra cost to no benefit ratio, many auto makers see this and it's a no brainier not to offer it as an option.
[Then why do so many offer that option?]
And the real biggie I have heard from a friend that works at VW cooperate, all wheel drives makes such a hit in fuel economy because to bother to sell all wheel drive here it has to be with an automatic trans. The combination of automatic, 4 cyl diesel power equals mpgs in the 10s city and low to mid 20s highway. So you have what the idiots that would want all wheel drive an underpowered lousy mpg and combine that with the slower takeoff speed times, why would VW even consider selling an auto all wheel drive in the US???????? All of that there really aren't any selling points to go to all the trouble of passing emissions on a diesel powered car with it.
[Again, NOT TRUE!]
I am no safer while driving an all wheel drive version of what I drive than I am today in my current version.
If you wish for an auto maker like VW to sell an all wheel drive diesel auto here the market is going to have to change to be much more acceptable to manual trans only option. All wheel drive with a manual trans makes the under powered nature of beast much easier to deal with. And it cuts the all wheel drive mpg penalty by 2/3s or more. Getting the thing into the high 20s city and making 40+ mpg US something that is achievable. I don't see that happening anytime soon here in stupid automatic only land......................
[Why can't you have all wheel drive with an automatic? GM does!]
Get with the times my friend.
Many here will not agree with you on your points.
D
Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Location
- Murrieta, California
- TDI
- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Novel Indeed
I do? Don't think so, but you are entitled to your opinion.
I do read everything posted including yours on a topic I find interesting.
Many have given up and do not bother to post on whatever you say.
I shall do likewise henceforth! Ramble on.
D
I do?
Don't think so, but you are entitled to your opinion.I do read everything posted including yours on a topic I find interesting.
Many have given up and do not bother to post on whatever you say.
I shall do likewise henceforth! Ramble on.
D
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
Quit trolling. It's hypocritical. I've said that before, and hopefully you will find it interesting this time.
donDavide
Veteran Member
I was being sarcastic.
donDavide
Veteran Member
@ rotorykid
I get 30 mpg Highway
I get 22-25 running around normal driving.
That is better than estimates for FWD 2.0T
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/22018.shtml
I get 30 mpg Highway
I get 22-25 running around normal driving.
That is better than estimates for FWD 2.0T
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/22018.shtml
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oxford_guy
Veteran Member
I just spoke with a good friend today and he said that with his kids and the long trips they take, not having rear vents is a deal-breaker.
Someone said they think there is ventilation from under the seats. Can anyone confirm this?
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
I have a friend in Idaho that has one of those all wheel drive Passats that hardly ever sees above 18-19 mpgs. And has clocked plenty of tanks as low as 14-15 mpgs on all city loops. And I have more than a few friends with Subi all wheel drive models that achieve similar in everyday driving. I have a doctor friend that has over 100k miles on one of these Passats and he keeps very good records. He claims that mid to high 10s are the normal range running around Denver. And low 20s mpgs at best on the highway.
I have a hard time believing you would ever be able to see anything close to 30 mpgs running around the west in any all wheel drive at the speeds we drive out here, 75-90 mph are not uncommon on interstates in the middle of no-where in Colorado and Utah.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Those are gassers, for starters.
And, FWD V6 and VR6 Passats are absolute gas hogs, too.
I'll note that compu_85's old Audi 5000 quattro, with a 2.3L naturally aspirated 5-cylinder, got 27 highway when VeeDubTDI was driving it, going 80 MPH through Massachusetts traffic (which meant lots of acceleration and deceleration), on the way back from the Ho5G New Year's GTG.
And, FWD V6 and VR6 Passats are absolute gas hogs, too.
I'll note that compu_85's old Audi 5000 quattro, with a 2.3L naturally aspirated 5-cylinder, got 27 highway when VeeDubTDI was driving it, going 80 MPH through Massachusetts traffic (which meant lots of acceleration and deceleration), on the way back from the Ho5G New Year's GTG.
donDavide
Veteran Member
Ask BulaBula, he was with me on a trip to Pasipany NJ when I was getting 30 mpg malaka. And we hit alot of traffic on I 95 and NJ turnpike Same for my trip to waterfest, Exit 7 or 8 was backed up and I was getting 31.5. ended trip with 29.7 and plenty of gas to spare and ened up with 27.5 on the tank. My Audi A6 4.2 would nomally get 16-18mpg around town . I took it to USGP @ Indy and would get a little over 24, with one stint in Ohio on the way home @27mpg. 75-90 is often done here (by others) quite often.
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donDavide
Veteran Member
My Quantum GL5 wagon w/auto would only get 20mpg. My Quantum GL TD would get 36mpg (5 speed) (both cars were looked them same). Point is the 5 cyl used alot of gas. I have had 3 gas Passats the have that mileage. Yes, are gassers, but the point that was made about losing upto 10 mpg is Bravo Sierra.