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Old August 22nd, 2013, 18:43   #1
HeAvYfUeL
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Default Two shades of green: 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid versus 2013 Jetta TDI

http://cars.chicagotribune.com/fuel-...d-tdi-20130820
Is the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid needed when VW already makes a fuel-efficient Jetta TDI?
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Old August 30th, 2013, 11:10   #2
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"The TDI offers plenty of thrust from a stop, but it plateaus quickly, sapping some of the punch needed for highway passing."

I'm not convinced the TDI lacks in this department...
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Old August 30th, 2013, 23:04   #3
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neither am i, this is where the large amount of torque the tdis have comes in.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 23:15   #4
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Jetta needs a hybrid because a significant portion of its potential market is convinced that hybrid technology is The Answer. It may also show fuel economy advantages over diesel or gasoline engines in stop and go urban driving.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 04:48   #5
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The article is pretty spot on. I picked up a 2013 Jetta Hybrid SEL a couple of weeks ago. I helped to justify the decision by the fact that they had knocked $4000 off the price and I had a lot of equity in my 2010 Golf. It was hard letting go of the Golf, but the Hybrid is loaded with lots of bells/whistles, upgraded suspension and interior. I would get low 40s mpg on my commutes into Boston in the Golf. I have been pleasantly surprised to be routinely getting low 50s in the hybrid. The hybrid is very responsive and the 7 speed DSG is very smooth. I wished the battery had more capacity, but so far I haven't depleted it or fully charged it. You would deplete the battery in very prolonged stop/go traffic. They really seem to have optimized efficiency and performance in the hybrid. A complaint against the hybrids has been that many do not get the EPA estimates for mpg. The bottom line is that hybrids have to be driven differently to take advantage of the electric motor. In a way I have to drive my CR appropriately to get the best mpg also. It doesn't mean being a nuisance to others on the road, but there is technique involved. After 2 fill ups, my hand calculated mpg is 52 mpg. I'll go with my Jetta TDI for long highway trips and use the hybrid primarily for work commutes, although I'll have to see how the Hybrid does on a trip down I95 to Philly.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:30   #6
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I've driven the hybrid extensively and my opinion differs quite a bit from yours. In short form, it's a joke.
The electronic brake is difficult to feather, and seems it only has two or three stages of control. It also brakes in a logarithmic fashion, so as you lightly hold down the pedal the braking force increases as you slow making judgement of where you think you're going to stop impossible and requiring multiple apply and release events. When coming to a slow stop after moving forward in traffic the computer is sometimes unsure of whether to engage or disengage the motor if you're holding the brake lightly enough and you get a back and forth jerking that you have to explain to passengers.

The big killer is, it's not more efficient than a diesel by any means and fuel consumption goes up a lot if you run the air conditioner as its powered by the 220v battery (which is very undersized and practically useless if you use ac in stop and go traffic).

Handling and power is great though, and the interior is what the jetta should have been instead of the plastic mess it is now.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 14:32   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeAvYfUeL View Post
http://cars.chicagotribune.com/fuel-...d-tdi-20130820
Is the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid needed when VW already makes a fuel-efficient Jetta TDI?
Define "needed"?

VW needs to sell high mpg cars. Consumers need options.

I was impressed with my test drive of the J hybrid. If it had been a golf I would have been very tempted.

I think the hybrid is a great city car and above average highway car. The tdi is not a very good short trip city car but an awesome highway car. Hopefully the next year model will offer a plug in version. That would have sold me.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 09:40   #8
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I wished the battery had more capacity
Odd this comes up outside of PHEVs, where the debate is over how much people are willing to tolerate the engine coming on in parallel, or in range extending series mode (simply to charge the battery). I fully understand not wanting all the on/off, or what folks complain about with stop/start tech. I just hadn't thought of how manufacturers, like Toyota, are trying more to minimize it with low capacity PHEV's, than they are trying to supplant gas/diesel, with cheaper electricity (6 mile EPA EV range in the PIP, c'mon).

That pretty much sums the war between engine equiped EV and Hybrid, that gets to different degrees of religion over what the function of an engine should be. I think A/C power drain is a fair criticism, but haven't found the brake hand-off more than detectable (I haven't tried the VW hybrid). I'm almost positive GM is evaluating whether to go with more all-battery range, or better engine assisted 0-60 times, for its next PHEVs.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 10:24   #9
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Quote:
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I just hadn't thought of how manufacturers, like Toyota, are trying more to minimize it with low capacity PHEV's, than they are trying to supplant gas/diesel, with cheaper electricity (6 mile EPA EV range in the PIP, c'mon).
6 miles was the point where the engine came on during the EPA test, not where the car ran out of EV power.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 19:24   #10
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I have owned my Jetta Hybrid SEL Premium since Feb I am now approaching 13,000 miles
I like it Don't Love it!! My Overall Average to date is 38.5 which although not what VW said it would be I do not HYPERMILE........and the lifetime average is over 5 MPG more than my TDI was!!! another reason I like it is the AFS Hids, LED Tails,Climatronic,Back up Camera,Love the wheels and the independent rear suspension which up until the 2013s you couldnt get on a TDI......And most of these you still can't ! I am now waiting for the Mark VII Sportwagen and hope it has some of those goodies!!
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:41   #11
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Actually The 2013 JSW does have independent suspension and I read somewhere that the backup camera is offered on the 2014. HID light bulbs can cost $200.00 ands are not easy to replace. The AC on the JSW is fine for me, simpler and cheaper and probably more reliable than climatronic. Wheels are a matter of personal taste. I'm probably with you on LED rear lights. Locally though premium gas is more expensive than diesel and I usually get above 40 mpg on a tank. I do better on long trips when they come along.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 13:24   #12
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Quote:
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Actually The 2013 JSW does have independent suspension and I read somewhere that the backup camera is offered on the 2014. HID light bulbs can cost $200.00 ands are not easy to replace. The AC on the JSW is fine for me, simpler and cheaper and probably more reliable than climatronic. Wheels are a matter of personal taste. I'm probably with you on LED rear lights. Locally though premium gas is more expensive than diesel and I usually get above 40 mpg on a tank. I do better on long trips when they come along.
HIDs certainly cost more to replace, but they seem to last far longer than halogen lights. Also, they are unequaled for lighting compared to existing lights. Remains to be seen how the new LED headlamps will do, but they will probably be another improvement.

I've had Climatronic in my past two cars (2006 Jetta and my Tiguan). 100% reliable, and having dual zone temp control has saved me from numerous tug-o-wars with my wife.

I know that some people prefer their cars as basic as possible. I'm happy for them, but my preference is, the more bells and whistles, the better. I hope VW can continue to support both of us.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 16:22   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfcoastguy View Post
Actually The 2013 JSW does have independent suspension and I read somewhere that the backup camera is offered on the 2014. HID light bulbs can cost $200.00 ands are not easy to replace. The AC on the JSW is fine for me, simpler and cheaper and probably more reliable than climatronic. Wheels are a matter of personal taste. I'm probably with you on LED rear lights. Locally though premium gas is more expensive than diesel and I usually get above 40 mpg on a tank. I do better on long trips when they come along.
I wasn't talking about the Jetta Sportwagen it has always has Independent rear suspension I was talking about the sedan....I owned a 2010 Sportwagen for 3+ years before buying the hybrid. I recent replaced a hid bulb on my Sons Mercedes C300 and it was simple and $100 The back up cameras are starting to get installed on all the cars!
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Old September 5th, 2013, 07:09   #14
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Quote:
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HID light bulbs can cost $200.00 ands are not easy to replace.
The HIDs in my 1er are easy to replace. In my first 118d, the right headlight failed at 90,000 km. Cost me 40 including shipping and 5 minutes work.
My current car is on the first set of bulbs now at 150,000km.

The D1S HID bulbs used in most VWs are about $40.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 19:56   #15
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Decent article. All comments posted are in the range of user potential experiences. I made a decision to trade away my TDI based on postings in these forums. Also based on some appreciation of the challenge of Mk6 technology. Reading between the lines my conclusion is that Mk6 TCO won't approach match owner expectations as the accumulated miles go north of 120k.

There was also a large shift in my driving patterns which negated owning a diesel passenger car.
The Jetta Hybrid is a car you'll either love or hate depending on your expectations. I love mine. Around town it beat my Golf TDI on fuel economy. On the highway, it is a very close second. Average fuel consumption for both vehicles is between 39 & 40 MPG. Not owning the complex multiple point of failure Mk6 clean diesel technology was my prime motivator to trade.

My cream puff Golf TDI was sold off the dealer lot in 3 days, which says a lot about TDI resale value. I got ~ $18.5k trade in allowance on a care I only paid ~ $21.5k for against basically list price on the Hybrid. Getting out from under Mk6 technology was the win in the transaction. No DPF, 1800 Bar HPFP, HP/LP EGR, etc...

Of course no one knows how reliable this complex power train will be. The permanently lubricated roller throw out bearing is an open question. Time will tell.
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