I'm dumb (cranked motor w/o checking valve clearance)

So, yesterday I should have just stayed in bed. Really, I could have saved myself a ton of $$ and time. But I didn't. Basically I spent the day taking one shortcut after another and making a small problem progressively bigger. Long story short, I cranked my motor over w/o validating that I had the timing correct by spinning it by hand and I, at a minimum broke a couple of lifters. Here are some pics. Note how chewed up the head is.





Question 1: Do you think this head is ruined (with how chewed up it is)
Question 2: Is there an upgraded (aluminum?) head I should slap in while I'm here?
Question 3: What are the best brand lifters/valves?

TIA...

Some people should not work on their own cars. Every step of the way, you need to completely understand what you are doing. If you don't understand something, you need to stop and educate yourself before you proceed.

Call this guy. he will be able to advise you and provide a quality rebuilt head if it is determined you need it. http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=31923

Ol'Rattler said:

Some people should not work on their own cars. Every step of the way, you need to completely understand what you are doing. If you don't understand something, you need to stop and educate yourself before you proceed.
Call this guy. he will be able to advise you and provide a quality rebuilt head if it is determined you need it. http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=31923

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Ummmm, thanks?? You're right - I don't know anything about cars/don't belong working on them...

Here's another car that I built (one of many):

Here's the article if you want details:http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/129-0609-1971-ford-bronco/

And here's a shot of me fixing a race truck in the Baja 1000 (I was crew chief for multiple race trucks for many years).

So thanks for your kind post. I'll try and take the road less traveled (by you) and assume you aren't such an ass all the time (you're just having a bad day too).

Peace...

I see you were quickly found by the guy who preys on people's mistakes.

Do call Frank, he's the top head repair expert here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=31923

aja8888 said:

I see you were quickly found by the guy who preys on people's mistakes.

Do call Frank, he's the top head repair expert here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=31923

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Thanks man - very helpful!

Ol'Rattler, that's how you respond to somebody in a positive way without coming off like a jerk...

Kind of like "Crash" on Pirate.... lol

One wonders how a person who purports to be so skilled can mess up so badly.

Just asking.

KLXD said:

One wonders how a person who purports to be so skilled can mess up so badly.

Just asking.

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I make mistakes often! Some days they're small, sometimes I make a big one! I try to always learn from them. Yesterday's lesson was to realize when you aren't in the right frame of mind to be working on a project and put the wrench down...

Maybe someday I'll be perfect like you...

IronBenderII said:

I make mistakes often! Some days they're small, sometimes I make a big one! I try to always learn from them. Yesterday's lesson was to realize when you aren't in the right frame of mind to be working on a project and put the wrench down...
Maybe someday I'll be perfect like you...

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Please take a time out and calm down, there's no need to be so defensive. No matter how talented you are, you screwed up royally this time. As others have suggested, Franko6 can help you.

I didn't say I was perfect.

You didn't make a big one you made at least two. Putting the belt on wrong and not checking your work.

It is debatable which was the bigger booboo.

As for me, last belt I did I swapped the new fuel lines. Time before that I left the wrench on the crank when starting the engine. Learned to use a ratchet from that one.

Well, with a Thread title such as: I'm dumb (cranked motor w/o checking valve clearance) followed with such detail and photos, Ol'Rattler wasn't too far off base with his comment. And, he did provide a reputable referral. He (Ol'Rattler) is a regular and does contribute positively in these forums.

A close friend of mine swears a local mechanic should be barred from ever picking up a wrench again. However, to others, he's the man when it comes to maintaining their vehicles.

I sold a head that looked that bad (but worse on the other side ) for $25.00 plus shipping a couple of weeks ago.

Yep! Frank is the guy you need to contact. He can answer those questions.

1854sailor said:

Please take a time out and calm down, there's no need to be so defensive. No matter how talented you are, you screwed up royally this time. As others have suggested, Franko6 can help you.

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LOL. So, I am pretty sure I lead off with the fact that I screwed up. I don't mind screwing up. I've learned the most from my mistakes over the years...

Maybe I am being defensive but it seems like defending myself is a reasonable response when one guy tells me I don't belong working on my own car and the other guy wonders aloud how anybody can make such a big mistake.

Funny that you think I should take a time out/calm down (I'm calm - totally) and make no mention of the people on my ass?

IBII, very few of the people here act like an ass: if it does happen apologies do usually follow very soon. Yes, you were being defensive, but you have the backing to show you just had a bad decision day happen, that was all.

Sorry to seem defensive guys. Just not used to people lining up to cast the first stone. Some good natured ribbing is in order for sure (I've been hearing it from my friends/kids - believe me!) but the way I read it people were just being asses.

Anyway. Was hoping that I could at least upgrade to some aluminum heads or something - if I'm going to spend time/$$ at least I'd like to get an upgrade out of it!!

The head is aluminum.
In my experience, I have found that INA lifters, TRW valves, and my own head porting (intake and exhaust) works out really well on these.

If you need specific references as to where to buy some of these....private message me. I generally have to work on tight-ish budgets.

You do understand your rod/rods could now be distorted....right?
These stock alh rods are not nearly as stout as the old stock 1.6 rods were.

You - I'm an idiot

Us - Yes you are

You -HEY don't call me an idiot, I'm a great mechanic, look at what I can build

Us - Well you sure messed up that is for sure

You - Yeah, I screw up all the time, but I'm still a great mechanic

IronBenderII said:

Ummmm, thanks?? You're right - I don't know anything about cars/don't belong working on them...
Here's another car that I built (one of many):

Here's the article if you want details:http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/129-0609-1971-ford-bronco/
And here's a shot of me fixing a race truck in the Baja 1000 (I was crew chief for multiple race trucks for many years).
So thanks for your kind post. I'll try and take the road less traveled (by you) and assume you aren't such an ass all the time (you're just having a bad day too).
Peace...

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Not a bad day at all. Doing your own maintenance is all about mindset. That's what I was relating to. Basically you have to completely understand what you are doing and stop when you don't and educate yourself on how to proceed.

Building something isn't the same thing. I worked with folks that built aircraft and had no idea how what they built functioned or how to proceed with a maintenance function. Would I want these great folks performing maintenance on my aircraft? Not without close supervision.

IronBenderII said:

... assume you aren't such an ass all the time...

Peace...

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Wrong again!

Frank can get you fixed up with everything including a like new head. Prairieview can probably do an excellent job as well reworking the head while you source all of the parts needed for R&R.

Now is the time to go back over the procedure and find where you made your mistake and discover how to avoid that again. My best suggestion for someone doing a timing belt for the first time is to be very afraid at every step, don't get in a hurry and double check everything before moving on. Then before turning the key, go over the instructions step by step (oldpoopie has a convenient checklist) and check again.

BTW, nice job on the Bronco. What kind of mileage do you get with that thing?

"By day, Jack C is a software engineer."

I bet we could have all guessed that one.

jeez guys calm your tits

IronBenderII said:

Question 1: Do you think this head is ruined (with how chewed up it is)
Question 2: Is there an upgraded (aluminum?) head I should slap in while I'm here?
Question 3: What are the best brand lifters/valves?
TIA...

Click to expand...

probably be able to get the torn up lifter cup out of there with some careful dremel work, yank the head and take the burrs out of the bore, then yank on it with some hooks, maybe weld a nut to it and try jacking it up out, use a brake cylinder hone to shine up any sticky lifter bores

not really, you can get ones with port work done, but it doesn't matter much, just get it cut flat, and if you're pushing it hard with big injectors be sure and have the block decked too

INA for lifters, valves may well be just fine

[486] said:

jeez guys calm your tits

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Definitely!

I enjoyed reading that 12 year old issue of Popular Mechanics. So there's that.

Ol’Rattler did give you the best piece of advice anyone here can give you though...Frank06’ contact information...seriously he’s the best of the best when it comes to head work

I forgot to tighten cam bolt before starting to turn it through by hand, didn't take long to find out,, it is easier to do with the glow plugs out and a good time top check them

IronBenderII said:

Sorry to seem defensive guys. Just not used to people lining up to cast the first stone. Some good natured ribbing is in order for sure (I've been hearing it from my friends/kids - believe me!) but the way I read it people were just being asses.

Anyway. Was hoping that I could at least upgrade to some aluminum heads or something - if I'm going to spend time/$$ at least I'd like to get an upgrade out of it!!

Click to expand...

Well hopefully we're back to the problem at hand.
The stock head and valves are sufficient for all but the most demanding upgrades. Evaluate the lower block stuff (should be fine), then do a head refresh.

If your lifter bores are wasted Frank has a procedure and the tooling to take care of it

We have all made mistakes but some like this are harder to hide and run from and hope no one sees. I have done a few things on engines worse than this in my younger days and try not to repeat them and never let it stop me from working on engines again.
From what I see in the pictures the story of just turning over the engine out of time doesn't seem to make sense. I don't see how lifters and head damage can be what I see in the pictures from turning an engine over with a starter motor. I can understand a little bend in a valve or two but usually I would expect the motor to just lock up and quit turning. That kind of damage seems to have happened from a running engine. Did the engine actually start? Perhaps there was something seriously wrong before you spun the engine over and the turning you did only revealed something deeper was wrong. If the engine only had the force of the starter on the valve system then the damage can't be too much beyond cleaning things up and a few new parts. When things let loose at high rpms is when stuff really gets messed up. Pull the head and check your piston protrusions. If they look good then have the head worked over good with quality new parts and you will know you have a solid running engine. I just wonder if your mistake only revealed some other problems already there.

I think we can work well together, IronBender. I think it's funny people point out mistakes. They could really have some fun with me!

I NEVER accept the moniker, 'GURU', as I can't cross my legs like that and never could levitate. Instead I call myself 'experienced', as I have probably made every single mistake you can make on a TDI, often, long before you ever thought to make it. I now know what 'not to do', as that doesn't work. I call them 'landmines' you should not step on.

There are some obvious things to do. We have repaired litteraly 100's of cylinder heads with this exact problem. That wasn't just a lifter hit from mis-timed. It's more than that.

We invented ways to fix heads I know nobody else does. I may be bragging a little bit, but I've heard it's not bragging if you can prove it. We can prove it.

I once again, have to thank all the people who appreciate the dedicated effort we make to 'Do it Once and Do It Right', and ' Build It Like We're Gonna Buy It'. It's called...

Craftsmanship

I appreciate the accolades. We work hard to earn them. Thanks...

I've heard that before too Frank.

IronBenderII,
I'll have my crow medium rare please. The first sentence of my first post was uncalled for. Seems that in my head, I had combined your post with this one: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=489764 Definitely, my bad.