Help! VW can't fix engine FINAL UPDATE!!!

Help! VW can\'t fix engine FINAL UPDATE!!!

Okay, for those of you who don't remember... About two months ago, my brother got into an accident in his '03 Golf TDI. He was on a 4 lane road in the city and someone cut across all 4 lanes so they could get into Denny's without having to make a U-turn. Well, my bro's car was in their blind spot and he didn't even have time to react. He hit the driver's side rear quarter of their full size puckup truck hard enough to make the truck do a 360º turn and separate one of the tires from the rim. All of the damage to my bro's car was on the front passenger side corner.

He pulled into Denny's and I came to pick him up. Here's what I saw: There was a good amount of damage to the fender, hood, bumper and grille. The intercooler was still intact. It was not losing coolant. However, the engine had thrown the serpentine belt because the engine had shifted and was rubbing against the intake pipe (the upper one on the pass. side). The car was towed to the body shop.

After fighting with the insurance company for a month, he got the 'OK' to start work. The body shop did a wonderful job of fixing the damage. However, about a week ago they called and said all body work was finished, but the engine didn't run right. They said it smoked like hell and seemed like it was running on 3 cylinders. Now, keep in mind that this is a Mercedes specialist body shop, so if it's smoking and running rough compared to the old diesel Mercedes they work on, you know it's bad! I didn't have time to get there with my Vag-Com before they sent it off to the VW dealership.

This morning, my bro got a call from the body shop. VW cannot figure out the problem. First, they suspected that the timing belt slipped. They pulled the head and couldn't find any damage. Now they suspect that a rod is bent due to over-revving. My brother does not over rev his car. It's probably never seen 4k RPM. The car absolutely did not over rev during or after the accident. VW is bringing in a regional rep to look at it. The insurance company is saying that this was a pre-existing problem and will not pay for it. They say VW should fix it under warranty.

Does anyone have any insight? Should I go to the dealership and see if there are any DTCs? I would think that they have already pulled any codes and cleared them. Any help would be very much appreciated.

My brother bought his TDI last October, and it's been in the body shop for three months! You know that sucks!

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

The insurance is a bunch of bullsh1 tters... what NEW car has "pre-existing" conditions to THAT extent. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Why would VW fix something that was due to the accident... insurance should foot the bill. If you get any grief from the insurance co, get yourself a lawyer. They lose and they pay ALL your court costs as well! bastards!! Pay insurance like a poor sap and then they deny you what's righfully yours /images/graemlins/mad.gif Worse case scenario, get the bank to reposess the car, and the bank will sue the insurance company for the damage. Battle of the giants /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As for your problem, I'm sure it's something simple... nothing mechanical, it's just that someone forgot to hook up a vacuum hose or something silly like that.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

The wiring for the MAP (Manifold Air pressure and Boost temperature sensor) is down along that side of the car. On the intercooler topside, the MAP plugs in there and if there is a wiring issue or the possibility there is a leak in the induction system this is what you can get. I would bet the guys are getting a code that says "Impluasible signal" or something that is not cot and dry.


-Inspect ALL wiring down in that side of the car
-See if the engine mount had to be removed
-Inspect the MAP wiring ALL the way back to where it plugs into the main harness

DB

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

You may need a lawyer. /images/graemlins/mad.gif I think you have to go back to the insurance company and explain to them that the engine was shifted during the accident and that the car was not smoking like a locomotive before this happened. Was the car smoking when the insurance company initially looked at it? Probably not, bring that up as well. Use common sense with your argument and you will prevail. Why would your brother have been driving a car that was smoking like a freight train before this accident? Why would he not have taken it to the dealer prior to the accident? Why did the insurance adjuster not notice this? Why didn't the body shop notice this when they took the estimate? If all of this is new to you, I think your problem may lie with the body shop. They could have damaged something while they were fixing something else. The body shop is pulling the classic, "Send it to the dealer" trick. They did this with me as well on my 98 bug. They broke a simple 5 dollar window switch and told me to bring it to the dealer. They were the ones that broke it too. I would have to say you need to put pressure, a lot of it, on the insurance company and also the body shop. You are going to have a real tough time if you go the VW route, because the car was in an accident. So you have a "pre-existing" problem. This is an insurance, body shop problem. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

DBW, thanks for the input. My bro is going up to the dealership today to take a look and get their story. I'll have him look at the MAP wiring.

PS, the body shop is run by one of my father's friends. They have done lots of work for us (my whole family) for many years, so I don't think they are trying to pull one over on my brother. I think it's a case of a service department that doesn't know what they are doing. That being said, it could be a really complex problem. My father is currently working on a 350SDL that runs really rough for no apparent reason. The owner thought for sure it was the injection pump. My father told him that the injection pump was fine. Customer insisted. $2k later the engine still runs like crap, but has a shiny new injection pump!

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

[ QUOTE ]
-See if the engine mount had to be removed

[/ QUOTE ]

DB, what will this tell us?

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

You want to figure out what all was touched.

If they did not remove it then it points back to a simple wiring issue.

Now that the dealer messed with it...all bets are off and more than likely they just took a simple problem, added their inability to work on the car and now you have several more problems.

I think you need to get somebody that knows TDI's over to the dealer and have them reset the cam timing, pump timing and inspect the wiring to the MAP.

Remind them that the ECU limits the maximum RPM under all conditions to 5100rpm 2,000 rpm below that of the 2.0 or 1.8T redline that has nearly the same bore and stroke...THEY ARE FULL OF $HIT about bent rods!

DB

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

[ QUOTE ]
Drivbiwire said:

Remind them that the ECU limits the maximum RPM under all conditions to 5100rpm 2,000 rpm below that of the 2.0 or 1.8T redline that has nearly the same bore and stroke...THEY ARE FULL OF $HIT about bent rods!

DB

[/ QUOTE ]
This is totally awesome.....you should remind these morons this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

You have not said who's insurance carrier is paying. Yours or the truck drivers? You can make the claim back against your insurance, pay your deductible and then they subrogate against the other carrier. Claims adjusters have pre determined numbers they have for claims and when they go over them they can get in varying degrees of hot water depending on the company. Let me know. I was in the biz for a long time and know claims inside and out.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Okay... latest news from VW. The opened everything up and found two bent rods. Also, it appears that the intercooler was damaged (cracked) along with a few other odds and ends. I don't have the whole list in front of me... I got this second hand through my brother. The total estimate is about $7,000.

As of this moment, the other guy's insurance company is not going to pay for the engine repairs. The body work was already covered by them, but only after they tried hard not to pay anything. It was already about $6,000 or so in body work... if they had known about the engine problems, it would have been totalled for sure.

Looks like it's time to get a lawyer. Any suggestions?

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Hey, that really sucks... sorry to hear about the car.

A few things I've learned from myself + friends being in accidents (and extended family mum being in insurace /images/graemlins/grin.gif ) is:

i. never speak to the other company or the other driver - some, I don't think it's as common anymore, but some, policies state (in tiny, tiny print) that divuldging information can quash your insurance companies responsibility.

ii. The claim is not done until both parties agree - so if something's not right, don't sign anything, don't agree to anything (though this can be a pain in your own butt, however eventually they'll give in if you b**ch daily to them /images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

iii. You can append your claim (generally, check your policy) at a later date. So if you have agreed to anything and you find other damage, you can take it to your company and get it covered as a part of the original accident - the trick here is you have to prove it was a part of the accident, which considering your scenario, they seem to be rather dinky about it..

iv. Companies hate legal tie-ups! If they won't believe you re: didn't smoke before the accident, then ask how they plan to prove it did in front of legal council, because their word vs. rational thought (i.e. - why would I be driving it? why is there no documentation of these problems? etc..) likely won't hold up. They may choose to just settle with you.

As for the VW dealership, who knows what they're making up, it's sad that shops will take ridiculous advantage when the insurance company is paying the bill - which then creates a problem because the company of course sees a big bill and wants to find excuses... I had a scenario where I got a quote for nearly $5000 for some bumper damage etc.. on an Accord I had, funny enough, when I said it was outta my pocket and I couldn't afford that, the quote changed down to (I kid you not) only about $2200. Depending on what the VW dealership knows, maybe worthwhile to suggest that insurance if on the fence about paying, so you may have to pay yourself, and ask what they can do if that happens? See if they change their response.

Hope it works out for your bro though, dealing with insurance is always a pain in the butt. /images/graemlins/frown.gif From my experience though, keep on your agent (or whoever your contact is) about "this isn't right", "this isn't right", "what's being done about this", "why isn't this being done", "please point out where it says that" eventually it'll get done.
-- Adam

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

DB, VW dealer says the only way the rods could be bent is hydrolocking or over-revving. It was obviously not hydrolocked. Where can I get that 5,100 RPM limit info in writing? My bro is headed back over to the dealership, and this might be good info to have.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

I am almost positive the ecu prevents the motor from reviing above 5100rpms.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

GET the Auto BBB involved before laying out money to some Lawer (who is as bad as the stealership) who only wants your money, The insurance co has already accepted it is their fault, play hard ball with them. BTW there are sources for new complete engines for under 3500$. ALso call the insurance commission in your state and file a claim. The commission can make the insurance Co Pay.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Like I said. Save the lawer/money. Get your insurance company involved. Pay the $500 deductible. Let them go after him and his company. That's what they are there for. They will get the car fixed right away and you will not be effected by this. It is a not-at-fault claim.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

[ QUOTE ]
POWERSTROKE said:
I am almost positive the ecu prevents the motor from reviing above 5100rpms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if for some reason the car was hit hard enough for the transmission to shift, it did if the the engine got hit and could have easily caused it to jam into a low gear and with the clutch out would easily cause an overrev. The ECU can't stop the drivetrain, just your foot.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

He already paid his deductible. F**k that. Make the insurance company pay. This was caused by the accident. why should you have to pay another $500? If you want to give cash away, send some to good 'ol POWERSTROKE. Seriously though, the insurance has to pay this. On another note, I know this shop is your fathers friend, but they did a poor estimation on actual damages when they originally looked at the car, as well as the insurance company. I mean, in all honesty, I think that something happened when they were fixing the car. I don't know what happened, but that is my idea on the course of events. Didn't you say originally that the motor was running properly, and that it was just offcentered? How did the bodyshop overlook a cracked intercooler at the very least. The unfortunate thing is that if the shop and the insurance freaks did their job properly the first time, this car would have been totalled and your brother could have had a brand new one. I am sorry about this unfortunate turn of events. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif I think I would fix this car and sell it if it were mine.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

He did not pay his deductible. The other carrier is fixing it. They balk, then it becomes a question of how long you want to sit without the car. When you carrier wins in subrogation they will recover your deductible too. But, only to the extent of the recovery. They get 70% you get 70%. Sucks, but thems the way of the insurance world. Oh, did I mention it could take up to 3 years to settle? There are a lot of "cheap" companies out there. Why do you think they are so cheap? They refuse to pay or settle for .30 on the dollar.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

I don't think the ECU had any control over it at this point...

If the car were in gear and experienced a severe outside force that caused the speed of the car to either increase or decrease suddenly (really suddenly, and by a significant amount), I could see rods getting bent. I'd think the possibility would be higher in a manual than with an automatic.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

What a sham. Get rid of that car when it is done McBrew.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

The car was running fine (only 24k miles on it) until the accident. The serpentine belt was ripped off in the accident, so no power steering, etc... My brother just drove the car about 100 feet into the Denny's parking lot and shut it off. The engine was never started between that time and when the body work was completed (2 months). When he pulled into Denny's, he said the engine was making noise. I figured it was because one of the motor mounts was torn or becuase the engine was vibrating against the intake. So, yes, there was evidence of a problem at that point. Just in case there was a problem, I didn't want to start the car and possibly cause more damage than was already done.

As for over revving... he was travelling down a 30 MPH road. He was going 35 MPH max. Unless it jumped from 4th into 1st, I don't see how it could over-rev.

I appreciate all the replies. I am passing them all on to my brother, who is headed back to the dealership now.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

OK, so 30 MPH in 4th gear...what, about 2000 RPM? Then the wheels (and tranny, and the entire rest of the car) came to a dead halt in a few miliseconds. Couple of pistons on the way down with a fair amount of speed when the crank simply stops rotating...something has to give.

Again, probably not helping, but just throwing out speculation.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Remember the gears are strait in a line. It wouldn't take too hard of a shot to skip some cogs.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

tdi engine and tranny on auction on ebay now (current bid $1,500):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2440572146&category=33615

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Well, here's the deal: My bro talked to the owner of the body shop. The owner of the body shop talked to the service manager at the dealership. Apparently, the service manager was a real a-hole on the phone. He got so pissed at the service manager that he's going to have the car towed to another dealership and pay for the whole engine job. The body shop is then going to go after the insurance company for the money. They are not going to use that dealership again.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

Good for you. /images/graemlins/cool.gif Sell it afterwards.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

McBrew, Would you mind posting the name of that dealership for the benefit of others here...

Glad to hear the bodyshop is taking some initiative.

PS: Don't you just hate it when they remind you that 5 stars is the only passing rating.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

I want to see these rods!

Unless this car had a runaway from oil ingestion it's not possible.

Sounds like the dealer is full of $[censored] here.

Its a fact all TDI's are governed by the ECU to 5100 rpm. Go out and put teh pedal all the way to the floor in neutral...the car cannot under any circumstances with the engine running under the ECU's control rev beyond 5100. If the engine's speed cannot be controlled the ECU kills the fuel shut off selenoid, thats a fact.

I think the dealer was getting creative since they heard the word "Insurance company" mentioned.

DB

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

[ QUOTE ]
Drivbiwire said:
I
I think the dealer was getting creative since they heard the word "Insurance company" mentioned.

DB

[/ QUOTE ]
There you go.

Help! VW can\'t fix engine after accident.

DB, if we possibly can, we'll get hold of any take-off parts. I know it doesn't show much, but for amusement, here's a photo of the car at the dealership now: