Not happy until you're unhappy -- that's VW

Greeted by fast flashing dash lights and rapid-fire clicking sound but no starter sound or engine start up as I turned the key a day ago. First time I've ever been let down my car so it was a bit of a shock. Big thank you to Peter (Pharoah TDI) who accurately diagnosed (over the phone) a bad battery as the cause.

Battery was only two years old. I was expecting a much longer life out of it, considering the previous battery which was original with the car, lasted almost 15 years.

What a crappy experience I had at the Barrie VW dealer. Absolutely no credit or warranty coverage as it comes with one year or 20,000 km. They obviously don't have a lot of confidence in their batteries, either. They didn't even want to test my old battery but when I asked if they would take back the new battery if it wasn't the cause of the problem and they said no, they eventually did the load test, which it failed.

Very glitzy, Taj Mahal-like dealership. Obviously moving upscale in a big way. Too bad their customer service sucks so bad.

I also don't understand why VW's return policy won't refund your money if you return a product that's not defective. They claimed it was because it's an electrical product. Doesn't seem to stop Lowes, Home Depot, Canadian Tire and many other retailers from accepting returns on good electrical products.

VW -- Not happy until you're unhappy.

Yup- that is the standard warranty and the main reason I wouldn't buy a dealer battery. The replacements you get are the same as one of the "aftermarket" suppliers anyway. Might as well get the better warranty. Some dealers even offer aftermarket batteries for the warranty.

They can't sell you a battery and then restock it as new... it doesn't work like that. Not sure about vw but I work at Honda and our batteries that are bought over the counter have a limited warranty as well, don't remember the exact period but i'm pretty sure it's a year, as I know for certain that brand new cars with original batteries are only covered under full warranty for 2 years... so it's not just vw

I can see your frustration, but you are essentially asking the dealership to allow you to use their battery for the purpose of diagnosing your car when you asked them if you could return the battery.

I wouldn't allow that in any service dept I have run. You would be attempting to return a (albeit lightly) used part.

In addition to that, you can easily damage a battery in a way that it will greatly reduce the life expectancy. Therefore, returning it is a liability that no one shroud be expect acted to take. I'm not sure if CT or Walmart will take back a battery either.
Also, there is a good chance something besides your battery is defective. Batteries almost never just die over night without something draining them. So might want to take the car to someone that knows what they are doing before you wipe out the new battery too.

When the battery on my '06 went, it went slowly over the course of the summer.

And am I the only one who thinks it's more than a little ironic that while battery warranties are pitifully short, there is this massive (apparent) progress in all-electric vehicles? If they have all-electric cars with batteries which last five to 10 years, why don't they offer better warranties on ICE batteries?

Battery technology has advanced for ICE cars as well. Look up AGM batteries. They are expensive, but you get what you pay for most of the time.

Get a Motomaster Eliminator battery if you want a warranty. 4 Years Free replacement.

Muggins said:

What a crappy experience I had at the Barrie VW dealer. Absolutely no credit or warranty coverage as it comes with one year or 20,000 km.

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I tried to exchange a 3 month old dealer battery after it failed to start my TDI on a cold morning. Worked fine at -15 one day but could barely turn the engine at -22 the next day. They refused because it passed a load test in a warm shop. They don't even honor their crappy warranty.

Simon

P2B said:

I tried to exchange a 3 month old dealer battery after it failed to start my TDI on a cold morning. Worked fine at -15 one day but could barely turn the engine at -22 the next day. They refused because it passed a load test in a warm shop. They don't even honor their crappy warranty.
Simon

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It's not as simple as you think... There's a whole process for claiming warranty but I won't bother getting into it... Either way it sucks but it is what it is

P2B said:

I tried to exchange a 3 month old dealer battery after it failed to start my TDI on a cold morning. Worked fine at -15 one day but could barely turn the engine at -22 the next day. They refused because it passed a load test in a warm shop. They don't even honor their crappy warranty.

Simon

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Ever thought that maybe the problem isn't the battery then? Load testing a battery in a warm shop makes no difference, if it holds a load in the shop, it will hold a load in the cold too. A worn bushing on the starter will make like miserable when the weather gets cold and so will internally corroded wires.

I recently replaced the 8 year old Delco battery in my '02 Century with another Delco battery. I still have my old Auto XRay with a Midtronics battery tester adapter which said it was time to replace the battery. The new battery has a 30 month free replacement and I've never had a problem with the dealer honoring the Delco warranty.

GM dealers warranty the battery in their new cars under whatever the B2B is for the line. For example, Chevy is 3/36 while Cadillac is 4/50.

Canadian Tire has two batteries applicable to my TDI, including an Eliminator with 3-year free replacement warranty and $5 cheaper than the VW OE battery I bought. Because OE of course is superior

Muggins said:

Canadian Tire has two batteries applicable to my TDI, including an Eliminator with 3-year free replacement warranty and $5 cheaper than the VW OE battery I bought. Because OE of course is superior

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So now you know, go with a CT battery... Nobody ever said OE is always superior to aftermarket...

imo000 said:

Ever thought that maybe the problem isn't the battery then? Load testing a battery in a warm shop makes no difference, if it holds a load in the shop, it will hold a load in the cold too. A worn bushing on the starter will make like miserable when the weather gets cold and so will internally corroded wires.

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I was at the cottage and needed to leave, so I pulled the battery and put it beside the wood stove for a couple of hours. It was still -22 out but the car started just fine with a warm battery, so I'm of the opinion the battery was the problem and passing a warm load test doesn't mean a battery will work when cold.
Simon

Electrons slow down in the cold too

^ technically the electrons speed up.

It's the battery chemistry that slows down.

P2B said:

I was at the cottage and needed to leave, so I pulled the battery and put it beside the wood stove for a couple of hours. It was still -22 out but the car started just fine with a warm battery, so I'm of the opinion the battery was the problem and passing a warm load test doesn't mean a battery will work when cold.
Simon

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You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you. If a battery passes a load test in the warm then the battery is good (in the cold or in the warm) and the problem is elsewhere. The fact that you had to warm up the battery means your car needs more amps than a good battery can provide when it's cold. SO, you have a problem somewhere else in the starting system. More often than not, this is either caused by a worn started bushing or a corroded cable between the starter and the battery.

imo000 said:

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you. If a battery passes a load test in the warm then the battery is good (in the cold or in the warm) and the problem is elsewhere. The fact that you had to warm up the battery means your car needs more amps than a good battery can provide when it's cold. SO, you have a problem somewhere else in the starting system. More often than not, this is either caused by a worn started bushing or a corroded cable between the starter and the battery.

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I understand, I'm just not convinced.
I had serviced the starter, cleaned the grounds, and inspected the cables in the fall when replacing the battery. After the dealer said the new battery was good I swapped batteries with the wagon for the rest of the winter - problem stayed with the battery, not the car.
I have had two enertec batteries that just seemed to hit a wall at around -20. They go from cranking plenty fast enough to start to barely turning the engine at all when the temperature drops just a few more degrees. In my experience that's not how a worn starter behaves, they tend to get slower gradually as the temperature drops.
Simon

Ok. So seems that battery has less CCA than it should. This battery is rated for the TDI? Still not a load test issue.

imo000 said:

Ok. So seems that battery has less CCA than it should. This battery is rated for the TDI? Still not a load test issue.

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Same part number as the factory battery that never failed to start the car for 12 years in temperatures down to -28.

Simon

Glad I was able to help but too bad it was the battery. I guess OEM quality is not what it used to be.

P2B said:

Same part number as the factory battery that never failed to start the car for 12 years in temperatures down to -28.

Simon

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Sounds like the CCA rating was decreased from the original product.
You must have been really lucky to start a TDI in -28C. The planets all lined up.

imo000 said:

Sounds like the CCA rating was decreased from the original product.
You must have been really lucky to start a TDI in -28C. The planets all lined up.

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Well to be fair I've started my tdi in those temps too so it's not uncommon, just harder that's all

2.2TDI said:

Well to be fair I've started my tdi in those temps too so it's not uncommon, just harder that's all

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Without any additional heater elements (block, coolant, battery), in -28C or lower?

I've got mine going in as low as -25C but strange things start to happen below -25.

First real test of the CT AGM battery today, car had been sitting in the cold at the cottage since before xmas, scangauge said coolant temp was -24C. Took a long crank but started no problem.
Simon

Both my OE batteries I got from the dealer this year worked well so far.

P2B said:

First real test of the CT AGM battery today, car had been sitting in the cold at the cottage since before xmas, scangauge said coolant temp was -24C. Took a long crank but started no problem.
Simon

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Need a new battery for my car, dropping down to 8v on loads - wouldn't start this am, but my programmable timer didn't turn on this am.
Are you happy with the CT battery? Can you let me know which one you got?

Thanks,

Aaron

2ManyKMfor1Tank said:

Need a new battery for my car, dropping down to 8v on loads - wouldn't start this am, but my programmable timer didn't turn on this am.
Are you happy with the CT battery? Can you let me know which one you got?

Thanks,

Aaron

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It's only the first winter for this battery, but no issues so far, cranks nice and fast below -20C. This one:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...gm-automotive-batteries-0103420p.0109420.html

All dimensions are identical to the OE battery, fuse panel on top evens fits properly. It's a much better deal on sale, regular price is a bit steep.

Simon

Thank you, Simon.

I've been considering a super capacitor bank as an addon so I don't get stranded in the cold ever again myself. If you check out youtube, a super cap bank will start the car on it's own, but it's dubious if it could run the glowplugs and have enough left over.

Boost cap sells an engine start module (their name for a super cap battery) for big transport trucks but the price is not really worth it, however the diy thing is enough for our needs. If I ever do it, i'll post here for sure.