EA288 - A diesel way forward?

andyrooski17

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Sep 23, 2014
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Newton, MA
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2015 Golf TDI SE DSG
The crying and whining in some of these threads is ridiculous....
I agree with Shife. All hand-wringing aside, It *seems* like we are going to be compensated for loss in value.

My hope for this forum, if not this particular thread, is to keep concrete discussion going as more details are announced. E.g., What's the fix? How bad is it? What's the additional fuel expense based on observed fuel economy change (if any)?

The more level heads we keep, the more informed we will all be when it comes to make the decision: sell, fix, or hold.
 

Shife

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As with all things in life, Caddyshack provides the model forward: Judge Smails demanded satisfaction. Al Cervik offered cash, and there was much rejoicing.
 

J.R.

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Vancouver
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2017 Sportwagon TDI?
I agree with Shife. All hand-wringing aside, It *seems* like we are going to be compensated for loss in value.
My hope for this forum, if not this particular thread, is to keep concrete discussion going as more details are announced. E.g., What's the fix? How bad is it? What's the additional fuel expense based on observed fuel economy change (if any)?
The more level heads we keep, the more informed we will all be when it comes to make the decision: sell, fix, or hold.
As a future, hopeful owner, that's why I keep coming back here :D
 

Sunnyb

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MI
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The crying and whining in some of these threads is ridiculous. The values will bounce back. My wife doesn't even remember there was any "scandal" and we own one of these things. Apart from some rabid enthusiasts with a giant entitlement mentality and some other enthusiasts who just enjoy driving these things, nobody cares. Nobody cares at all outside of the enthusiast crowd. It's a blip in the media and then it's gone until there's another nugget for them to sensationalize. Keep in mind that the NOx output on these cars was completely within legal limits about 8 years ago and the rest of their emissions is much cleaner than most of the gas vehicles on the road, including the extremely dirty small direct injected GTDI models that are dominating the market. VAG mucked things up, but so has every single other automaker on the planet, and they sure as hell won't be the last to pull a stunt like this.

I couldn't of said it better myself.

Somebody posted a while back that they felt sorry for the 2015 owners after the scandal hit. It might just turn out that we get the best deal out of it. If I get another 5k from VW, my SE will only have cost me like 22K.
 

Shife

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I couldn't of said it better myself.

Somebody posted a while back that they felt sorry for the 2015 owners after the scandal hit. It might just turn out that we get the best deal out of it. If I get another 5k from VW, my SE will only have cost me like 22K.
They keep giving me money back for a car that makes me smile every single time I drive it. It's fabulous.

In other news, Mitsubishi just admitted to lying about fuel economy tests for the past 25 years or so..
 

jjm

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Maine
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2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE; 2017 Golf TSI Wolfsburg (replaced 2012 Golf Hatch (Bought back by VW)
As a future, hopeful owner, that's why I keep coming back here :D
Have there been any recent updates about whether or not the 2016 TDI's (and subsequently the 2017s as well) will be released for sale? If I were to take the buyback on my 2012 Golf, a new TDI would get serious consideration.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Springfield, VA
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Have there been any recent updates about whether or not the 2016 TDI's (and subsequently the 2017s as well) will be released for sale? If I were to take the buyback on my 2012 Golf, a new TDI would get serious consideration.
No new information on anything, including the status of 2016s.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I asked my local dealer owner this question last week, no word. He said he's waiting for June, just like everyone else.
 

Perfectreign

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Jul 20, 2013
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Los Angeles
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2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Unfortunately, the ea189 fiasco will probably really set diesel back enough to allow high efficient gas and hybrids to put the nail in the coffin here in the US
You're probably right. This issue - along with Elon Musk supposedly producing a $30K long-range electric - will surely cause people to wonder why they'd pay an extra $5K or so for a diesel. Even my wife's 2015 Passat TSI with the 1.8t gets around 35 MPG combined. No, it isn't diesel numbers but she pays way less.
 

panda

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I'm worried about the future of diesels from VW. They are a corporation and the reason they exist is to make a profit for their shareholders. Diesel vehicles no matter how good and the new EA288 is a very good diesel ain't making that happen. Due to the numbers their problem in Europe may be worse (more expensive) than in the US. How much financial pain will the corporation endure before they throw in the towel. With oil prices as low as they are those people that don't "care" are buying SUV's. I'm not sure I want to be one of the "lucky" ones holding an orphaned 2015 GSW. I've already got a Jeep CRD and another VW diesel in my driveway.
 

Shife

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For those of you who think this debacle is anything more than a speed bump for VAG, I believe you need a history lesson:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobil...-infamous-automotive-scandals.html/?a=viewall

That is but a small list of the hundreds of examples of auto companies behaving badly.

....and the "diesel is dead" crowd might want to pass the note on to GM, because they are putting a diesel back in the Cruze for the 2017 model year.
 
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panda

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....and the "diesel is dead" crowd might want to pass the note on to GM, because they are putting a diesel back in the Cruze for the 2017 model year.
The wisdom of GM? I rest my case. They've been a decade late and a billion dollars late for a long, long time.
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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2015 JETTA TDI SE
The wisdom of GM? I rest my case. They've been a decade late and a billion dollars late for a long, long time.
And you can't believe it till the car actually shows up...
It was here....they say it coming back...
But low fuel prices...bad press for diesel ...who knows...
Remember when Mazda and Honda were both bringing diesel to the US ....and it was rumored with MINI , aka little BMW , that the same would happen....
But has it...nope...
Think if the training, parts, and infrastructure needed for a maker to support a limited number of cars with a unique motor....
VW has been able to keep critical mass with the same motor in multiple models.....
Others makers have always backed off....gotten scred ...Nd canceled...risk vs reward calculation . Simple business. They crunch the numbers....and don't bring the car to market due to demand vs the $$$ to do so and what folks are willing to pay.
 

ZippyNH

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You may be living in a different decade...but GM is first to market on many fronts.
First to kill customers with bad ignition switches....
First to be called government motors....ok..maybe Chrysler did that in the 80's...but you get my point?
Sure...its not all bad....but the old days of "if it's good for GM it good for the USA are long gone...and frankly, what do they have that is compelling? Mostly bland...sure a few decent cars, but they lead on volume in segments based on availability and price....not on quality or consumer preference....

Going back to the ea-288, I was Amazed such a high tech diesel engine was being sold for so little $$ vs the older ones....figured it was a first year thing...with $$$ to increase in subsequent years....
Frankly that's why I got the 2015 rather than waiting a year for them to work the bugs out...figured a 20% price increase for the diesel version might be coming...
Now...I don't think the market would support a price increase, and I don't think he has the desire to fight....if they can't break even at the least, and they are trying to make themselves look better by saying they will make electrica cars....makes me think diesel will be sacrificed pretty fast...
 

squeegee_boy

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Dec 9, 2003
Location
Denali, AK
No new information on anything, including the status of 2016s.
I've been periodically checking the automotive classified pages for 2015 Golf Wagons. For several months, there has been absolutely nothing on the market Suddenly (in the last three weeks) there are suddenly upwards of 37 three pedal TDI SEL wagons for sale, and over 1600 generic 2015 TDI wagons for sale. Are they suddenly on the market, or are dealers collectively trying to build a call list for when the vehicles are reintroduced?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I traded emails with the owner of our local dealer on Friday. He said he's heard nothing about the '15 TDIs he has on the lot. But he does have a list of interested people if they are released for sale. And yes, I'm on it.
 

ZippyNH

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I traded emails with the owner of our local dealer on Friday. He said he's heard nothing about the '15 TDIs he has on the lot. But he does have a list of interested people if they are released for sale. And yes, I'm on it.
I have been very happy with 2015....
Hopefully you cann get one....the EA-288 tq band seems to be a bit wider and flatter....makes cruising on the highway nice. Mine just eats the miles .....and if you are on secondary roads doing 50-60 mph, the mpg's are amazing....doing 50+.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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the EA-288 tq band seems to be a bit wider and flatter....makes cruising on the highway nice. Mine just eats the miles .....and if you are on secondary roads doing 50-60 mph, the mpg's are amazing....doing 50+.
Unless you've driven a modified rotary pump TDI. Tons of torque, great highway response, and I've gotten 50 MPG on my last two tanks, including time at 80+ on the highway.
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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Unless you've driven a modified rotary pump TDI. Tons of torque, great highway response, and I've gotten 50 MPG on my last two tanks, including time at 80+ on the highway.
Agreed....but ac on, going 72-73 it will still do it cruise on going up and down i-93.....can still do 50 mpg in my daily commute running opposite rush-hour to Mass most trips...but getting a true 50+, and NOT taking it easy on hills, not using cruise, using the brakes, not trying to drive for mpg's and having fun is great.
Biggest difference is the newer cars have lots of unseen add-ons...cheaper in some ways, perhaps, but airbags, stability control, etc...makes for a much more modern ride...and a few pounds of safety add-ons.....
Loved my 89 Honda CRX HF, but in a moden highway, not sure it was the safest....and as the simpler pre-2000 cars disappear, I do miss the simple designs (no tpms, etc), but can say I appreciate the modern items that are unseen that can help keep me alive in an unexpected situation.....
I just hope they start selling the 15+ TDI cars....if they do, I will likly keep mine...
But if they don't, I think I might run...lest the few months of 2015 on the road become unique cars with hard to find parts and expertise to fix.....
 
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adjat84th

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Dec 13, 2008
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Virginia Beach, VA
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My modified '01 ALH still feels more lively with more instant torque at lower speeds than the '15 with stage 2 eco tune. I really do love both cars though! The '15 seems to get better fuel economy with the a/c on than the '01 does, you just never feel that it's on. I've yet to get a tank below 50mpg after my exhaust upgrade on the '15, but I do 90-95% highway driving and a lot of that is 55-65mph zones.
I wouldn't say I'm too worried if the '15/'16s don't get to be sold here as far as repairs and replacement parts since they're still for sale everywhere else, and I do 90% of my own maintenance/repairs. The thought of keeping it as a cult collectible if they're not for sale again is a neat idea I think and I'd need to stop driving it so much! I'm already at 35k miles and bought with 17k back in January.
 

LongEz

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Texas
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None yet
My dealer has implied that he can now look at stock and is working to get me a 2016 TDi. This implies that the plan is to sell at least the stock they have at the port in the US.

I am somewhat concerned about two things.

1) a car that may have been sitting for quite a while.
2) a car with an unknown reprogramming effects

That being said, it's the car I want, and I'm afraid it may not be offered in the future.

Thoughts?

LongEz
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
My dealer has implied that he can now look at stock and is working to get me a 2016 TDi. This implies that the plan is to sell at least the stock they have at the port in the US.
Let us know how that goes. I wouldn't count on getting a '16.
 

sapgar

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Let us know how that goes. I wouldn't count on getting a '16.
I'd tend to agree. First, I spoke with a dealer in Denver last week. They said VW picked up all the 16s they had on the lot and took them back to port. Second, there's a pretty good article by Bloomberg News that provides a sneak peek into the buy back process moving forward. The process of buy vs. fix could take at least two years, and then there's still no agreed upon fix identified. Usually, everyone assumes that's just for the 189 TDIs. However, there's no proof that the new gen diesel with SCR is compliant with US specs in real world driving either... and you can bet that will be tested. Seems to be an issue over in Europe. At the end of the day, smog is from real world driving.
 

thesearcherman

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Richmond,Va.
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I'd tend to agree. First, I spoke with a dealer in Denver last week. They said VW picked up all the 16s they had on the lot and took them back to port. Second, there's a pretty good article by Bloomberg News that provides a sneak peek into the buy back process moving forward. The process of buy vs. fix could take at least two years, and then there's still no agreed upon fix identified. Usually, everyone assumes that's just for the 189 TDIs. However, there's no proof that the new gen diesel with SCR is compliant with US specs in real world driving either... and you can bet that will be tested. Seems to be an issue over in Europe. At the end of the day, smog is from real world driving.
I am not implying anything. However, it would be interesting to see an emission report on a 2014,15 Chevy Cruze diesel, and new Ford, Dodge, and Chevy diesel pickups. Has anybody seen one? Will Chevy still sell a Cruze Diesel in the US next year?
 

jayp111

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Undisclosed location
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n/a
My dealer has implied that he can now look at stock and is working to get me a 2016 TDi. This implies that the plan is to sell at least the stock they have at the port in the US.

I am somewhat concerned about two things.

1) a car that may have been sitting for quite a while.
2) a car with an unknown reprogramming effects

That being said, it's the car I want, and I'm afraid it may not be offered in the future.

Thoughts?

LongEz
The sport wagons are one of the most popular/successful models that VW has come up with

I wouldnt expect that to go away.....nor do I see diesel vw's going away either....VW diesels will simply return to the smaller niche that it was circa 2006

Still a profitable car for VW going forwards.....VWoA knows that without the TDI the vast majority of customers will NOT purchase a gasser or hypebrid version of a VW.....not happenening ever for me and I suspect that the majority of folks who have owned 1 or more TDI's in past.
 
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J.R.

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Vancouver
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2017 Sportwagon TDI?
The sport wagons are one of the most popular/successful models that VW has come up with

I wouldnt expect that to go away.....nor do I see diesel vw's going away either....VW diesels will simply return to the smaller niche that it was circa 2006

Still a profitable car for VW going forwards.....VWoA knows that without the TDI the vast majority of customers will NOT purchase a gasser or hypebrid version of a VW.....not happenening ever for me and I suspect that the majority of folks who have owned 1 or more TDI's in past.
Yup, I want to buy one largely for the motor. No TDI and I'll be looking elsewhere.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Where else are you going to get a wagon with a manual transmission? GSW is the only one in the US.
 
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