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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old September 20th, 2019, 05:19   #1
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Default DMF with waterboxer bell?

is it possible to run a tdi flywheel inside the waterboxer 094 trans? i'll be using a kennedy 3650 adapter which adds approximately 1/2" to the depth... really want to run a DMF to help soften impact on the trans... thanks Y'all!
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Old September 20th, 2019, 18:17   #2
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ok, got a pic from kennedy, looks like the inside of adapter has casting that spans the entire ID save for the rear seal holder/crank area.... possibly could machine out this area so the DMF can clear .... maybe this would remove too much material? ... maybe have a custom plate machined from billet?
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Old October 1st, 2019, 18:02   #3
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Hi Jimbote,

When I installed my ALH to a vanagon waterboxer bellhousing using a KEP adaptor, I did check to see if I could fit the ALH DMF. It look like the ring gear diameter was larger on the ALH DMF, meaning the ring gear would interfere with the bellhousing and wouldn't work with the starter. Also as you stated the adaptor interfered with the DMF. I ended up using a light ( 14 lbs) single mass flywheel that worked ok, still I'm in the same boat as you, I would love to find a DMF that would work with the KEP adaptor. I want to keep the engine at 15 deg angle, so the stock vanagon diesel bellhousing wouldn't work for me.

Thanks

Mathieu
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Old October 8th, 2019, 11:44   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathieux46 View Post
Hi Jimbote,
When I installed my ALH to a vanagon waterboxer bellhousing using a KEP adaptor, I did check to see if I could fit the ALH DMF. It look like the ring gear diameter was larger on the ALH DMF, meaning the ring gear would interfere with the bellhousing and wouldn't work with the starter. Also as you stated the adaptor interfered with the DMF. I ended up using a light ( 14 lbs) single mass flywheel that worked ok, still I'm in the same boat as you, I would love to find a DMF that would work with the KEP adaptor. I want to keep the engine at 15 deg angle, so the stock vanagon diesel bellhousing wouldn't work for me.
Thanks
Mathieu
Hey Mathieu, did you use a g60 type 133t flywheel? and if so what starter did you end up with? thanks!
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Old October 8th, 2019, 18:42   #5
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Jimbote,


The flywheel I used was coded 037 105 273. No clue what was the VW 4 cyl it originally came from, I had bought from the classified add on TheSamba. I weighted it, it was very light for a TDI, but I needed to get going with the swap so I installed it. I used a stock TDI starter with an adaptor for a waterboxer bellhousing which put the starter gear at the right location.

Overall works ok, but I wish I could find a better flywheel, DMF or heavier SMF. Possible the KEP flywheel is a bit heavier.


Tks

Mat
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:14   #6
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thanks Mat, so great news! that number comes up as a g60 flywheel which has the same tooth count as the luk DMF... i believe i can machine out the inner cast area from the 3650 kennedy adapter and use the luk dmf... can you link the starter adapter you used? thank's so much for the response!
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Last edited by jimbote; October 9th, 2019 at 08:17.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 20:01   #7
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I know this post will not exactly answer your question(s). But, I thought I'd share this for a bit of reference.

If I remember correctly, the WBXer Tranny Bell Housing is about 11mm deeper than the Diesel Bell Housing (the pilot shaft is longer). The DMF fits darn close to the engine block which makes the fingers on the pressure plate almost the same distance from the block as with the other flywheels depicted below.

The starter ring gear is the same on all three of the flywheels below.

In the pics below,

DMF on the left, G60 SMF in the center and an OE diesel flywheel that was bolted to a 1.6 VW Diesel engine on the right. They all fit inside the Diesel Bell Housing with some very minor clearance grinding for the DMF and G60. And, tabs on the G60 flywheel had to be knocked down (or at least I thought so). I did clearance grinding for the G60, thus, I did not have to do any additional grinding for the DMF to fit.

When I laid the OE Diesel Flywheel on top of the others to align the Teeth and identify the TDC mark, they were all the same diameter and matched perfect. Also, as mentioned above, the DMF (notice left side of each) is extremely close to the engine block when bolted up and the G60 is almost as close. Thus, the fingers on the pressure plate are almost the same distance from the block on all three set-ups. And, the starter will operate properly on all three flywheels.

Lastly, although not perfectly aligned in the photo below, if you notice, the TDC mark can be seen on the Diesel pressure plate to the right. Then, look at each of the other two flywheels to see where I scribed a TDC mark on them. (Remember, the viewing hole for TDC is not in the same location on a Vanagon Bell Housing as on the TDI transmission.



G60 SMF below





Diesel Bell Housing showing clearance grind marks..



In summary, I believe with the adapter and some clearance work on the WBXer tranny bell housing, a DMF should work just fine. However, the 11mm additional depth of the WBXer Bell Housing may be of concern. The adapter will add to that depth.

Let us know...

Hope this helps..
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Last edited by AndyBees; October 9th, 2019 at 20:39. Reason: Add a comment
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Old October 10th, 2019, 03:24   #8
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hey Andy, actually the wbx bell is around 11mm shallower than the diesel bell, so adding the roughly 1/2" kennedy adapter brings it in line with the deeper diesel bell.... this will let me use the vanagon/tdi input.... now i just need to identify what tdi starter adapter Mathieux46 used with his kennedy and g60 flywheel... thanks Andy!
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Old October 10th, 2019, 05:46   #9
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Well, yeah, I got that backwards and was scratching my head (notice the edit). Considering we've been out of town a few days, I was too lazy to venture out to the garage and confirm one way or another.

Love my DMF........

Anytime ...
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Old October 15th, 2019, 19:05   #10
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Jimbote,

This is a 1996 - 2003 manual-trans VW TDI, SR0408X/409X using the adaptor to fit the bellhousing sold by westventures

http://westyventures.com/parts.html

Hope this helps....
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Old October 25th, 2019, 05:06   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathieux46 View Post
Hi Jimbote,

When I installed my ALH to a vanagon waterboxer bellhousing using a KEP adaptor, I did check to see if I could fit the ALH DMF. It look like the ring gear diameter was larger on the ALH DMF, meaning the ring gear would interfere with the bellhousing and wouldn't work with the starter. Also as you stated the adaptor interfered with the DMF. I ended up using a light ( 14 lbs) single mass flywheel that worked ok, still I'm in the same boat as you, I would love to find a DMF that would work with the KEP adaptor. I want to keep the engine at 15 deg angle, so the stock vanagon diesel bellhousing wouldn't work for me.

Thanks

Mathieu

Hey Mat, do you remember what clutch you ended up using with the light weight flywheel? ...I just reread your post and see you stated it appeared the DMF had a larger ring gear than the flywheel you ended up using...did it look like the flywheel ring gear was changed for a smaller unit? still trying to pin this down before I order the 3650 kit...thanks again!
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Old October 26th, 2019, 13:15   #12
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Jimbote,
I used the existing vanagon clutch disc and pressure plate. It is slipping in 4th gear it didnít look like the ring gear was changed but really had the impression the ring gear on the ALH DMF looked to have a larger diameter. I was a bit in a rush so I didnít took the time to count the tooth when I did the swap.
Hope this help.
Thanks
Mat

Last edited by Mathieux46; October 26th, 2019 at 13:21.
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Old October 27th, 2019, 07:04   #13
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Jimbote,

Shouldnít the flywheel have the same number of tooth as the original waterboxer engine in order to work?

Just a question.

I know the starter adaptor and tdi starter assembly work on a waterboxer engine so in order to work with a G60 flywheel or dmf flywheel that flywheel would need to have the same number of tooth in order to work with starter engagement.

The waterboxer bellhousing donít have much room for a larger diameter anyway I think.
Thanks

Mat
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Old October 27th, 2019, 07:54   #14
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Mat, did you try fitting the DMF ring gear inside the adapter ...yes, you are correct that the ring gear size/tooth count must be the same beween the WB and flywheel you used... my confusion stems from the flywheel part number you used... it comes up as a 4 cylinder inline for a 02A trans save the B or C at the end
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Old October 27th, 2019, 15:55   #15
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looks like 132 tooth/11.09" OD on the TDI DMF ring gear and 130 tooth/10.878" OD on the water boxer ring gear... so i would have to machine out around .200" from the ID of the Kennedy adapter (if not large enough already) and make an offset starter adapter .... the kennedy might not have enough room for machining ...it does have a spigot mount to center it within the WB bell so there may not be enough material
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