Motul SPECIFIC 505.01 5W40 oil, comments?

Eric Maurier

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2001
Location
Angers, Maine et Loire, France
TDI
Skoda Octavia '01, TDI 90
505.01 is for pumpe duese engines. They need a special resistance to high pressures the oil sees between the cam and rocker arm (if that's the right translation) for the injectors.
Bottom line: you're paying a premium for something you don't need. This oil is not even ACEA B4 certified. The 505.00 is OK, but when I choose mine I always make sure it passes MB 229.3, ACEA B3/B4 and VW 505.00.
 

Deception

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Bottom line: you're paying a premium for something you don't need. This oil is not even ACEA B4 certified. The 505.00 is OK, but when I choose mine I always make sure it passes MB 229.3, ACEA B3/B4 and VW 505.00.
I purchase Motul products at wholesale cost so pricing is not an issue. This jug of Motul is actually cheaper than what I'd have to pay to get Delvac-1, Amsoil, etc. locally.

Even if I had to pay close to retail I wouldn't mind since I only have to change my oil once every 8-10k kilometers.


As for the SPECIFIC 505.01 5W40 oil's approvals, here are the related ones listed on the back of the jug:

VW 505.01, 505.00, 500.00
Ford Wss M2C 917A
A3/B3 SJ/CF

I thought passing VW's specifications was more important than meeting the API/ACEA specs, since the latter two are American standards and not used much in Europe?
 

FowVay

Veteran Member
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Aug 27, 2000
Location
Georgia
TDI
2009 Jetta returned to der Führer
I thought passing VW's specifications was more important than meeting the API/ACEA specs, since the latter two are American standards and not used much in Europe?
API (American Petroleum Institute) is a North American organization. ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeans d' Automobiles) is a European organization.

Personally I follow the ACEA's standards and the vehicle manufacturers standards over the API's ratings.
 

Eric Maurier

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2001
Location
Angers, Maine et Loire, France
TDI
Skoda Octavia '01, TDI 90
I thought the PD engines called for VW 506?
I should have known that, each time I post something in this forum, I have to dig up stuff afterwards


So the following comes from the latest repair instructions from VAG (references available upon private request
)
"Improved lubricity multi-grade oils, specification VW 506 00 (long-life oil)
Improved lubricity multi-grade oils, specification VW 500 00 (not a long-life oil)
Multi-grade oils, to specification VW 505 00 (not a long-life oil)
Multi-grade oils, to specification API-CD (not a long-life oil)
Multi-grade oils, to specification VW 501 01 (not a long-life oil)
Notes:
Engines 2001 =>(1 =>)with long-life service or 2000 =>(Y =>)with time or distance dependent service are filled during production with improved lubricity multi grade oils to specification VW 506 00 (long-life oil) except for engines with unit injectors. This oil is designed for extended service intervals. Oils mentioned above not designed for long-life service may also be used.
Diesel engines with unit injector technology are filled with oil conforming to VW standard 505 01 and only this oil may be used when filling or topping-up.
Vehicles => 1999 (=> X), oils conforming to VW specification 506 00 must not be used, as this may cause damage to the engine. "

In a nutshell: the recent non-PD diesel engines come from factory filled with 506.00 compliant oil, which is a longlife oil. PD engines have and should always use 505.01. The latter is not a longlife oil.
Looking at the 506.00, I understand why damage could result: it's based only on ACEA B4 (which is essentially an ACEA B2 with tests on a TDI piston) but they force the HTHS viscosity to 2.9-3.4 instead of 3.5 min for the ACEA specs (which makes sense, as this "longlife" oil will as time goes by become loaded with soot and thicken a lot). Which means a 506.00 grade 30 oil, when not loaded with soot, under high temperature and high engine speeds, may "collapse" in some places, leaving metal to metal friction, in an engine not designed for its use.

As for the 505.00 compared to the ACEA standards: 505.00 is based on CCMC PD-2 (the ancester of ACEA B3). It has in addition valve train wear and seal compatibility tests (which I couldn't find if they're the same as the ACEA tests). However it only requires a max evaporative loss of 15% for the 5/10W-30/40 grades, which is less stringent than the ACEA B3 (13% max). It's my guess (since not all data to compare both norms is truly available) that ACEA B3+B4 is more stringent than 505.00.
I also like to see the MB 229.3, because it has engine sludge, piston cleanliness requirements and cam wear tests (which the ACEA/VW doesn't have except for VW VTW) and another cam wear test (on the M111E). Furthermore, the max bore polishing goes down from 7% in the ACEA tests to 4.5% in the MB. The max viscosity increase @40*C goes down from 90% for the ACEA to 70% for MB.



So, see you at the waterfest, TDIMeister? Hopefully I'll be with Uwe selling systems
 

steve f tdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Location
va
TDI
2000
Bottom line: you're paying a premium for something you don't need. This oil is not even ACEA B4 certified. The 505.00 is OK, but when I choose mine I always make sure it passes MB 229.3, ACEA B3/B4 and VW 505.00.
Hi Eric and Deception. While on Motul's website I came across this oil which seems to meet the requirements of our vehicles. It's Motul 8100 X-Cess 5/40.
VW 505.00
ACEA A3/B3/B4
MB 229.3
OPEL/GM Diesel LLB-025
I think I will try this oil next oil change. My good friend, who owns his own shop, carries Motul products, so It's easy for me to purchase.
 

Deception

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Are Motul's products highly recommended in France as being of high quality, or is it just fancy marketing over here in North America?
 

itsmejerry

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Joined
Sep 6, 2002
Location
Birmingham, AL
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDI Nav, 2015 Passat SE TDI, 2015 Beetle Convertible TDI, 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI All Phase 2 Emission Modified complete. 50 State Legal Diesel!
Multi-grade oils, to specification VW 505 00 (not a long-life oil)
?
Does this mean that the Castrol (Dealer only Syntec) 5w/40 is not a long-life (10,000 mile) oil?
 

Eric Maurier

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2001
Location
Angers, Maine et Loire, France
TDI
Skoda Octavia '01, TDI 90
Does this mean that the Castrol (Dealer only Syntec) 5w/40 is not a long-life (10,000 mile) oil?
In the US you don't have the same perception of "long life" as we do in Europe. When VW talks about long life oil, it's up to 50000 kms (30000 miles). Of course that implies decent fuel


Re. Motul in France: it's not perceived as a higher quality product compared to the other brands. I once enquired about the noack volatility of their 5W40 top spec diesel oil at that time (1 or 2 years ago) and I was quite disappointed to see they were just at the limit of the ACEA spec. Whereas the Shell Helix Ultra Diesel (100% syn, 5W40) performs much better with a volatility around 10% IIRC. Actually I have found out that the Castrol GTD (100% syn, 5W40 too) does even better in terms of oil consumption between oil changes. You can see a difference in level with the Shell, whereas there's none using the Castrol. Both these oils comply to ACEA B3/B4 - VW 505.00 - MB 229.3 plus various manufacturer specs like BMW or Peugeot but the specs for these are hard to find, so not so much interesting.
 

Rammstein

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Location
Québec city baby, Canada
TDI
Golf 92 D
What about Mobil Delvac 1?

Is it a long life oil?

I have no clue if you have it on the other side of the pond, maybe your local Esso carries it.

50 000 km is indeed longlife!!!


Eric, you'll be at the waterfest?

Which stand?


I'll be there.
 

Eric Maurier

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2001
Location
Angers, Maine et Loire, France
TDI
Skoda Octavia '01, TDI 90
Delvac 1 is totally unknown in most of Europe (someone correct me if I'm wrong). All the mobil we have here is "Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel". You have it in 5W40 and I think in 0W40 or 0W30. As previously mentionned, longlife diesel oils by VW terms are only those complying with 506.00, and so far you won't find those in supermarkets or even automotive shops.
The 505.01 specific oils are starting to show up a bit everywhere though, not such a wonder when almost 70% of the cars sold here are diesels, with TDIs in good place. The PD showed up in late 2000, so people are starting to do their own oil changes on these models now.

Waterfest:
which stand? Ross-Tech booth, of course!
 

Cary G

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Toronto, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr.
I've been using Motul 8100 Ester Etech 0W-40 oil for the last year. My engine runs noticeably smoother than when i use to use Delvac 1, which was for almost 3 years. Keep in mind that i always changed my oil at 5000 KM, this is because i primarily only drive the car for short distances. This might be overkill but i'm hoping that the thinner 0W-40 oil will lubricate faster and heat up faster than thicker oils. It gets really expensive for oil changes, about twice the price of Delvac 1, but money was not an issue.
I wrote to Motul on their forum and this is what they had to say:

published on : 09/08/02 by Cary
Email : cgchaionn@yahoo.com

Using 8100 0W-40 oil year round in 2000 VW Golf TDI?
Can i use Motul 8100 Ester 0W-40 year round in my 2000 Golf TDI Diesel or is it better to use the 6100 5W-40 in the summer and then switch over to the 8100 0W-40 for the winter? And finally is the 8100 0W-40 a better oil than the 6100 5W-40 for regular driving/commuting? Thanks, Cary


published on : 12/08/02 by Motul
Email : Motul

2000 VW Golf TDI
The question is : your TDI engine is fitted with unit injectors or not. If yes, you have to use the MOTUL 6100 VW 505 01 5W-40. If not you can use on the year round basis 8100 E-Tech 0W-40 or 6100 Synergie 5W-40, knowing that the performance of 8100 is superior. Note : do not make any confusion between 6100 VW 505 01 5W-40 for unit injectors and 6100 Synergie 5W-40 for all other VW engines.

Like someone said, the Motul 6100 VW 505 01 5W-40 oil is specific only to the PD engines with unit injectors but the Motul 8100 Eter Etech 0W-40 is superior compared to their regular Motul 6100 5W-40. Keep in mind that my car is a North American spec TDI.
As far as longevity of Motul 8100 Ester Etech 0W-40, i could not tell you as i change out my oil every 5000 KM. I suspect Delvac 1 oil would be better for 10,000-15,000 KM oil changes but i have not done any oil analysis comparisons between the two. But with the 0W-40 oil, the engine runs smoother and more importantly, upon cold startup (i mean -15 to -25 celsius cold) the little knocking that you hear goes away almost instanly with this oil as compared to Delvac 1. It might not be the oil for you because of price but if any of you guys out there do mostly short trips, you might consider this oil.
 

Portabella

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
TDI
2003
Hi. I would be VERY interested in trying the Motul 8100 X-Cess 5/40 .

Is there a Distributor in the USA ?
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Deception,

How's that 505.01?? Do you know if your place will ship/sell to the US market?

L

Here's some info not listed in Deception's URL

SPECIFIC 505.01 5W40

Volkswagen Gasoline and Diesel engine oil
Technosynthèse

TYPE OF USE
Specially designed for cars powered by Volkswagen Turbo Diesel engine (unit injector)
Suitable for all types of VW gasoline (except VW 502 00) or Diesel engines, using leaded or unleaded gasoline and Diesel fuel.


PERFORMANCES
STANDARDS API : SJ/CF – ACEA : A3/B3
APPROVALS VW 505 01
VW 500 00 / 505 00
PERFORMANCE Meets FORD WSS M2C 917A requirements
Official approvals of VW guarantee the quality of the product development and manufacturing process.
SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade is fully adapted to recent gasoline and Diesel engines.
The synthetic base stock provides very high lubricating power which reduces frictions and ensures resistance to very high temperatures reached in modern engines.
Anti-oxidation, Anti-wear, Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam properties.


RECOMMENDATIONS
Drain interval : according to manufacturers’ recommendations and tune to your own use. MOTUL Specific 505.01 5W-40 can be mixed with synthetic or mineral oils.



California Distributor

They sell it for $6.07 per litre. 1 case is 6 litres. They give a 10% discount per case. Shipping to the east-coast is about $18.00
 

Deception

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Hey tongsli,

The place I got it from is the Canada-West distributor of Motul products (Specialty Lubricants Inc.) located in Richmond, BC Canada. I'm not sure if they do sales to the US market, but if you can't seem to find a US-based wholesaler, I can see if he can do an order out there.

The oil is working great so far, no complaints.
(Nothing remarkable either, the motor just runs fine as it usually does)
 

kevinbezanson

New member
Joined
May 16, 2017
Location
Langley
TDI
2004 Golf TDI BEW
Hey tongsli,

The place I got it from is the Canada-West distributor of Motul products (Specialty Lubricants Inc.) located in Richmond, BC Canada. I'm not sure if they do sales to the US market, but if you can't seem to find a US-based wholesaler, I can see if he can do an order out there.

The oil is working great so far, no complaints.
(Nothing remarkable either, the motor just runs fine as it usually does)
Whats the contact information to this company?

Replying to the original question - I just bought some motul 8100 x-clean and Ill repost if I have any issues. I originally was going to use Lucas 505.01 oil that said it was vw rated on the bottle but it wasnt specified by vw as a certified oil in their documentation.

I found it at Lordco for $50...but I hate going there
 
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