Gen 1 & 2 fix + compensation

Tone72885 · Mar 26, 2017

Does anyone know what the plan is or what will happen with the Gen 1 and 2 vehicles if no fix is approved? What happens to the so called compensation? Will the owners still get the compensation or do we have to sell our cars back to see any money? I have a 2013 Passat and she has a 2014 JSW. We both really love our cars and don't want to let them go, but have been wondering what will happen if no fix is released. Thanks

GoFaster · Mar 26, 2017

If there is no approved fix by (if I remember right) May 2018 then the option of getting a fix plus compensation is obviously off the table. You will be able to select a buyback, you will be given another opportunity to "opt out" and file an independent lawsuit, and unless you live in one of 5 specific states, you will still have the option of doing nothing, getting nothing, and driving on as if nothing had ever happened.

The combination of "unfixed car still on the road" + "owner receiving compensation money" does not exist, has never existed, and will not exist.

pebjr · Mar 26, 2017

I have a 2009 tdi and my plans if there is not a fix will be to get a dpf delete and keep on driving. I live in a state that they don't check diesel emissions.

DanB36 · Mar 27, 2017

GoFaster said:
The combination of "unfixed car still on the road" + "owner receiving compensation money" does not exist, has never existed, and will not exist.

...except in the delusional minds of way too many reading this forum, apparently.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Some say that if there is no fix that we can opt out of the settlement rather than selling our VW back, we can just keep driving it as if nothing happened. I hope this is true because that is my plan, but after reading the settlement again, I am not sure.

"States that accept money through the EPA/CARB settlement cannot refuse to register your vehicle as a result of the emissions problems at issue in this case. If any state does not accept money through the EPA/CARB settlement, it will not be bound by these settlements, but it is anticipated that Class Members will be allowed to drive their cars legally through the course of the Class Settlement Program, while they await their Buyback or Approved Emissions Modification".

It says through the course of the Class Settlement Program, which ends next spring. It says nothing about after that time.

Also from the question and answer session with Elizabeth Cabraser who is the lead counsel for the Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee on all Dieselgate-related litigation and she did not commit to the fact that the states have to register our vehicles if there is no fix and we elect to keep our vehicles. She said "We don’t believe that states who are included in the governmental settlements with VW (and most are) will refuse to re-register these cars".

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Also I am only talking about registering our vehicles after the end of the Class Settlement Program, not emissions testing. I live in a state where they don't test diesel automobiles so I am lucky I don't have to deal with emissions testings.

DanB36 · Mar 27, 2017

Mark_J said:
Some say that if there is no fix that we can opt out of the settlement rather than selling our VW back, we can just keep driving it as if nothing happened.

You can do that whether or not you opt out; opting out has no effect on your ability to continue to register and drive the car. Opting out has only two effects: (1) you won't get any money under the settlement, and (2) you can pursue your own action against VW if you choose.

MonsterTDI09 · Mar 27, 2017

Mark_J said:
Also I am only talking about registering our vehicles after the end of the Class Settlement Program, not emissions testing. I live in a state where they don't test diesel automobiles so I am lucky I don't have to deal with emissions testings.[/QUOTE

States that accept money through the EPA/CARB settlement cannot refuse to register your vehicle as a result of the emissions problems at issue in this case.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

I could be all wet here but if you read the settlement this is what it says, "Class Members will be allowed to drive their cars legally through the course of the Class Settlement Program, while they await their Buyback or Approved Emissions Modification". Through the end of the settlement program. It says nothing about after. That is why I brought this up and I would love to find this myself. I talked to our DOL and they told me they are obligated to register our vehicles until the end of the settlement date, but they were not sure if they were after. But who knows if the person on the phone knew what they are talking about.

GoFaster · Mar 27, 2017

^ The above is at issue only in the 5 states that did not accept $.

"States that accept money through the EPA/CARB settlement cannot refuse to register your vehicle as a result of the emissions problems at issue in this case." Period full stop. This situation applies in the 45 states that took $. This statement is open ended in terms of timeframe.

"If any state does not accept money through the EPA/CARB settlement, it will not be bound by these settlements, but it is anticipated that Class Members will be allowed to drive their cars legally through the course of the Class Settlement Program, while they await their Buyback or Approved Emissions Modification." This sentence only applies to the 5 states that did not take VW's $.

One sentence (45 states) or the other (5 states) applies - not both.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

I see your point and thanks. I didn't read it this way but what you say makes sense. Hey I'm an old man, old & slow. Again thanks for the clarification and hope I didn't frustrate you all too much.

Armby · Mar 27, 2017

If you want to see it in black in white in the agreement, see See Appendix D to the DOJ Partial Consent Decree. http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelib...ent-Decree.pdf. In section 4.2.9 of Appendix D it states that

"...the certifying Entity:
(a) Shall not deny registration to any Subject Vehicle based solely on:
i. The presence of a defeat device or AECD covered by the resolution of claims in the Consent Decree; or
ii. Emissions resulting from such a defeat device or AECD; or
iii. The availability of an Approved Emissions Modification or the Buyback, Lease Termination, and Owner/Lessee Payment Program."

The "certifying Entity" is any state that accepts money from the Environmental Mitigation Trust Agreement. I.e. any one of the 45 states discussed in this thread.

Tone72885 · Mar 27, 2017

Thanks for all the info everyone! I was just curious what people know and what has been heard. She really wants to keep her JSW and I really don't want to sell back my passat because it hurts my head to see the pictures of the crushed TDIs out there.

Forgive my ignorance on this, but what are the odds of an actual fix coming out for the Gen 1 and 2? Some deadlines have came and gone? My understanding the Gen 1 (her 2014 JSW) will be harder to modify being that it doesn't have DEF or SCR. Gen 2 (my 2013 Passat) might be easier since it does have a DEF system?

Mark J, I see you live in WA, why would there be an issue with registering the car in WA. Aren't diesels exempt from emission testing in WA?

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Was talking about registering them, not emission testing them and no diesel vehicles do not need testing. Also I live in an area where we don't have to emission test anything, gas or diesel.. Here is what it says about diesel emission testing in Washington.

These diesel vehicles no longer require an emission test:
All diesel powered passenger vehicles weighing less than 6,001 pounds.

All diesel vehicles model year 2007 and newer, regardless of weight.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Good afternoon Tone72885, what area in Washington are you? My home is N of Spokane but I work in northern Whatcom county up close to the Canadian border.

Tone72885 · Mar 27, 2017

Hi Mark, Im Anthony. I live just outside of Seattle (Maple Valley). I did look into the registering TDI vehicles, but I don't think most people at DOL would know the difference unless they created a do not register list using VIN specific numbers. But who knows until the time actually comes.

nayr · Mar 27, 2017

They still pass emissions as they are; if there is no fix they will still pass emissions just as they are.. and still be registered everywhere just as they were the day you bought em.

The only way you could be REQUIRED to get a fix is if you live in a state that checks your VIN for outstanding emissions related recalls before issuing your registration.. AND VW comes out with a fix AND it gets issued as a recall notice.. Then your state could require you to get the fix to continue receiving registration.. If VW dont come out with a fix; there is no recall on your emissions equipment and you'll be fine, your state will happily take your taxes and issue you registration off its current standards.

The only state I am aware of that does this is California; there may be more but Ive not heard of it.. Lots of cars get emissions recalls and there was one before dieselgate even came out for the TDI's that caught up Cali folks.. Its outstanding on my vehicle and has been for several years, no problems at all registering it.. most of the country these recalls are completely voluntary.

No state testing place caught the 'cheat', nor can now.. and the cheat was not designed to outwit state compliance checks; just the EPA's.. I know here when they put you on rollers and hookup to the car the certified tester pretty much nails it and dont follow any strict guidelines on driving conditions.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Hi Anthony I really don't think we have any thing to worry about. If there is no fix I will just drive it.

GoFaster · Mar 27, 2017

Tone72885 said:
Forgive my ignorance on this, but what are the odds of an actual fix coming out for the Gen 1 and 2? Some deadlines have came and gone? My understanding the Gen 1 (her 2014 JSW) will be harder to modify being that it doesn't have DEF or SCR. Gen 2 (my 2013 Passat) might be easier since it does have a DEF system?

If one goes by the anticipated schedule then the Gen 1 fix should have been submitted by 27 Jan 2017 (two months ago) and EPA/CARB had 45 days to approve - we are assuming these are business days, and that works out to late this week or early next week.

But the "drop-dead" deadline is not until May 2018.

Mark_J · Mar 27, 2017

Hi Anthony, besides calling the Wash. DOL I has also emailed them and here is their response. Looks like this is a non issue for us in Washington if there is no fix and we just keep driving the VW's. Good to know.

Mark,

You may continue to register and drive your 2013 Passat TDI, as you have in the past here in Washington state. The settlement and repairs to your vehicle are between you and VW. If you require further assistance, please don’t hesitate to telephone me. 509.435.5495

Best Regards,
Mattias

Mattias Brischle
Dept.of Ecology, Eastern Regional Office
Mobile sources emissions Unit
Air Quality Program
509-329-3467, 509-435-5495
mbri461@ecy.wa.gov

Armby · Mar 27, 2017

nayr said:
The only way you could be REQUIRED to get a fix is if you live in a state that checks your VIN for outstanding emissions related recalls before issuing your registration.. AND VW comes out with a fix AND it gets issued as a recall notice.. Then your state could require you to get the fix to continue receiving registration.. If VW dont come out with a fix; there is no recall on your emissions equipment and you'll be fine, your state will happily take your taxes and issue you registration off its current standards.

This situation is different from other recalls. The 45 states (including California) have committed to NOT deny registrations regardless of whether there is a fix or not. When they took the money associated with the Mitigation Trust Agreement they agreed to allow registration even for owners that do not do the fix, even if there is one approved

Galo · Mar 31, 2017

There is a leeeeetle something that might make things interesting if there is no fix for the non-Adblue cars if the owner of the car says 'Eff u, VW....I'm just keeping it': for eeeevery car left on the road that way, VW will need to fork over $35k in fines per car (could be $37k, memory fails me) to the EPA.

Me? I'm betting that as we get closer to May 2018 without a fix, the leverage of us who applied for 'fix and keep' will do nothing but climb....

turbobrick240 · Mar 31, 2017

Galo said:
There is a leeeeetle something that might make things interesting if there is no fix for the non-Adblue cars if the owner of the car says 'Eff u, VW....I'm just keeping it': for eeeevery car left on the road that way, VW will need to fork over $35k in fines per car (could be $37k, memory fails me) to the EPA.

Me? I'm betting that as we get closer to May 2018 without a fix, the leverage of us who applied for 'fix and keep' will do nothing but climb....

First of all, those in the know say a fix for the gen 1 cars will soon be announced. Secondly, the fines are only on cars outside the 85% bought back, fixed, or rendered un-roadworthy. Lastly, the settlement terms are not going to be changed midstream.

S2000_guy · Apr 1, 2017

And the fine, on the number of cars that VW falls short of 85%, is much less than
$35k.

tvmaster · Apr 5, 2017

turbobrick240 said:
First of all, those in the know say a fix for the gen 1 cars will soon be announced. Secondly, the fines are only on cars outside the 85% bought back, fixed, or rendered un-roadworthy. Lastly, the settlement terms are not going to be changed midstream.

Sold our 2010 JSW back to VW today. The VWOA rep who checked the car in said she thought VW would do all it could to re-sell the cars and put them back on the road, due to "demand". She seemed confused about the years and models. I thought the settlement clearly stated a 'bought-back' car HAD to be destroyed.
Confused, but glad to be free of the ongoing uncertainty, both politically and mechanically, and glad to not have to deal with our local VW dealer anymore.

DanB36 · Apr 5, 2017

tvmaster said:
I thought the settlement clearly stated a 'bought-back' car HAD to be destroyed.

You thought incorrectly; VW can resell the cars, but they must fix them first.

tvmaster · Apr 5, 2017

DanB36 said:
You thought incorrectly; VW can resell the cars, but they must fix them first.

even the older, gen 1 and 2's? It's been 18 months, and still no word on those fixes. Any day now people are saying. If VW had extended the DPF/EGR warranties to 120m I probably would have kept the car. But at 80k, and looking at replacing a THIRD DPF at $3k per repair, it was just too rich for my blood to hold on. Ironically, the next owner of my car will likely get a warranty on the DPF. Glad to be rid of VW for now

DanB36 · Apr 5, 2017

Yes, even the Gen1/2. Of course, there has to be a fix first, which there isn't yet. Probably easier for Gen1/2 than Gen3 anyway--the fix (if there is one) will be done in one stage, and there are no remaining new cars to try to sell.

MollyC82 · Apr 7, 2017

Settlement Chat

I was able to chat with someone in the settlement portal. They told me that a proposal has been submitted by Volkswagen on January 27, 2017. They said that we just have to wait for EPA and CARB now. I asked if there is a chance that there will not be a fix and she said that she does not think that they would offer a fix if it weren't possible.

Marc_TDI · Apr 13, 2017

tvmaster said:
even the older, gen 1 and 2's? It's been 18 months, and still no word on those fixes. Any day now people are saying. If VW had extended the DPF/EGR warranties to 120m I probably would have kept the car. But at 80k, and looking at replacing a THIRD DPF at $3k per repair, it was just too rich for my blood to hold on. Ironically, the next owner of my car will likely get a warranty on the DPF. Glad to be rid of VW for now

Your replacing a 3rd DPF on a 2010 Gen 1 or even a Gen 2? what's the mileage on it?

Gen 1 & 2 fix + compensation

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