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Audi SUVs (Q7 & Q5) and other V6 TDIs Discussions area for Audi Q7 and Q5 TDI (2009+ in Canada & the US) as well as others with the V6 TDI such as the A6, A7 and A8 sedans.

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Old March 11th, 2020, 10:52   #16
esteeze
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Interesting thread... I'm facing at a similar decision soon, with the Q5 / Q7 / TReg. I'm leaning towards the Q5 per a lot of what I've seen oilhammer and others post here and in other threads.
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Old March 11th, 2020, 12:35   #17
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I've owned a Diesel Q7 on Air for the last 4 years.. I absolutely love it, had zero issues... Drives and Tows like a dream.. Everything works fine.

I put Truck tires on it, got over 45k miles on this set and im at 8/32 tread right now, cost $700 for a full set of top tier tires on 17s.. one set of DIY OEM Brakes.. $600

I take it offroad, snow busting, towing 7klb trailer, 10k mile overlanding trips.. I gave up my Golf to get into this beast and I have zero regrets.. Its the best Vehicle I've ever had the pleasure of owning.
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Old March 11th, 2020, 12:45   #18
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Q7 can tow more. Q5 is still very capable but maxxed out at 4.4k ( likely not power or tranny, just cooling, chassis, or brakes ).

It depends on what you want Q5 is going to be more sporty, Q7 is going to be more capable for a bigger vehicle.

Q5 gets better mpg... Q7 is probably a bit cushier unless you get a prestige w/ possible adaptive.

Both are great vehicles.

I personally like my Q5 better than the Q7, i have plenty of mods in on mine. Mostly stuff to make it handle way better. Tell you what, this thing with the stuff I've done to it, comes damn close to handling as well as our 2011 Subaru WRX w/ modifications. Its' super predictable, responsive, quicker than you'd think. Even 100% stock w/o launch control i was 0-60 in around 6.5 ( post emissions fix ), now I'm in the mid 5s w/ malone stage 2, intercooler, and exhaust w/ the alphabet soup fully intact.

Current mods for reference:
034 - Front Subframe X-Brace
034 - Trans Mount Insert
034 - Diff Mount Insert
034 - Solid Rear Sway Bar
034 - Rear Sway Bar Endlinks
034 - Rear Subframe Inserts
Darkside Intercooler
Magnaflow Catback
Malone Stage 2 Tune

Current Mileage over 4k miles via fuelly - 29.6 ( I do a TON of city driving think like 75% and this is over the winter )

Last edited by Daemon64; March 11th, 2020 at 12:51.
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Old March 11th, 2020, 13:14   #19
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Q5 has ZF, Treg and Q7 got Aisin.. and IMO Aisin > ZF

Q5 loaner I had did not hold car seats in back any better than my Golf did, so if you got kids or are planning on em its the poorest choice of the two.

Q7 can upgrade to all the Cayenne parts yeh want, sway bars, intercoolers, shifting points, seats, brakes, wheels, etc.

IMO if you want a V6 TDI in a car, the A7 TDI would be much more fun to drive than a Q5
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Old March 11th, 2020, 13:37   #20
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The later Q7s also use a ZF transmission (although not with the TDI, because those went away before that, but it is a version of the same 8sp ZF that goes behind very high output ChryCo Hemi V8s and BMW engines).

The Q5 also has a Porsche version (the Macan).
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Last edited by oilhammer; March 11th, 2020 at 13:41.
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Old March 11th, 2020, 14:30   #21
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My RS6 ate German ZF 6HP's for breakfast.. im weary of German slushboxes after that disaster, I'd rather have my Toyota gearbox if I cant have my 6MT..

My loaner Q5 was a 2019 w/Haldex, I had it during a snow storm and that crap sucked.. so if you go beyond the Diesel Era the Q7 is still the better choice of the two IMO.. its got real torsion quattro still, all wheel steering, and the new 2020 SQ7 is gonna bring us a rear sports diff.. but all this is pointless for a discussion about Diesels.. thats long past our window.

They made Cayenne's since 2002, Macans since 2014.. Can find Cayenne parts all over the place for cheap.. Junk yards are full of em.
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Old March 11th, 2020, 17:13   #22
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Something to keep in mind. If your looking at a 2018+ at that is not a ZF... it's a 7spd dual clutch
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Old March 12th, 2020, 05:41   #23
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Nayr,

While I understand that you have very different experiences A + B does not necessarily mean C. You love your Q7 diesel... more power to you, for your specific set of experiences and choices it made a lot of sense I'm sure. But that doesn't mean the person your giving advice to has your same experience, wants, desires, means, needs, etc...

Lets take this apart piece by piece - Comparing Diesel to Diesel because thats what this topic is about:


Q7 - https://www.edmunds.com/audi/q7/2015...eatures-specs/
Curb Weight - 5,412 lbs
Towing Capactity - 6600 lbs
Length - 200.3
Ground Clearance - 8.1
Width: 78.1
Wheel Base: 118.2
Max Cargo - 72.5
HP - 240
TQ - 406
City Mileage - 19
Highway Mileage - 28

Q5 - https://www.edmunds.com/audi/q5/2015...eatures-specs/
Curb Weight - 4,475 lbs
Towing Capactity - 4400 lbs
Length - 182.6
Ground Clearance - 7.9
Width: 74.7
Wheel Base: 110.5
Max Cargo - 57.3
HP - 240
TQ - 428
City Mileage - 24
Highway Mileage - 31

You get the Q7 if you need to pull more than 4,400lbs, and are concerned that the Q5 isn't somehow big enough.

You get the Q5 if you want a sportier, much more fuel efficient vehicle, that can still tow, and maximum interior space is less of an issue.

Your experience with an RS6 and a german tranny is not necessarily even apples to apples here. Not a single Q5 owner has complained about their tranny failing, and I'm putting 490 ft/lbs into mine... So clearly its robust enough to handle it currently @ 60k miles. Forgot to mention this comment is also a little intense... do you know how many cars, suvs, and pickup trucks now use this very transmission, its EVERYWHERE. Including most modern audi, heavy duty trucks, and etc... It has to be doing something right.

Lastly I find it odd that you think you had barely more room in a Q5 vs a golf. We have an e-golf, made identically to the current golf R, and it is a hell of a lot smaller in it then my Q5. Between the size and since you mentioned haldex, are you sure you didn't have a Q3 loaner? That would match up to everything you described perfectly. Haldex is whats in a Q3... modern Q5 uses Quatro Ultra - its' haldex like... but engages a crap-ton faster.... here is a video of quatro ultra vs haldex vs torsen for reference.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqFK...ature=emb_logo and a jalopnik article talking about it. https://jalopnik.com/audis-high-tech...-bi-1760502139

Last edited by Daemon64; March 12th, 2020 at 06:02.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 06:41   #24
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I have never seen a single failure of any of the ZF 8HP boxes, and we have a lot of them through here. And more all the time, as more and more manufacturers seem to be switching to them. Even Hyundai/Kia is using them in their RWD cars now.

And yeah, the Q5's interior volume is for sure bigger than any Golf, although I would not call it "big" by any means. It is based on the A4 after all. The Q3 is the Golf-based one (using Haldex) like the Tiguan, and is smaller.

Shame Dieselgate happened before we got the V6 TDI in the A4. That would have been a real blast to drive. And they were literally about four months away before the soot hit the fan, so to speak.

I will say, though, the Q5 feels much more nimble than it looks. And is the best power-to-weight ratio I think of any TDI ever sold here aside from maybe the V10 T'reg, but in a drag race the Q5 TDI will handily walk away from one of those, so....
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Old March 12th, 2020, 07:01   #25
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it was definitely a Q5, and whatever Quattro it had it was absolutely horrid on the snowy roads, I tried to kick its ass end out with a little throttle like my Q7 and it nearly spun out and hit the curb, I was barely able to reign it back in and decided not to try that again.

My youngest son's big car seat can go anywhere in my Q7 forward or rear facing, behind me, in middle, behind passenger and nobody adjusts their seat location.. with the Q5, his same car seat was in the middle forward facing because it fit behind neither front seats without them moving uncomfortably far forward, this car seat woulda not worked in this car at all being rear facing... thats exactly why I gave my Golf TDI back, I had 2 kids and 2 car seats and no reasonable way to get em all to fit without sacrificing adult comfort.. I'm 6'4" so my seat can only go so far forward.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 08:51   #26
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Nayr,

I guess given that description I could easily see how that was possible given easily a few things. Modern Q5 is like 1500 lbs lighter than your q7 ( alot less dig in )... the dual clutch auto in that shifts down seriously fast, and its power to weight ratio is way over your Q7. Even with a torsen I could see that happening on an unfamiliar vehicle with such different driving dynamics. I'm 100% not blaming that on you, or your ability to handle different vehicles. That just makes a lot of sense. Then coupling those factors with the AWD system that reacts very differently, and thats 1000% understandable. My guess is that for us that are used to the diesels w/ the torsen it would seem way less predictable... especially also since the gasser 2.0 spools up some stupid amount faster too. I had an A4 Avant loaner, same drivetrain as the q5 and that thing was intense for responsiveness compared to my Diesel Q5... didn't really feel any quicker but just the time it takes to get to the power between the dual clutch, and the 2.0 twinscroll it was stupid, and that could easily overcome tires on a snowy road.

As far as diesel to diesel Q5 vs Q7. I will tell you the power is completely predictable and etc.. in the Q5 just like I'm sure it is in the Q7. In its current form... I have literally 4 wheel drifted under WOT @ 20 - 30 mph.... fun as hell w/ a little rotation... hahaha...

As far as car seats I woudn't know... kids are still a few years off, but thanks for the heads up, and i fully understand on the seat I'm 6'2 myself.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 09:00   #27
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To be fair, any AWD vehicle that is based on a primary FWD platform will react differently than any AWD vehicle that is based on a primary RWD platform. And if getting sideways is your thing, then.... there ya go. I would imagine most people don't drive like that, and are more concerned with staying ON the road, and going in a straight line.

The only way I can get my 4Mo B5 to do anything "crazy" is to disable the ABS/ESP altogether. And even then, its predictable but not exactly like a simple rear wheel drive car. It will never be a drift king, LOL. But with everything working (and I grace it with snow tires), it has never met any snowy road it couldn't easily slop right on through. The road road suspension (about a 1.5 inch lift) certainly helps.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 09:07   #28
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I chalked it up to my Torsion AWD is rear wheel biased, so on low traction situations a lil throttle can kick the back end out and you can go slideways all day long w/lil throttle modulation.

The Q5 didnt kick out at all so I tried to give it a lil flick and next thing I know I'm oversteering one direction, let off the throttle, snap back the other direction with more oversteer.. it felt more more like me trying to get a FWD car to drift.. TC was disabled (as you can by pushing button)..

Ayup I was totally unfamiliar with the handling characteristics of that vehicle, but Ive had plenty of torsion based quattros in my driveway for last few decades and none of em ever gave me a white knuckle ride like that before, its not like my RS6 was ever wanting for power.. I Thought the Q5 had torsion quattro and not haldex, or I'd probably not had tried that but I just dropped kiddos off at school, had a brand new audi and tons of snow covered back roads to take home.. so my curiosity got the better of me.

All the Diesel Q5's had torsion quattro and not haldex, so I'd expect your Q5 to be every bit as fun as mine is in the snow.. but go try out the new one, its a whole different vehicle when its FWD biased and you cant get more than 50% to the rear.. With the way Audi puts its engines so far forward, its more apparent than perhaps you'd think it should be.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 09:17   #29
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What Haldex system are you talking about in use on a longitudinal VAG application? I am not aware of any such vehicle.

And the fancy "torque vectoring" rear diff in some of the newer fancier longitudinal Audis is manufactured by Magna, not Haldex. The only VAG products I know of that use the Swedish Haldex system are the transverse applications. All the longitudinal units use some form of Torsen or the newer cars with that crown gear type deal started with the A7.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 09:22   #30
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Isint Quattro Ultra just Haldex for longitudinal engines? they operate the same even if they are branded differently.
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