80,000 miles on timing belt?

I read the owner's manual and the timing belt change is recommended at 80,000 miles. Is this different from older models? If so, what did they change? I remember reading on this board the recommended interval is about 50k.

Yes, new belt design.

2002, Yippee! Longer waranty and longer belt life.

The 2002 warranty does not extend to 10years 100K miles on the Powertrain & Turbo, but covers you pretty well up to 50K miles on a overall basis. VW's one year warranty on adjustments seems bizairre. I wonder what they consider an adjustment to be ?

My NB TDI 5spd 2002 manual says 5 years/60,000 miles on the drive train, 4 years/50,000 on everything else but adjustments. Adjustments are things like wheel alignment and door squeaks I think.

Timing belt is part of drive train. Drive train warranty went from 10 yrs/100,000 mi to 5 yrs/50,000 mi. I am trying to fathom the "longer warranty" comment... Also, 80,000 miles puts you well outside the warranty period; believe I'll change mine a bit more often. Of course, I just blew up my engine a few weeks back - at 47,000 miles - with suggested timing belt problems. Probably would have been $3K/$4k to repair if it hadn't been under warranty....

Seems to me, the timing belt durability in an interference motor is not something you want to experiment with. Just mentioning it ....

Those who have had both belts in their hands (I have not) report that the "new" belt is physically and visibly different. DriveBi mentioned that the tensioner appears to be slightly changed (different/heavier internal spring if I recall?).
BUT as Boswell mentions above, if the belt does not make it to 80k mi. your on your own nickle (lots of 'em). The coincidence of the longer belt interval and the shorter powertrain warranty is just that? Right? Hmmm . Why is the interval the same for the automatic and manual trans. cars now? Has the 11mm pump been discontinued in the autos.? Has the difference in the two pumps stress placed on the belt been minimized in some other way? Was it never a signifigant difference in the first place? Or does VWoA now not give a flying fart about it since it's not their (warranty) problem anymore?

80k miles - that is the case

new tensioner superceeds all other TDI tensioners for the ALH engine, ie Auto and Manual ALH engines use the identical tensioner now.


This new belt if fantastic - seriously - it is worth it to make a trip to the local dealer just to hold it!

Hmm, picked up my 02 Jetta from the dealer a week ago Friday. I thought I read in the manual that the belt change was recommended at 40k now! Less that what it was previously.

I best be checking again tonight. No worry just yet, there is only 800 miles on it right now.

Tony B.
02 Jetta GLS

The discrepancies between the TB mileage changeouts make me think that VW did this as a running change in the 2002 models. So depending on WHEN your 2002 was built might just determine wheter you have the old style or the new style belt.

If I'm right, I wonder when the new belts began appearing in the TDI engine? And how to correlate that with the build date of the car in Mexico, Germany, or wherever the car was built. I recall that the engines are only built in Germany, so there may be some lag time between the engine build and when it is installed in a car.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by paschalini:
The discrepancies between the TB mileage changeouts make me think that VW did this as a running change in the 2002 models. So depending on WHEN your 2002 was built might just determine wheter you have the old style or the new style belt.

If I'm right, I wonder when the new belts began appearing in the TDI engine? And how to correlate that with the build date of the car in Mexico, Germany, or wherever the car was built. I recall that the engines are only built in Germany, so there may be some lag time between the engine build and when it is installed in a car.<hr></blockquote>

You're one year late: the change came in mid 2001 my. The way to know what kind of belt you have on my 2001 is not by date but by engine number. If the engine number is above ALH 500000, then you have the new design.

So if I have a 2001 w/ the new belt and tensioner, will mine last for 80K miles?

Would I be voiding my warranty if I attempted even though the parts are the same w/ the 02 models?
Any chance of a TSB coming our of VW explaining the change and that the 01's w/ the ALH 500000 engines can have the extended interval?

Any chance that VW will come out w/ a TSB that any of the older engines w/ the new belt/tensioner installed increase service interval to 80k?

Well, at least my enthusiasm for the longer belt life was'nt misplaced.

As I have asked on other threads, does anyone know if the new belt and tensioner has a different part # than the old one? I am having the belt replaced - or had it replaced - even as you read this. Any way to tell which was installed? Large bet that the tensioner wasn't replaced....

So can the new belt and tensioner be put on a 99 A4 or not? Does anyone know for certain? I don't really want to hear 750 theoretical responses from psuedo - or real engineers here, just is there anyone who knows this for a fact? Will the new belt cause problems, misfitting, or timing issues or anything?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Strack:
I wonder what they consider an adjustment to be ?<hr></blockquote>

Probably things like reprogramming the behavior of the alarm system (e.g. beep or no beep, flash lights or not, etc.).

So I got my car back and they installed both belt and tensioner - with the same part numbers as those above. Is that the new design? If so, I can answer my own question fairly pragmatically: yes, the belt and tensioner CAN be retrofitted with no immediate problem problem. Haven't had a chance to really run it yet but it seems to be purring like a kitten again.

The new warranty accomplishes two purposes:

1. People think it's "more" because all they see is the "3 years/50,000" in place of the "2 years/24,000." They don't think about the "powertrain" part of it.

2. It saves VW money because powertrain failures are FAR more expensive than silly little window switches, etc. They've basically given you an extra year of meaningless, feel-good "warranty" in exchange for 7 year/50,000 miles LESS warranty on the really expensive stuff.

That's why the marketing guys get paid the big bucks. The old warranty was much better, but that's not how the customers will see it...until something big goes haywire at 65,000!

The new warranty is also more in line with the way Americans buy cars. Few people keep them for anywhere near 10 years/100K. And since most people lease new cars these days, the new warranty is more in line with the most common lease terms.

In short: It's good for VW, and it SEEMS "good" to the average customer who doesn't plan to keep the car very long, or who doesn't really think about the long term.

-mickey

p.s. The timing belt is only under "warranty" for the recommended change interval of the belt, under the old warranty. Now, I would imagine the warranty on the timing belt expires along with the rest of the car's warranty. You'd better HOPE it lasts 80K because if it pops at 51K you're SCREWED! Yet another way VW wins in this scenario. Some "improvement."

Yyeeoouuch!

038 109 119 M for the belt
038 109 243 N for the tensionner
Don't worry: if you make the change at the dealership, there's no chance that they will put the new design on :-(
They stick to their parts catalogue and on it they see "if ALH<500000 then put the old design parts". As they don't want troubles, they won't take the initiative and I would do the same if I were them.

Does this new belt fit an A3 /B4 ?

Chris: please give your engine letters. AHU? Nope.
Boswell Bear: are you sure with the part numbers? Same letters (M and N)? If so, that's the new design. If you see these on the bill, I advise you remove the TB cover and look for the part # on the belt to make sure.

Yessir: M and N. I'll take the cover off this next week and double check but it does appear that when the dealer simply ordered "a timing belt and tensioner" - or whatever they did - they got the new ones. Note that my dealer was utterly unaware, as most of us no doubt were, that a "new" belt even existed; so I am certain they didn't fudge the numbers. Does anyone know what the numbers were for the old style belt?

In any case, if this IS the new belt, and as of now I've no reason to think otherwise, it in fact does fit on the 99.5 A4 - and thus everything in between I would think.

The older part were same numbers and D for the timing belt, G for the manual gearbox tensionner, H for the auto gearbox tensionner.
The topic had been widely discussed, and we had found no reason why the belt wouldn't fit. DBW has already installed a new one on an old model.
Strange that they got the new parts straightaway. This means that VW has realised there was no reason to prevent the older models from accessing it. Which in the end is the normal order of things

The timing belt looks completely different for the A3/B4s to the A4s.

Against the A3/B4 timing belt it says "z=137" and against the A4 timing belt it says "z=141". i assume that this is the number of teeth.

It looks as though VW have been playing silly buggers with the timing belts for a few years now.

Looking at the A3/B4 timing belt, I can see two part numbers for timing belts:-
028 109 119 M for AAZ, 1Z, AHU (turbo diesel and TDI 90)
028 109 119 P for AFN (TDI 110)

yet, when I check part numbers for crank pulley, cam pulley, tensioning roller, relay roller, pump pulley, intermediate shaft pulley, they all identical for 1Z or for AFN.
So why does the 110 AFN motor have a different belt to the 90 1Z when all the other stuff is the same?

My guess is that the 110 AFN pump is harder to turn over and so they fitted a stronger belt....

Now I go and check on Audi A4s, and bugger me, they all get the same belt, the same one as the 110 motor on the Golf/Passat.

Eh... looks like you've found your own little improvement for the passat 90 engine. But the question is: how stronger is this one?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Now I go and check on Audi A4s, and bugger me, they all get the same belt, the same one as the 110 motor on the Golf/Passat.
<hr></blockquote>

I'm not too clear about this, but I think it was a mistake: the mk4 golf belt isn't the same as the passat, is it? Indeed, I think the golf is 038 and the passat is 028

I meant that the Audi A4 with 1Z engine (90) actually gets an AFN (110) belt as standard, from the factory.

The Audi A4 actually has the older engine with the seperate drive for the water pump, same as Golf A3 or Passat B4. Therefore the new 80,000 mile belt for the AA4 Golf and Jetta/Bora will not fit it.

Anyone with an A3 Jetta/Golf, or a B4 Passat, read this, if you haven't already.

Anyone have any ideas as to way my owner's manual says to replace the timing belt for the automatic at both 60,000mi and 80,000mi but never mentions the manual? I have 2001 Golf 5-speed and want to do the reccomended service - I just don't know what it is.

What was the change for the timing belt for a golf tdi 2000 model/year?