Lug nut Torque, is 38lbs OEM rating the law of the land

*typo, should be 89 not 38, mixed offset with torque.*

Was hanging out with a gasser friend, good kid, and good mechanic working at a well established VW/TDI friendly business.

I was asking him if he rotate my wheels for me (I got OZ Altigerras, and I like it done by hand the correct way, and yes Im too lazy and crazy to do it on my own)
And mind this, I have 5 year unlimited alignment plan at NTB, they will rotate for free, I just don't trust them.

Anyways, I was telling him need them set to 38lbs, and he looked at me funny and said "I always set mine at 100." He drives a Mk4.
Called another friend and he said 90lbs, I asked him why and he shrugged his shoulders and said "thats what everyone does"

I am assuming that torquing your wheels harder might be necessary at the track, but if so how many lbs'.

And if that isn't the case, what damage could my friends be doing by putting on their wheels with almost 60 lbs more then OEM.

Thanks!

It's 120 Nm / 89 ft-lb for OEM wheels. In the shop manuals and owner's manual.

Fail

I keep a book mark in my Bentley on the page where it says this.

Dont know where I got 38 from, Fing Mondays!

Anyways I drive 17x8 OZ Alleggerita with OEM sized 225/45ZR-17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

So for my buddy who does 99 or 100 LBS to his lugnuts on his daily driver (its a beetle with corvette wheels and slammed) is there anything for him to worry about?

yeah 89 fl-lb is OEM.

I think the OEM length is 38mm or close to it.

God I am so embarrassed, I want to change the title.

It should read "Why are why not should you go above 89lbs in a mk4

Mine are aftermarket alloys and the spec per the manufacturer is 80 ft-lbs.

Abacus said:

Mine are aftermarket alloys and the spec per the manufacturer is 80 ft-lbs.

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May I ask what brand, I got 17" OZ OZ Altileggerita (Ultra light weight, 16.7 lbs) and before them 16 OZ Ultralegerra (14 lbs).
And before that, the OEM 18" BBS RC, which I assume since they were oem were 89lbs of torque.

So I dying to know Abacus, what brand and model wheel do you have, and who did you buy it from?
I got all mine from tirerack (except the BBS, that came from VW dealer)

I bought mine from Tirerack as well and they are MSW Type 15's, 16" and 14".

Even 80 ft-lbs feels light to me, but I've never had an issue and they have never come loose.

TDIGLI,

[Whisper]Claim you mixed up tire pressure and lug nut torque.[/whisper]

It's Ok. We've all done similar stuff.

I used to put all my weight on torquing down lug nuts. This was my Pre-Vw days on cars that used studs and nuts.

Since I have learned that most vehicles don't require over 90ft-lbs I carry a torque wrench in my trunk. Even 90 feels REALLY light, but I have never had a wheel come off and it makes removal super easy as well.

Yea someone I talked to just pushed as hard as possible.

I respect German engineering, and Bentley.

Unfortunately some kids 10 years older then me don't know how to pick up a book or use Google.
I blame it on the iPhone

So I can tell my friend with the beetle with Corvette wheels he should be safe at 100lbs.

I just didn't want him to hurt anything.

Thanks guys!

TDIGLI2002 said:

God I am so embarrassed, I want to change the title.

It should read "Why are why not should you go above 89lbs in a mk4

Click to expand...

Sorry, ... but you CAN edit the first post CONTENT.
Go back and click the "edit" in the lower right, add some comment at the very beginning like "typo, should be 89 not 38". But we'll all know you were thinking offset (38 mm), not torque.
Just add a line at the beginning, don't change the content or else it'll really confuse someone that didn't see the original mistake.

Just to add a bit of confusion. I found in my Bentley manual where it says 89ft-lbs for the front wheels and in another section it listed 87 ft-lbs for the rear.

You guys worry way too much.

LNXGUY said:

You guys worry way too much.

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Agreed.

TDIGLI2002 said:

I keep a book mark in my Bentley on the page where it says this.

Dont know where I got 38 from, Fing Mondays!

Anyways I drive 17x8 OZ Alleggerita with OEM sized 225/45ZR-17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

So for my buddy who does 99 or 100 LBS to his lugnuts on his daily driver (its a beetle with corvette wheels and slammed) is there anything for him to worry about?

Click to expand...

And just to confuse you more, did you change the lug bolts when you changed the wheels? I would assume the wheels would have come with the correct conical seat bolts, but you never know.

It is possible to over-torque lugs and warp the rotors and whatnot, but that would take a lot of force.

There was a thread like this here a couple years ago and I use it as an example of the obsessive nature of TDI owners. It went on for some time about whether 87 or 89 was correct. Really.

Abacus said:

Mine are aftermarket alloys and the spec per the manufacturer is 80 ft-lbs.

Click to expand...

That's because you have a 4 lug wheel bolt pattern vehicle with 12mm lug bolts. The 5 lug wheel bolt pattern cars have 14mm bolts and call for a tiny bit more torque

I do 75lbs-ft with anti-seize. Call me crazy. It always takes quite a bit more to get them off, but the impact makes quick work of it (only off, never on).

Also, my penchant for schadenfreude was what prompted me to click on this topic.

I leave a generic clicker style torque wrench set at 95 in the front drawer of the drawer in my toolbox with the 1/2" drive stuff.

It's what I use on all aluminum wheels. VW, Subaru, Chevy, etc.

It's cheap and I leave it at that setting which could also make it incorrect.

My main thinking is to have them tight and consistent, and not tightened with an impact. So I'm not that anal about the true final torque but I know it's decent and consistent.

Good enough for me, and WAY better than a dealer or tireshop, or inspection place will do unless I know them.

I'm not a big fan of the torque sticks either for impact guns but I don't own them anyways.

Someone around here says drive more, worry less. I believe that applies here.

Ha!....one old timer @ the motorcycle dealer I used to wrench at always told me the proper torque was "1/2 turn before it breaks off" ...lmao...the first time he told this greenhorn that, I was like "how do you know when it's gonna break off?" ...dang I used to be gullible...I kinda miss those days....

IndigoBlueWagon said:

There was a thread like this here a couple years ago and I use it as an example of the obsessive nature of TDI owners. It went on for some time about whether 87 or 89 was correct. Really.

Click to expand...

I suppose I had better shut up about the differences between wet and dry torque....just sayin'

Or how it's different when the torque value is reached through steady tightening rather than testing with a wrench and trying to overcome the bolt's friction.

And then there's this little tire shop I use to mount and balance tires on rims when I'm in Toronto... they've been in business for over 20 years... last time I had them also put the wheels on the car... when it came time to take off the winter tires, I needed a 6 foot cheater pipe on my breaker bar in order to loosen the lug bolts... Apparently my car wasn't their only victim... VDUB-TECH whose shop is across the road said that the owner recently asked him to show how to use a torque wrench!!!!! (Oh... and he never heard of a torque-stick, either...)

...sigh...

Yuri

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Or how it's different when the torque value is reached through steady tightening rather than testing with a wrench and trying to overcome the bolt's friction.

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I was going to make some smart-arse post about using my 3/4 air impact on the bolts until they didn't turn any more - then I read ymz's post and feel it is no longer appropriate.

Actually, I DO use an impact for torque limiting - or did when we still had ice racing and ran two different tire classes. I have a compact (Hitachi) 1/2" 18V that pretty much hits the right value with full battery charge. Batteries 10 years old now will no longer break one loose, and I doubt the torque is right (haven't looked for a while). One day, I would like to see just how close those torque limiting extensions actually come.

I use a torque stick rated at 65 ft-lbs with my impact gun to run down the bolts and tighten them initially. Then, once it's on the ground, I hand-torque to spec (81 or 89 ft-lbs depending on what car we're talking about).

Torque sticks are great for that. Plus it helps make it easier to gauge when you've gotten the wheel to seat fully against the hub if you're dealing with some corrosion for those back East Go back and forth on two opposing bolts until it's fully seated. Dealing with that can be time-consuming when tightening by hand...

Of course, removing as much corrosion as possible with a wire wheel is highly advised before re-installing a wheel.. but even some of those can still be tight.

Years ago I asked a local mechanic about torque values on an old BMW. He said it's easy:

Small bolts get just snug, large bolts get one grunt, key bolts get two grunts, and axle nuts get 2 grunts and a fart.

TDIGLI2002 said:

God I am so embarrassed, I want to change the title.

It should read "Why are why not should you go above 89lbs in a mk4

Click to expand...

Sorry to point out another typo...

Shouldn't it say "Why or why not.." ?

When I deal with aluminum wheels, I always torque 10-15 ft lbs more than spec. Little bits of crud or oxidation build up on the mating surfaces of the rim / hub create a very small gap between the two. And besides, I always figure the crud / oxidation between the wheels gets magically pushed out or squashed with the extra force.

Pat Dolan said:

I suppose I had better shut up about the differences between wet and dry torque....just sayin'

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Wet torque should always be roughly 65-70% of dry torque
You are not alone!

Abacus said:

Years ago I asked a local mechanic about torque values on an old BMW. He said it's easy:

Small bolts get just snug, large bolts get one grunt, key bolts get two grunts, and axle nuts get 2 grunts and a fart.

Click to expand...

Here at our shipyard, Propeller nuts get a 10' cheater pipe and 1 to 4 humans on the end depending on the size. if the wrench breaks during the torquing process then its tight.