3.0TDI GenII post Emissions Modification

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
Thought it might be interesting to start a thread on Post Emissions Modification observations.

We have a '15 Q7 TDI Prestige S-Line. It was an upgrade for our '09 they bought back. Had the fix completed in Feb. So far we have noticed the following (short list format, more info below):

All out performance is hardly changed.
More lag in the throttle response under certain conditions.
Mileage has dropped around 1 point so far.
Transmissions shift points are just plain weird.
Far more regenerations.

Overall, I'd say we still like it better than the non TDI's we tried, and it's not bad enough to wish we would have passed on the $9500 and the extended warranty. They gave us a '18 2.0T Q3 loaner while it was being "fixed", and I can't imagine a Q7 with a 2.0T. That would ruin the vehicle in my opinion. We also tried a new domestic SUV between the '09 and '15 which we came to loath enough to unload and buy the '15. If we were to have a regret it would be not keeping the '09 and the $11K for having it fixed, but we're still satisfied with the '15.

The more info:
It seems there might be a small decrease in WOT performance, but rough 0-60 times don't indicate that. My sons love doing 0-60 times and before and after are right around 8 sec's. (I know, I'm teaching them bad habits I will likely regret later since they are not driving age yet.) So, the difference is in the tolerance of a 12 yr old operating the stop watch.

The intermittent lag in throttle response is the most frustrating. It's similar to the VW B5.5's, only worse. Once in a while it decides to hesitate then it launches like it's been prodded. This is especially bad if you get on it right after letting off. (I know, I know, you shouldn't drive it that way, but sometimes in traffic you just have to.)

It will take a few more tanks to really determine mileage impact, but on two fills it seems to be around 1 point lower.

The change in shift points is hard to explain. Before it seemed the transmission always upshifted too soon and downshifted too late, but it was easy to get used to, and overcome with throttle angle. Now it seems to be a little shifty about shift timing. Sometimes it seems better, others it hangs way too long with a harsh shift, and others it jumps the shift. This is both in upshift and downshift. The rapid changes in throttle sometimes required in rush hour city driving seem to confuse it the most. It's not really bad; some may not even notice it. Having rebuilt and upgraded THM's for budget street rodders, I'm a little more perceptive to shift timing and quality.

Before the change we never really noticed a regeneration (in either the '09 or the '15). Now since the change at least five times after getting out it smelled very hot and the fan was running. I have not had a chance to look at the regeneration status with VCDS to know for sure, but it seems to me regens are being interrupted.

I'm very interested in what others have observed.
 

Mythdoc

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Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
^^ Nice, thorough report. You will find many more such reports in the Dieselgate section of this forum. Yours is consistent with the others, except for a few cars that experienced errors of some kind and a few owners who are apt to be angry and complain.
 

BarryT82

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Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Location
Charleston, WV
TDI
‘12 JSW TDI
I’ve noticed a lot of regenerations in both of my Q5’s. After a cold start it seems to idle high and burn a lot of DEF as well. I have a stage 2 tune on mine and my wife has the Chipwerke Pro on hers. After installing the tune it still warms up faster than it did before the fix and the transmission shifts as it did after the fix, but it’s not jerking like it did shifting from 2nd to 3rd. The fuel economy hasn’t increased with the Chipwerke module, but it’s increased significantly with the tune.
 

BigChiefS4

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Location
Hopkins, MN
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI
I just bought a '14 Q5 TDI with 103K on the clock. Sometimes when I'm driving around and I stop, I smell burning rubber. Is that the regen process?

I also get two codes thrown on a regular basis, sometimes daily. Do either of these have anything to do with the regen?

U040F Invalid data received from reductant control module
P202C Reductant tank heater control circuit high.

I'm new to TDI's but so far I love this thing. I've put just over 10K on it and have yet to refill the AdBlue tank. Or, at least, I'm not getting any warnings to refill it.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
If your fan is running and the car is throwing heat when you stop, you had a regen underway. The car will attempt another and another until it is able to complete. That takes about 20 minutes when the car is going at a good clip.

The codes are for sure emissions related. Do you have a check engine light or not? I’d keep a record of the codes until one comes on.
 

BigChiefS4

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Location
Hopkins, MN
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI
Yes, the CEL comes on. I have a Bluetooth OBD-II reader and an old Android phone with DashCommand on it. That is where I'm getting the codes from. I can read and then clear the codes with that app. I use it mostly to monitor my gas mileage.
 

Mythdoc

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Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
^^I’d bring it to Audi since they are required to fix any errors underlying those codes under the settlement extended warranty.
 

HMBJack

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Location
Half Moon Bay California
TDI
Audi Q5
2014 Q5 TDI. Had the emissions modification completed in February.

My main observation is the smell of rotten eggs (sulfur) at every start up. Goes away when the engine gets hot but it's there every time. You can smell it with windows up or down.

Anyone else smell this? Any solution? Thanks
 

Tsch125

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 Q7 Premium Plus
Surging at low speeds under light throttle

Anyone notice a jerky surging in 1st-3rd gear (not a hard shift) at cold start under light throttle? Dealer tells me there’s nothing wrong, no fault codes, etc. They say this behavior is “inherent to the modification”, but I haven’t read anyone here experiencing the same problem. It frustrates me, to say the least. :confused:
 
Last edited:

BigChiefS4

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Location
Hopkins, MN
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI
Anyone notice a jerky surging in 1st-3rd gear (not a hard shift) at cold start under light acceleration? Dealer tells me there’s nothing wrong, no fault codes, etc. They say this behavior is “inherent to the modification”, but I haven’t read anyone here experiencing the same problem. It frustrates me, to say the least. :confused:
Yes, as I'm leaving the parking lot at work, it does that, but only for a short time. A block, at the very most.
 

Tsch125

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 Q7 Premium Plus
Yes, as I'm leaving the parking lot at work, it does that, but only for a short time. A block, at the very most.
Where was yours repaired? Had mine done at Audi St Paul in Maplewood. Less than impressed by the professionalism of multiple employees.
 

BigChiefS4

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Location
Hopkins, MN
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI
Where was yours repaired? Had mine done at Audi St Paul in Maplewood. Less than impressed by the professionalism of multiple employees.
I purchased it from the same dealer, post-repair, on Valentine's Day. Traded in my 2010 Q5 3.2. Couldn't be happier.

The only dealer in town I won't ever go to is Carousel Audi. I've never had a bad experience at Maplewood.
 

Tsch125

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 Q7 Premium Plus
Bought mine at Audi Mpls Feb 2017 (formerly called Carousel). No issue with their sales dept.
Fix done at Maplewood, so only have experienced their service dept.
As far as I know, both are owned by Carousel Group.
 

BigChiefS4

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Location
Hopkins, MN
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI
Bought mine at Audi Mpls Feb 2017 (formerly called Carousel). No issue with their sales dept.
Fix done at Maplewood, so only have experienced their service dept.
As far as I know, both are owned by Carousel Group.
Yeah, they're both owned by the same people, the Pohlad's. The service is MUCH better at Maplewood, IMHO. Richfield Audi is owned by someone completely different.
 

Tsch125

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 Q7 Premium Plus
I am super frustrated about the situation. I test drove a used 2014 Q7 TDI from their lot tonight and it didn't do what mine does. They said there's nothing wrong with mine ("no faults in ECM or TCM") and nothing they can do about it. I think they just don't know what to do but I feel like something's still not right. Likely not their fault, maybe they don't get good support from corporate. That was the sense I got in January when I had the fix completed.
Anyone else have anything to weigh in with? Suggestions?
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
On our '15 I've noticed some surging at slow speed when alternating between coasting and very light power. Leaving our neighborhood there's a slight grade that's too steep for continual power, but not steep enough to coast or require brakes. I have not noticed it with constant slight power. It's my wife's car so I'll ask her. BTW, do you notice the lag in throttle response if you have to get into it right after letting off?
 

Pittdawg

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
I've posted this a few times now but I just installed a Sprintbooster on my Q5 TDI and it really helps speed up and smooth out the throttle response (i.e. much more linear).
 

Tsch125

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 Q7 Premium Plus
Sorry for the late reply but my issue was resolved by simply resetting the throttle/transmission by myself. It took all of 20 seconds! Still baffled the dealer did not suggest or perform this simple procedure.
 

RebelTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
My 2016 Q5 TDI had the emissions a few months ago and we probably put around 1000 miles on it. DPF light came on yesterday. Taking it in today. About 37K on the odometer. Perhaps a sensor gone bad? We'll see...
 

mike

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Location
New England
TDI
2015 Q5 Tdi, RIP 2003 Jetta GLS 5sp
Rebel, how did you make out?
What dealer?
Looking for a Boston area dealer who can do my emissions fix.
 

RebelTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
No word yet from dealer. My wife drives the Q5 most of the time, which winds up being a bunch of short trips. If these cars do more regens post emissions fix, i suspect the DPF light is going to come on more frequently. The light eventually went off, so I suspect it just needed a long drive to finish the regen. I wonder if they'll be able to tell me the ash load in the DPF when I pick it up.
 

RebelTDI

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Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
Rebel, how did you make out?
What dealer?
Looking for a Boston area dealer who can do my emissions fix.
It's at Westwood Audi. They treat me very well, always provide a loaner, and do good work.
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
As a point of reference, our Q7 right after the mod had interrupted regens frequently. We're talking a few times a week. Now (8 mo later) they are far less frequent. Maybe once a month. Prior to the mod none. We never knew when it did a regen. Hope it works out well for you.
 

RebelTDI

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Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
Well, no problems found, which is good. I think my solution will be to take the Q to work once a week. With an hour commute each way that should provide plenty of time for a regen. Cheers!
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
Good to hear! Driving them more is always a good thing. It's also best to not baby them. Our first Q7 we bought used. It would throw a NOx sensor code regularly, but after driving it for a while, (often aggressively) it never came back until Audi bought it back. Similiar experience with my 2005 Passat, but it was limp mode. Bottom line: enjoy it!
 

ivoking

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
2015 Audi A6
I am super frustrated about the situation. I test drove a used 2014 Q7 TDI from their lot tonight and it didn't do what mine does. They said there's nothing wrong with mine ("no faults in ECM or TCM") and nothing they can do about it. I think they just don't know what to do but I feel like something's still not right. Likely not their fault, maybe they don't get good support from corporate. That was the sense I got in January when I had the fix completed.
Anyone else have anything to weigh in with? Suggestions?
I am having similar issues, the one on the lot has probably had the adaptations reset recently so drives better.

I loved my A6 since buying it, the torque, responsiveness and fuel economy were outstanding. For background purposes, I lived in Cincinnati for the 2 years I owned it at first. Last May, I was in process of moving to Denver, CO. 2 days before the move, I got the "fix" done, in Cincinnati, and didn't really get to drive the car much before loading it on the back of the truck to Denver.

When I arrived here in Denver, and driving for a few days, I could tell something was off. Things got progressively worse as the car became a completely different car. It has zero power after depressing the gas pedal (esp when coming out of a turn), then 3-4 sec later, when it is already too late, it gives too much power after revving up and becomes almost hard to control. It hesitates and feels jerky (engine surges) when first started and at low RPMs in gears 2-3. Pulling out in front of traffic is a gamble every day as you are hoping for power to kick in. My wife refuses to drive my car because of the way it behaves now.

I took the issue up with Audi of America last Summer. They asked me to go to a dealer and have it checked for problems. I went to Audi Denver and they found no fault codes, although one service person told me in confidence that they are having a lot of issues with these "fixed" 3-liters around here. But surprisingly the car drove relatively fine for a day after getting it back from the dealer. Few days later problems resurfaced. I didn't have time to mess with the situation then and Audi of America closed their case. In the meantime both oxygen sensors went out (at different times), covered under the extended warranty, and both times it went to the dealer, it drove much better for a day after getting it back. Recently I was at Audi Denver for the 45k mi service, and following it I decided to go to an independent Audi mechanic near my house for advice. They drove the car and said - a car should not drive like this and altitude cannot be blamed for this behavior. He did go ahead and "reset adaptations on the engine and transmission" which seemed to fix the problems. Again it drove well for a day and problems re-appeared and continued to get worse after the engine and transmissions were given time to "re-learn" whatever the hell they are learning with driving.

Finally I just contacted Audi of America again for advice and help, although I doubt any will be forthcoming. The rep will do some research and get back to me in a few days. I would happily give back the $ to get the old car back. Without hesitation. But that is not an option, obviously. I am also hesitant to lose the extended warranty at this point because what they did to these things seems like a situation begging for major problems to appear down the road. For example, part of the "fix" was installing a new oxygen sensor, according to the booklet, which for me was May 2018. Since then I have had both front and back O2 sensors go out (one in November 2018, another in December 2018).

Any advice on what one should do here? Has Audi helped anyone in this type of situation before? Is there a tune of sort available that could help me, yet not void the extended warranty? Should I contact an attorney as I feel like I have been outright cheated with their promise of "the potential change in sound will not result in any noticeable changes to the driving characteristics of your vehicle". This is an outright lie in my experience. I don't care about decreased fuel economy, I don't care about revving higher before shifting during warm up, but I do care about car being an absolute piece of crap to drive. This past weekend I looked into trading it in, but am currently being offered sub $20k for it! Not a financial hit I am willing to take at this time. I can't sell it to another individual locally as it would not be fair.

Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.
 

Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
Any advice on what one should do here? Has Audi helped anyone in this type of situation before? Is there a tune of sort available that could help me, yet not void the extended warranty? Should I contact an attorney as I feel like I have been outright cheated with their promise of "the potential change in sound will not result in any noticeable changes to the driving characteristics of your vehicle". This is an outright lie in my experience. I don't care about decreased fuel economy, I don't care about revving higher before shifting during warm up, but I do care about car being an absolute piece of crap to drive. This past weekend I looked into trading it in, but am currently being offered sub $20k for it! Not a financial hit I am willing to take at this time. I can't sell it to another individual locally as it would not be fair.
Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.
A google search tells me you have diesel emissions in Colorado. Doing a delete of the system is then out of the question for you. Secondly, I just got a custom tune performed. I had a free audi care checkup. I was also testing the water to see if they would find the tune or not. Well they did. I knew they probably would, but I can't make use of the warranty anymore. Something I knew before doing the tune and was willing to accept. Not mad at all but glad I know how it would work out if something were to arise.

-Option 1 would be to stay on Audi to fix this under the warranty program.
-Option 2 say goodbye to the warranty, and get the car tuned and worked on by an independent shop. Which means you are footing the bill on everything.
-Look into the lemon laws as a third though outlandish idea?
 

ivoking

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
2015 Audi A6
-Option 1 would be to stay on Audi to fix this under the warranty program.
-Option 2 say goodbye to the warranty, and get the car tuned and worked on by an independent shop. Which means you are footing the bill on everything.
-Look into the lemon laws as a third though outlandish idea?
Thank you. Between 1 and 2, I am currently leaning toward 1 as I am too cheap to foot the bill for a car this expensive to fix. If that doesn't work, I don't know what I will do... probably keep driving it and grumble about it every single day. :(
 
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