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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old August 1st, 2019, 09:05   #1
forrest resto`s
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Angry dealer blaming bad fuel for dpf failure!!..2nd. one in 8 months

2011 jetta manual.. 68,000 miles.. Well.. had the dpf and egr filter replaced 8 months ago under emissions warranty..no problem..with loaner and all..driven around 8000 miles since..codes came back (p2002p 0401) a few weeks ago..took to dealer (Bought 3 tdi's from them, all fixed)..been great up to this point.been there for a week..just got a call and said bad fuel caused it!..Now..I live in the country..use the same places for fuel all the time..they used a "in house test" (you know the tube test)..I'm pissed..2nd dfp in 8 months put around 50,000+ miles on it before the fix since I bought it no problems at all!..no problems since I bought it 6- 7 years ago..and then THE FIX!..?? told them I wanted to see them pull the fuel and a thorough analyses done ..said I will have to go thru corporate ..must return the loaner today...any ideas what to do next?..then who;s to say they did not "add" a little somethin to my tank while there!?? God I'm pissed..my other 2 passats a 2013 and a 2015 that my daughter and wife drive who put at least TWICE as many miles on their DpF's and use the same places to fuel up. have had NO problems with theirs...What a scam!..God I'm pissed..

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Old August 1st, 2019, 09:56   #2
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Search the internet for a lawyer (there are ones that are foaming at the mouth to take VW Diesel cases), call the VWoA HQ and calmly explain the situation (be sure to discuss how many VW's you have and have had), and maybe go to the fuel station to take a sample plus search the internet for diesel fuel testing centers. I'm sure they exist.

The burden of proof is on Volkswagen, not you. Remember that. Doesn't mean it'll be easy though.

It's a shame that stuff like this happens. I had warranty problems with GM about 13 years ago (with the car in my signature) and they jerked me around about it and made a lot of bold claims that they couldn't back up. I probably won't ever buy another new GM because of it.
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Old August 1st, 2019, 09:57   #3
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Insisting on a real lab analyses was absolutely the right thing to do. You might to get a fuel sample from the station you use most. It's pretty shameful how VW handles warranty coverage on these pumps, but the dealerships don't really have an incentive to tamper with the samples.
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Old August 1st, 2019, 10:22   #4
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Thanx guys.. one thing is the statement in the warranty that says.."Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer "...lawyers should love this!.not to mention..pretty certain that ALL fuel is not perfect in ALL stations..even if there was a minor fuel issue...this should not be my fault..from producing a vehicle that cannot survive in a non perfect world of fuel..anyway..on the way there to return the loaner..Thank you!
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Old August 1st, 2019, 13:02   #5
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Just got back from dealer..refused to draw anymore fuel for testing..report says "test dpf and worksheet per vta test plan,found everything passing with test plan..per vta tested fuel quality and density..density passed BUT quality failed...vta case # blah blah... will need gas tank drained and cleaned and dpf & egr cooler replaced..customer declined repairs" gave a b/w picture of the test tube being tested..nothing to see really sooo...this is bull sh!!t!..I filled up the car few weeks before going there ( codes were there weeks before that)..used 3/4 tank when I brought it there..gee wonder why the hpfp didn't blow also!...soo..anything I need to say to corporate besides the obvious??..e.g.drove it for 7 years ..no problems..got fix..700 miles later dpf failed..repaired...7000 miles later failed again..wife and daughter buy same fuel as me..both drive 5 times more mileage than me also.(around 30,000+ more than me since fix), no problems with theirs . I only have 68,000 miles on a 2011! and 2 dpf failures in 8000 miles since fix...Thanx ya'll for any advise going forward..will call corp..

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Old August 1st, 2019, 14:21   #6
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Stay calm and get on the phone with VWOA. As was stated above always good to mention that you have a house full of VW's. Avoid extraneous information that doesn't help your cause such as blaming the fix for wrecking the DPF. That doesn't matter right now. All that matters is that your car has a part that failed that should be covered under warranty.
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Old August 1st, 2019, 15:29   #7
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Thanx kite.I own a shop and work on these cars and am pretty knowledgeable on them..But I am no expert on fuel contamination causing dpf failure..never had to call a corp. for a problem with a warranty/repair..obviously they will defend their position...would my defense to their claim..besides having a bunch and our others having no problems like mine (with alot more mileage since fix also), not to mention the clause in their warranty "conflicts concerning warranty are to be resolved in favor of the customer".I mean really..this debacle is a no brainer..it's obvious they are full of it...If they refuse to help. "sorry but you used contaminated fuel"..what's next ?.. attorneys? Then if I don't pay for them to fix it ( which I most definitely wont!)..any other issues covered under warranty in future will be void? correct? I can't thank you or others enough for the help/opinions!.. Forrest

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Old August 1st, 2019, 19:37   #8
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When DPFs fail in short order like that, I'm more likely to suspect a boost leak than fuel quality. I've definitely seen boost leaks cause premature DPF failure. The scan tool "test plan" probably says nothing about it. Or they might log requested vs. actual boost, which isn't a bad thing to look at, but there are boost leaks that can be relatively minor, the actual still meets requested with foot to the floor, but that doesn't mean it isn't generating much more soot than it should because it's still not the correct volume of air. Mass air is reading more flow than the engine is actually receiving and requests the fueling to be high even though the actual volume isn't there, despite the pressure reading acceptable.
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 06:21   #9
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Thanx Matt..very good point on the boost leak,Have read some about that,interesting point of using more fuel..noticed a drop in fuel mileage around when I got the fix, of course some was expected though but a little more than I expected..,,but how does it coincide with getting the fix? maybe the first time they replaced the dpf hmmm? Also how does one determine where the leak is coming from if so small? probably can't tell with vcds?...I am calling corp. today..will mention this I guess..Kite mentioned not to mention the fix.. at some point this may be necessary..being that it's possible the boost leak may have originated from the first dpf replacement..remember NO issues for 60,000 miles until around 500 miles after the fix.and MY 4 others and the associates that I convinced to buy them with alot more mileage since fix using fuel from pretty much same places have NO issues. we'll see.. thanx again!

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Old August 2nd, 2019, 07:39   #10
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I understand the situation but you come across as having a severe negative attitude, and that will hurt you in dealing with this. Be civil, short and to the point. Getting the car fixed. Get them to perform an independent industry standard fuel test or request a sample for one for yourself to do. They aren't cheap. The easier you are to work with the sooner and better this will turn out. If you go sour quickly so will they and it will be a fight and a mess. You can force them (if need be) to the legal requirements of the court ordered document, but it will require legal help and be a mess. I am against deletes but I have said many times that if they do this to me and force my hand I will delete and move on. It is cheaper and more reliable and the car runs better, only dirtier and in some states little to no repercussions. If it is bad fuel then the fueling station is at fault and others should have been affected. Get a sample from there too and any reports they may have had of issues during the time you fueled your cars there, from corporate. Sometimes they push just to test the waters on what can be gotten away with. Know your subject and the court ordered settlement.
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 08:27   #11
forrest resto`s
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Thanx Lightflyer1..guess I had a "negative attitude" initially..only because I just was informed of their decision..of course I am always civil when I have to confront someone about a "difference of opinion"..anyway..any idea how many miles need to be driven with "bad fuel" for the dpf to crack/fail?? As I said earlier they will NOT pull any fuel out for me or them.."not authorized" by corp...LOL.. Filled the car up more than A month ago..I obviously don't drive this car much.."request a sample"?.. from who? Them? how does that work, I have the car here..they will not do anything without approval from corp......also we just finished submitting our taxes to the accountant.. have to dig out the most recent receipt..Thanx! I really appreciate ya'alls help!.. Forrest

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Old August 2nd, 2019, 09:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrest resto`s View Post
Also how does one determine where the leak is coming from if so small? I am calling corp. today..will mention this I guess.
You can make a boost leak tester. Real easy to do. PVC pipe, PVC cap, drill a hole, insert a valve stem, seal it, connect to the system, fill with air, listen for leaks. Best to do it with the engine at TDC and all the valves closed. Well, I assume all the valves are closed at TDC... but I'm new to these cars and don't know them as well. Generally, that's the case though.

Search YouTube. There are a thousand videos on boost leak testers. Here's an ancient (2009, lol) Mighty Car Mods video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atretf9u-Mc

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Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
If it is bad fuel then the fueling station is at fault and others should have been affected. Get a sample from there too and any reports they may have had of issues during the time you fueled your cars there, from corporate.
I was coming in here to say this.

IF the fuel is to blame, you need to get a sample from the fuel station, and you need to get receipts, because the blame then passes to the fuel station. The question is how much will you have to pay someone (a lawyer) to rectify this situation? Probably be cheaper to order an EGR & DPF delete with a tune.
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 10:30   #13
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Draw a fuel sample yourself and document it with pictures and witnesses if possible. Get a written letter from the station you usually fuel at stating they have had no issues and any testing done on that batch when you fueled there last. You are going to have to get organized and get some actual facts together if you want to move their opinion. They won't do it on just your say so or a tantrum. Start looking up what it takes to go to small claims court in your area and how to do that. It isn't easy and takes some work on your part, but you will need the facts and procedures on what to do. Or call it a day and get the delete and be done with them forever (on this car).
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 12:15   #14
forrest resto`s
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Thanx Lightflyer..Hopefully will not have to go thru all that..Well so far lookin good.. they (corp. customer service) contacted the dealer and said it's more than likely will be approved!..( was I nice enough?..I'm praying..really!) Will get 100% confirmation by late today or Mon...Interesting note..my car went in with 67,720 miles on the odo...on the report says it came in with 67,135 miles on the odo..600 miles difference..hmmm..what's up with that??..also the airbag light is now on.. wasn't on before I went in..go figure..anyway so far so good.. Thanx again all!

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Old August 9th, 2019, 17:06   #15
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It's finalized for Gods sake!... whewww!.. approved for repair under warranty,( with a little difficulty) parts are approved for order/on order/back ordered! LOL!.. .Now hope to determine why this is happening?..corrupt program file in initial modification/fix... or boost, intake leak?..Thanx all!
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