Clean Diesel DPF Data Collection Thread

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
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Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
VAGCOM / MFD accuracy

My oil ash volume has remained constant for the last 3,000 miles. I'm glad it's not increasing, but I guarantee when it does, it will jump to 65 or 70 ml. Has anyone noticed odd or rounded figures (readings) from the MFD or from VAGCOM? I've checked my oil ash volume several times and it is still at 60 ml. It hasn't increased. Not 61, 62, 63, nothing. I've noticed similar readings from my MFD such as miles to empty. My "miles to empty" display counts down in 5 mile increments.
Why can our car calculate instant MPG's, but it can't or doesn't calculate true readings for other measurements? Seeing fixed numbers or fixed calculations leads me to believe other readings/measurements from VAGCOM/MFD may not be all that accurate.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
My theory on why ash volume doesn't change frequently is that the ECM cannot precisely determine the mix of ash / soot that is causing the pressure drop across the DPF at any given time. Over many active / distance "complete" regen events along with all the other data, the ECM likely estimates how much pressure drop is deemed to be permanent blockage (ash) and how much at any given time is due to soot. So not to have to decrement the ash volume, my guess is the ash volume is updated infrequently and only when the ECM is certain that the trend of minimum pressure drop across the DPF has increased (that is, little soot and virtually all ash has casused the increased pressure drop) and thus there is a permanent blockage due to ash in the DPF.

Also, one, two, or three ml is a rather small volume and likely in the realm of uncertainty in the calculation. This is likely why there are large jumps in oil ash volume, posters seem to have similar readings, and it changes infrequently. Just my guess.
 

TDI_Dan

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2015 GSW 6M MKVII, 2011 Golf TDI 6M (bought back)
2226 miles and no regen here. although there were 3 requests for regen.

calc. soot load is 11.4 and measured soot load is 5.4

using 11.3.0 version. I do recall the car being quite hot one day after a drive and the fans stayed on for a while (several minutes) after turning the key off to get something from a convenience store. I thought it was doing a regen, but according to the measuring blocks, it has not.
 

darrelld

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I don't know if the successful regens hit a point that the numbers reset to 0 but mine is now showing 0 too?
 

mctdi

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Dec 10, 2004
Location
se WI
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2010 Jetta
MemberName: mctdi
Model Year: 2010
Model: Jetta
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 70496
Oil Ash Volume: 69
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 42
Comments: Mostly highway.
3.3 Soot Load(g) Calculated
0.0 Soot Load(g) Measured
 

darrelld

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Location
North Texas
TDI
2014 Tesla Model S85, 2017 Chevy Bolt
MemberName: mctdi
Model Year: 2010
Model: Jetta
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 70496
Oil Ash Volume: 69
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 42
Comments: Mostly highway.
3.3 Soot Load(g) Calculated
0.0 Soot Load(g) Measured
As one of the highest mileage 2010s how is she holding up? Any hpfp failures, failed dpfs, iced intercoolers, ect., problems?
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
so in your book "it wasn't holding up well?"

hahaha i couldn't resist.
 

TDI_Dan

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Aug 18, 2011
Location
Michigan
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2015 GSW 6M MKVII, 2011 Golf TDI 6M (bought back)
MemberName: TDI_Dan
Model Year: 2011
Model: Golf
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 2544
Oil Ash Volume: 0ml
Oil Type: Factory fill (original)
Avrg. MPG: 39.4 (via fuelly)
Comments: 4 regen requests, zero actual completed. mostly city. 16.8 Soot load Calculated, 8.4 measured. VCDS 11.8.0 (x64 Beta)
 
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MacBuckeye

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North Carolina
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2009 Jetta
Good to see a 2011 model here. It will be interesting to see how the oil ash builds up in our cars as they get older. Besides using additives, I think I will utilize the "Italian tune-up" as an additional preventative maintenance procedure to keep my DPF and exhaust system in tip-top shape.
:D
 

andy7079

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La Grange, IL
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2010 Jetta Sedan, 2014 Touareg
Good to see a 2011 model here. It will be interesting to see how the oil ash builds up in our cars as they get older. Besides using additives, I think I will utilize the "Italian tune-up" as an additional preventative maintenance procedure to keep my DPF and exhaust system in tip-top shape.
:D
The italian tune-up should help clear the turbo and exhaust manifold of any soot, however I think getting an active regen while on the highway (2k rpm) is probably best. Decent engine load should raise EGTs and high flow rate should help get the unburned diesel deep into the DPF core.
 

King Crimson

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Chicago western suburbs
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2010 Jetta TDI
Particulate DPF filter replaced at 17k miles

OK, I just had my check engine light come on my 2010 Jetta. I take it to the dealer and they wind up replacing the particulate filter, catalytic converter along with some other exhaust tubes. Vehicle was driven for 1 year, has 17k miles, mostly suburban driving in the west suburbs of Chicago. Anyway, the dealer claimed this the filter was defective, and this would have cost $4000 dollars if it hadn't been in warranty. This made me very concerned, but re-assured me this was a defective part and I didn't do anything wrong. Can these particulate filters actually be defective from the factory? Does this make sense?
 
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wutbürger

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Location
St. Louis, MO
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2011 CW Golf 4dr 6mt
OK, I just had my check engine light come on my 2010 Jetta. I take it to the dealer and they wind up replacing the particulate filter, catalytic converter along with some other exhaust tubes. Vehicle was driven for 1 year, has 17k miles, mostly suburban driving in the west suburbs of Chicago. Anyway, the dealer claimed this the filter was defective, and this would have cost $4000 dollars if it hadn't been in warranty. This made me very concerned, but re-assured me this was a defective part and I didn't do anything wrong. Can these particulate filters actually be defective from the factory? Does this make sense?
Hoping some DPF 'servicing' businesses start showing up for our cars much like they have with big rigs, otherwise the DPF is nothing more than a reason, among many others, that the CR TDI's won't save ANY money for you in the long run compared to an efficient gasoline motor as the miles start building up. Granted, we have no data on many 150,000+ mile CR TDI's, but I couldn't imagine forking out $4,000 at 100,000 miles on this thing :eek:
 

N2UADTDI

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Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sedan
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 63k
Oil Ash Volume: 60ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG:43
 

wxman

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Location
East TN, USA
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Other Diesel
Hoping some DPF 'servicing' businesses start showing up for our cars much like they have with big rigs, otherwise the DPF is nothing more than a reason, among many others, that the CR TDI's won't save ANY money for you in the long run compared to an efficient gasoline motor as the miles start building up. Granted, we have no data on many 150,000+ mile CR TDI's, but I couldn't imagine forking out $4,000 at 100,000 miles on this thing :eek:
If that's true, then the manufacturers are robbing their customers blind!

According to the National Academies ("Assessment of Fuel Economy Technologies for Light-Duty Vehicles." The National Academies Press, 2011,
TABLE 5.6 Cost Estimates for Exhaust Emissions Aftertreatment Technologies Capable of Enabling Tier 2, Bin 5 Compliance, page 76), the OEM cost for a catalyzed DPF (@ 2009 PGM prices) is $255 ($124 for "Advanced cordierite brick and can" + $131 for "PGM loading"). As a matter of fact, the cost to the manufacturer of the ENTIRE emission control system for a generic 2.0 liter automotive diesel (DOC + EGR catalyst + cDPF + NCS) is $688 according to that source.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Location
Canada
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TDI
No end-user product costs what it is at the manufacturing source. Cars and their replacement parts are no exception. Nobody (should) believe that his pair shoes made somewhere in Asia costs even 1/20th of its $100+ retail price.

Having worked for a Tier-1 supplier, for auto parts, a 10X markup from mass OEM pricing to retail outlet sounds about right, so if a complete emissions control system costs the OEM $688, rejoice! - you're getting a deal at 4 grand to buy it at retail.
 

740GLE

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Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Also the DPF isn't a stand alone unit on ours doesn't it have the DOC welded right to it.

BTW that unit just looks like a fancy air compressor, that blasts the ash away to a controled container, at 115v 15Amps thats nothing for power.

So blowing the ash through the DOC wouldn't be good. I think the idea of a "trap door" modified DPF is the only way these units can see past their first ash load build up.
 

JSWTDI09

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Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Also the DPF isn't a stand alone unit on ours doesn't it have the DOC welded right to it.
According to a friend (who works in the parts dept of a dealer), you are correct for 2009 TDIs. However, starting with the 2010s the DOC and the DPF are separate parts. This does not necessarily mean that our (2010+) DPF will be cleanable, but at least the DOC should not be an issue except for on 2009 models (like mine).

Have Fun!

Don
 

740GLE

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Location
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I thought it was the DOC/DPF and the NOx were now seporate on the 2010s, seeing the DOC and the DPF need to be as close as possible. I could be wrong as I haven't seen EKTA parts break down.
 

MacBuckeye

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Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
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2009 Jetta
DPF data / ECU enhancements?

I just love the new BMW commercial with the "old" smokey diesels running around.

OK, back on topic. Does anyone know if the newer TDI's have additional programming in the ECU that is monitoring the exhaust system? VCDS has a new version out (10.6) and I wonder if there were any additions/modifications specific to DPF/exhaust measurements. Maybe Ill email the guys at Ross-Tech. Feel free to submit your recent DPF data and I'll update the spreadsheet. Look forward to seeing Passats in here.
Happy Halloween everyone!
 

darrelld

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Location
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2014 Tesla Model S85, 2017 Chevy Bolt
I just love the new BMW commercial with the "old" smokey diesels running around.

OK, back on topic. Does anyone know if the newer TDI's have additional programming in the ECU that is monitoring the exhaust system? VCDS has a new version out (10.6) and I wonder if there were any additions/modifications specific to DPF/exhaust measurements. Maybe Ill email the guys at Ross-Tech. Feel free to submit your recent DPF data and I'll update the spreadsheet. Look forward to seeing Passats in here.
Happy Halloween everyone!
I have been looking at this but VCDS needs to communication with the Passat with a different protocol found only on Beta 11.10. There are many new parameters to make sense of and I have yet to correlate those to my 2010 Jetta values.
 

dataiv

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Feb 12, 2005
Location
Ottawa, ON
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2015 Golf Wagon TDI 6MT
I just happened to catch something interesting today. I thought a regen of the DPF would happen soon, because it had been about 350km or so and several hours of driving, and sure enough the car started an active regen about 3 minutes into a drive, with the coolant temperature at 42 C and I was just driving slowly through the city. Unfortunately the temperature readings go all over the place because I was starting and stopping at lights pretty consistently. I'd love to catch it on a steady state highway drive too, just to see what it looks like.

But, here is a graph showing the coolant temp, pre turbo temp, pre DPF temp, and post DPF temp prior to, during, and after the regen.

Regen started at about 200 seconds into the drive and ended just before 900 seconds, so it seems it was pretty much a 10-11 minute cycle. Post DPF temps hovered at just over 600 C for the entire time except for the warm-up and a few little drops here and there, probably when I was stuck at a long light.



Also, now that I have 17000km on my car, the DPF ash volume reading is at 9 ml. So it seems that calculated value does jump up as the computer decides, as 1000 km ago it was reading 0 ml.

I was logging measuring block 99 for these temps.
 
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DanG144

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Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I just happened to catch something interesting today. I thought a regen of the DPF would happen soon, because it had been about 350km or so and several hours of driving, and sure enough the car started an active regen about 3 minutes into a drive, with the coolant temperature at 42 C and I was just driving slowly through the city. Unfortunately the temperature readings go all over the place because I was starting and stopping at lights pretty consistently. I'd love to catch it on a steady state highway drive too, just to see what it looks like.

But, here is a graph showing the coolant temp, pre turbo temp, pre DPF temp, and post DPF temp prior to, during, and after the regen.

Regen started at about 200 seconds into the drive and ended just before 900 seconds, so it seems it was pretty much a 10-11 minute cycle. Post DPF temps hovered at just over 600 C for the entire time except for the warm-up and a few little drops here and there, probably when I was stuck at a long light.



Also, now that I have 17000km on my car, the DPF ash volume reading is at 9 ml. So it seems that calculated value does jump up as the computer decides, as 1000 km ago it was reading 0 ml.

I was logging measuring block 99 for these temps.
Excellent post! Thank you.
 

tdi90hp

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Canuckland
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2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
Hoping some DPF 'servicing' businesses start showing up for our cars much like they have with big rigs, otherwise the DPF is nothing more than a reason, among many others, that the CR TDI's won't save ANY money for you in the long run compared to an efficient gasoline motor as the miles start building up. Granted, we have no data on many 150,000+ mile CR TDI's, but I couldn't imagine forking out $4,000 at 100,000 miles on this thing :eek:

this will become a very busy topic in a couple of years....way more concerned about this than the friggin HPFP...
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
at how many ml is the DPF clogged or does it work that way??
We don't know at what level of ash might lead to the soot load calculation to exceed a maximum level (IIRC 45 grams) where regeneration is not possible.

This is my understanding of what happens. The DPF collects both ash and soot. As soot accumulates when the car is run, it can be oxidized via regeneration (passive, active, distance, and service). Even though all of the soot may be oxidized (and the soot load could be zero at any given time / mileage), there will be additional ash left in the DPF after regeneration from engine oil / engine wear / air intake and so forth as the miles accumulate. Eventually, the ash level will increase to the extent that the soot load in the DPF will reach 45 grams where regeneration of the DPF is not possible and the DPF has to be cleaned / replaced.
 
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